Anneal before or after making 358 from 7.62?

[AnthonyB]

Fellas, last night I necked up fifty LC 03 7.62 brass into 358 Winchester, using an 8mm expander as the first step. I lost one case in the process. I have never annealed a case before and planned to do so after resizing. Should I have annealed the brass first? Allopinions welcomed. Tony

[Bass Ackward]

Fellas, last night I necked up fifty LC 03 7.62 brass into 358 Winchester, using an 8mm expander as the first step. I lost one case in the process. I have never annealed a case before and planned to do so after resizing. Should I have annealed the brass first? Allopinions welcomed. Tony


Anthony,

I do. And I take em up in one step. I .... can't remember ever losing a case.

[felix]

Tony, the expander should be gentle, and not abrupt. The expander I have in mind is the one that looks like a continuous cone for the most part. Military cases should be soft enough up front as not to crack at all with any kind of up-sizing, unless the cases are stretched to all hell as can happen in auto guns. Just to be inquisitive, try another lot to see what's going on. Yes, you can always anneal to get rid of the crack, but do so BEFORE the up-sizing. ... felix

[NVcurmudgeon]

Tony, what others said is right on. Also, when forming a case from another with the same nominal headspace, don't just full length resize and think all is well. the last bunch of .35 Whelen cases I formed from .270 (same nominal headspace) wound up with shoulders set back far enough to cause misfires. Better to form cases with a crush fit.

[sundog]

Tony, I used new LCNM 78 '06 cases to make 35 Whelen. A little lube in and out, one pass through a 35 Whelen die, and they were ready to go. Haven't lost any.

When that gun was still new I had one over zealous range buddy wanting to shoot it, and before I knew it he had loaded AND SHOT one of my '06 mil bolt rounds for an 03 (cast boolit). Result is that I have one extra piece of 35 Whelen brass if I should lose one.

You gonna shoot some of those 358009 Imp boolits? sundog

[Slowpoke]

Fellas, last night I necked up fifty LC 03 7.62 brass into 358 Winchester, using an 8mm expander as the first step. I lost one case in the process. I have never annealed a case before and planned to do so after resizing. Should I have annealed the brass first? Allopinions welcomed. Tony

Hi Tony

No opinion here, just the facts :)

I use the Hornady .358 win die set, it has a nice tapered expander made for necking up .308's.

I have never annealed a case before necking up and I have never lost a case to date in the process.

I have used just about every brand of case that's out there over the years.

For the first firing I pick a mid range load and seat the bullet to touch the lands and the case forms beautifully to my chamber.

From then on I partial size only, and my BLR just gobbles them up, never a problem for umpteen loadings and then they get recycled and become 45acp shotshell cases.

Good luck

[JSH]

Somtimes annealing before you size works, somtimes not.
if you have never annealed before don't get to over zeleous with the heat. All you want to anneal is what you are going to want to move in the way of the case.

I have two different ways that i do it and both work well for me, it just depends on what case I am doing.
Somtimes I will stand them up in a pan of water that is just to the point I want to anneal. When I think they are hot enough I just tip them over to quench.
The other way I do it, mostly on large batches is to get a bucket of water. Get your torch out and just heat the neck a bit a drop into the bucket. I don't know how to describe it but I go as much by the sound of the case hitting the water as i do the color.
This last method may be a bit more fool proof than some others. If the case gets hot enough that it burns your fingers you are getting them a bit to hot.
Also I may say that you will want to keep the mouth of the case pointed up sot that the heat rises in that direction rather than any chance of the heeat getting towards the base, which you don't want.
Felix can describe it way better than I can.
Jeff

[drinks]

I fireform, 4.5gr Universal, tissue wad, case of corn meal, tissue wad and bang!
I also hold the case in my fingers to anneal, guarantees you will not overheat the case!

[AnthonyB]

Great info all around, and I appreciate the input. I thought I had a pretty good handle on this simple conversion, and your posts have confirmed most of what I thought. The expander balls were all the cone shaped tapered kind from Hornady(8mm) and Redding(356/358 Winchester) dies. I'll anneal using the "hold the case and drop method" and expect that will result in cases that last almost forever. I'll headspace on the boolit for the first firing and neck size from there.

Yep, finally gonna try the 358009I in the 356. I made a test round and the boolit will feed from the magazine, but must be seated deep of course. I think that one at 1800 will be all I or any animal in the U.S. can take! I'm gonna take a month of leave before heading overseas and hope to finish several other projects in that time. The kids have shot more than me in the last year and I need to catch up! Tony

[BBA]

I load for a BLR and the problem I run into is stuck cases in the die getting milt. brass to FL resize small enough to fit the chamber. The brass is mostly LC brass and will go thru a standard 308 die but not a small base die. Is there any way to anneal the base??

[bruce drake]

BBA,

You don't want to anneal the base because annealing is a softening of the brass and you don't want the plug holding 50K of pressurized hot gas from your face being softened. The cartridge head (the base) has to stay as it is. The annealing process is for the ends of the cartridge where the brass is thinner and needs to stay soft and not become work-hardened.

Sounds like either you have a small chamber in your BLR or the LC brass was fired in a weapon with a large chambered barrel that allowed the brass casing to expand to where it is hard for you to resize.

There are swage dies on the market that will reform your cartridge heads back to spec. It may be easier for you to use some known good brass instead. If you are forming 6.5 JAP from 308 winchester brass (.473 diameter squeezed down to .447 you would probably justify the expense of picking up one of those dies.

Bruce

[felix]

DO NOT ANNEAL THE BOTTOM HALF OF THE CASE! Keep that lower-than-50-percent-area less than 150 degrees. If you can't hold it when torching the neck, that is hot enough. ... felix

[fourarmed]

A rule I have heard is "Anneal before you neck up, anneal after you neck down." I followed this rule when necking .357 max cases down to .270, and lost more than 10% to cracked necks. Maybe I have the rule wrong.

[35Whelen]

I load for a BLR and the problem I run into is stuck cases in the die getting milt. brass to FL resize small enough to fit the chamber. The brass is mostly LC brass and will go thru a standard 308 die but not a small base die. Is there any way to anneal the base??

I know this is an old post....but lately I have been using Anhydrous lanolin cream and the Lanolin Oil for necking up and sizing. Amazing stuff. Sometimes I wonder if I even necked up a .308 to .358....its so buttery smooth. So this might work on the body of the cases you're having trouble sizing back to spec. Try it, you might be pleasantly surprised. Just don't overdo the amount of lube or you'll get dents of course.

[nicholst55]

Brass that has been fired in a machine gun (assuming we're talking 7.62 NATO here) can be sized by first sizing it in a .30-06 FL die body (only). Remove the decapping stem first, then size the brass. Next, size it in a .308 FL die. It should chamber in most anything now. You may also try sizing it in a .308 FL die, lower the ram, rotate the brass 180 degrees, and size it again.