Stick-on Wheel Weights..........another view

[KYCaster]

I've broken this into parts because of the length. Please bear with me, I do have a point to make and I think some conclusions you might find interesting.

There's been a lot of discussion lately about wheel weight alloys and changes being made in the industry that could have serious effects on the way we collect and use boolit making materials. Most of the opinions offered have been based on subjective tests such as how the sample sounds when its dropped on concrete, or how much it will bend without breaking.

Over the years I have had no problem getting repeatable weight and hardness useing easily obtainable materials, mainly wheel weights, linotype, solder, plumbing and roofing materials, the same things all of us scrounge on a daily basis to make our hobby ( in my case, also a part time business ) more affordable. And the composition of my alloys has been confirmed by chemical analysis on several occasions.

Until recently I've not been too concerned with what the WW looked like, they all went into the smelter together. But now you guys have made me think about it ( I know, that's not a good thing ).

First I started separating the stick on weights. After all, everybody knows they're pure lead and with more alloy wheels out there I'm finding more stick ons so if I remove them I should have a more consistent alloy. Weeellllll........that's OK if you're talking about a bucket or two, but when you have a couple of 55gal. drums to sort through it can be quite a chore!

So I set out to see exactly how much all this work was improving my alloy. The factory I used to work at shut down a few years ago so I no longer have access to FREE chem. analysis, so I had to do it another way.

First I sorted through about eighty pounds of stick on weights and identified sixteen different distinct types, some with drasticly different charictaristics. I took a representative sample from each type and cleaned them in solvent to remove dirt, backing and adhesives. I weighed them and then weighed them again while suspended in water to determine their specific gravity.

Results of the testing in another post...........

I'll be right back.............Jerry

[PatMarlin]

Hurry up Jerry... I'm still waiting. :mrgreen:

[KYCaster]

When we left our hero he was sinking fast in a vat of molt............uh, sorry, I'll get the point.

I determined the specific gravity of the various types of stick on weights and compared them with the specific gravity of the metals we commonly use in our casting to try to determine the composition of the samples. I think the results are very enlightening.

SG of Lead = 11.3
Tin =7.31
Antimony = 6.69
Zinc = 7.14
97/2.5/.5(WW) = 11.16
92/6/2(Teracorp alloy) = 10.9
84/12/4(linotype) = 10.58

The SG of different weights varied from 11.5 to 10.77. There is obviously some error in my process because there's not likely to be anything heavier than Lead in common WW so my 11.5 is most likely wrong. But I think the results clearly show that there is a wide variety of alloys used in making stick on weights, everything from pure Lead to "Magnum Bullet Alloy".

In addition the the SG, I cast an ingot from the most dense and the least dense of the weights and after a week to age I checked the hardness with a Cabine Tree hardness tester. The most dense sample checked the same as pure lead and the most dense tested the same as 92/6/2 alloy.

Referring to the pic below, there doesn't seem to be any way to ID the alloys by appearence. The piece second from the left, marked 25g is the hardest of the lot and the least dense at 10.77SG. It appears to be cast with a radius on the back to fit the wheel and with a flat top. The one on the far left also appears to be cast with the radius on the back and flat on the front but it's one of the more dense ones at 11.11SG.

The weight second from the right with different sized sections was one of the less dense samples but another weight, very similar in appearance was one of the more dense. The weight at the top left ( the most dense of the bunch ) and the one at the bottom right are very nearly the same SG but the top one was much harder to bend ( go figger ).

Most of the weights that appeared to be roll stamped were in the more dense group, but there was one exception. It was the same width and thickness as the others but was very lightly scored at regular intervals and had no markings to indicate the weight.

Of the sixteen types, eight were in the range of 11.5 ( pure Lead ) to 11.11 ( standard WW alloy ) and the remaining eight were between 10.77 and 10.97. ( Teracorp alloy )

My conclusions?.......I dunno.......I've raised as many questions as I've answered, but it seems to me sorting wheel weights is an exercise in futility. I think I'll just melt 'em all, let somebody else sort 'em out.

Thanks for listening...........Jerry

[PatMarlin]

Awe schuks... I coulda done that with my fingernail.. :mrgreen:

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Jerry,

Do I hear you saying "Much ado about nothing" or is that just my imagination?

Regards,

Dave

[boogerred]

ive often wondered that myself.i dont have the brains or equipment to do a test like you did.with my rudimentary methods(bend and break,hammer and nail,shave with a knife) i havent been able to tell much of a difference.and then i think:why would anybody in our modern,throw-away world be so concerned with an exact formula for an easily replacable,throw-away carpart? it just does not make sense to me to expect a wheelweight manufacturer to stick to a precise formula every time they cast a new batch of WWs.the money is just not there for them to be so exact with something that may get lost on the side of the road. and,besides,whos gonna know?

[Bigjohn]

There are not too many of us "Casters" with a lab full of equipment capable of telling us what percentages of lead/tin/antinomy are in each manufacturers batches of wheelweight nor could the individual afford to have their metal analyized. So I gather from all that has been said is "Each of us to use our own methods of sorting or smelting and make a batch big enough to last sometime."

I have since I joined this group seen some of what I would describe as MAMMOTH Casting and Smelting equipment. Makes my LEE 10 pounder seem inadequate.
I would challenge any member of this forum to invent a 'Fool-proof' method of analyizing the precentages in their 'mix' without a lab on standby. We are after all one of the ultimate recyclers and rarely start with clean fresh metal of known quality/quanity. Well that's my two cents worth. Thank you.

[Bret4207]

IIRC the issue with the stick ons was: Do they have metal in them that will corrupt our mix. IOW, if I add stick ons will it make my mix unusable and I'll lose the whole batch? So far from the few I've used the answer is- No. OTOH, many other guys report finding weird zinc-like dross or that the flow characteristics are all messed up and no amount of tim seems to help.

Good post. This deserves more investigation.

[Dale53]

I have, for many, many years, done what others on here have done. I smelt a large batch of ww's and cast them in ingots. I try to mix an alloy fairly close to what I need for a particular purpose. I Keep each pot full (RCBS 20 pounder) of bullets segregated through the entire process (lube, size, box, and load). I really don't care if each batch is "exactly" the same, as long as I don't try to shoot different batches on the same target.

This "method" seems to work and work well.

However, in case someone thinks that I am ignoring KYCaster's post, you couldn't be more wrong. Now, I don't have to run the same test and I am greatful to KYCaster for his information. I will no longer try to cull out the stick on weights. I WILL keep my eye out for ZINC, however. Thanks for sharing with us, KYCaster. This is the type of information that makes this such a great asset (Cast Boolits).

Dale53

[John Boy]

Caster: Tape-A-Weight brand WW's have the following composition:
0.377% Sb
1.45% Sn
0.029% As
98..144% Pb

National Institute of Standards and Technology reference standards as well as other NIST traceable standards were used to analyze this sample

[D.Mack]

Apearantly the wierd one's haven't made it to the whole country, But they are here,and probably here to stay. In My last bucket of stick-ons were a bunch(about 10 pounds) of very hard, untwistable, wieghts that that continued to float after everything else had melted, and reached a fluidity, where I was ready to make ingots, so I dont care what they are, I'm chucking them, and checking for them in the future before they go in the big pot. My knife wouldn't dent them, just a hair line scratch, (forget my finger nail) and they will not twist, they will bend along the serrations, but will not twist. I probably should mention, they came from a dealer who does a lot of foriegn car work. I dont know if they might have come over on the cars new, or were put on here, but I have a life time supply of them. DM

[BAGTIC]

I don't shoot the stick on lead. I just melt it down and use it to cast 'split shot' for fishing. Makes life much simpler.

[Cherokee]

Interesting post. My routine is if it doesn't melt at low temp, pitch it.

[Maj Tom]

Jerry, et all,
I’ve done about the same as you. I too came to the conclusion that there is so much variability in the composition of wheel weights that there are two basic alternatives. Separate them by manufacturer and type and go from there or just smelt them in large quantities to achieve a good average. I have gone the later. I smelt WW in about 100lb lots. When I want bullet metal I take 5lbs of tin, 10lbs of foundry metal (64, 24, 12) and the remaining WW ingots. In my smelter this makes about 100lbs of alloy. I find that the variations are a couple of tenths in weight (good indicator for hardness). The majority of the time I get a 200gr mould (Lyman #2) to drop between 199 and 201….. My bottom line is mix all the WW and smelt in large batches and it all works out based on the averages that the tire shop gets in…. I prefer to make two batches and verify the as cast weight and then determine adjustments. Make the adjustments to each batch and then mix the two. This give enough metal to drop about 7000 bullets. Just my penny and a half…..