Garand Functioning Issue

[BruceB]

So, I bought a gorgeous Garand last weekend at the Big Reno Show. The stock is absolutely unblemished and finished in a reddish varnish-like material, quite glossy.

I've owned maybe half-a-dozen Garands over the last thirty years or so, but this one puts them all in the shade.

The barrel is a Danish "VAR", dated 5/61, and its condition is excellent.

Everything seems to work properly, EXCEPT that a full clip of eight rounds is difficult to seat in the receiver, and once latched, the first round is VERY difficult to feed into the chamber.

The bolt releases properly, and stops when it strikes the base of the top round. It then needs five or six repeated impacts from the bolt before the round releases and feeds into the chamber. During this process, the round moves forward a bit with each strike from the bolt, until it finally moves into the chamber. After this, the rifle fires and functions normally and ejects the empty clip as-designed.

If I start with only seven rounds in the clip, it loads easily and chambers the first round correctly.

This is a new malfunction to me, not having arisen in my prior ownership of M1 rifles. Anyone out there have any suggestions? Perhaps if the stock is non-original it might be cramping things a bit? Latching pressure on the trigger group seems about normal.

Any input is appreciated.

[StarMetal]

So, I bought a gorgeous Garand last weekend at the Big Reno Show. The stock is absolutely unblemished and finished in a reddish varnish-like material, quite glossy.

I've owned maybe half-a-dozen Garands over the last thirty years or so, but this one puts them all in the shade.

The barrel is a Danish "VAR", dated 5/61, and its condition is excellent.

Everything seems to work properly, EXCEPT that a full clip of eight rounds is difficult to seat in the receiver, and once latched, the first round is VERY difficult to feed into the chamber.

The bolt releases properly, and stops when it strikes the base of the top round. It then needs five or six repeated impacts from the bolt before the round releases and feeds into the chamber. During this process, the round moves forward a bit with each strike from the bolt, until it finally moves into the chamber. After this, the rifle fires and functions normally and ejects the empty clip as-designed.

If I start with only seven rounds in the clip, it loads easily and chambers the first round correctly.

This is a new malfunction to me, not having arisen in my prior ownership of M1 rifles. Anyone out there have any suggestions? Perhaps if the stock is non-original it might be cramping things a bit? Latching pressure on the trigger group seems about normal.

Any input is appreciated.

Bruce,

Go here as the guy has the exact same problem as you:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260292

Joe

[BruceB]

Joe;

That may be the most-valuable (and QUICKEST!) information I've ever gotten from folks on this Board.

It sure seems like a similar situation, and it most definitely gives me a place to start.

And, you had this right at your fingertips....how???

Many thanks.

(Incidentally, the rifle fires and functions just fine with the BobS load, 311284 with 41.0 H4831. Curmudgeon and I gave it a workout all the way out to 400 yards on steel gongs today.)

[StarMetal]

Joe;

That may be the most-valuable (and QUICKEST!) information I've ever gotten from folks on this Board.

It sure seems like a similar situation, and it most definitely gives me a place to start.

And, you had this right at your fingertips....how???

Many thanks.

(Incidentally, the rifle fires and functions just fine with the BobS load, 311284 with 41.0 H4831. Curmudgeon and I gave it a workout all the way out to 400 yards on steel gongs today.)

Bruce,

First off you're most welcome. I like you so I wanted to help you. I've gotten pretty good using the internet search engines. Let's hope that is what's wrong with it.

You have a fine specimen there so let's get it working properly.

Joe

[Bob S]

Bruce:

The symptoms you describe would be perfectly normal for a new or freshly overhauled and reparkerized rifle: the phosphate coating on the sliding surfaces needs to be "broken in". All of the cal. .30 M1's and 7.62 Mk2-1's that came out of stores at Crane behaved the same way until they were broken in. I have a Mk2-1 that has about 200 rounds through it, about half of that rapid fire from clips, and it still takes some effort to seat the clip, and the op rod needs a "bump" to get it to strip and chamber the first round. On the other hand, my heavy McCoy match rifles seem to want to load themselves. :D

Some foreign clips, noteably the Danish and Greek, have some dimensional variations and extra-thick phosphate coatings, and and can make seating a full clip very difficult or impossible. I deep-six all the foreign clips I come across, since I have a bushel basket of real US ones. Even with the US ones, when the M1 was the only Service Rifle on the firing line, we would wire brush our clips to remove most of the phosphate coating: that would help smooth the reloading process for the rapid fire stages of the National Match Course. I even have some that were chrome plated by a friend that worked at the Columbia Bicycle plant in West Springfield 40 years ago.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[zomby woof]

M1 Garand Stoppage/Malfunction, Cause, Action/Remedy – Based on US Army FM 23-5, TM 9-1005-222-35 & TM 9-1275
Page 1 of 2
Nicolaus Associates: http://www.nicolausassociates.com/
Stoppage/Malfunction
Probable Cause
Action/Remedy
Failure to feed ammunition.
• Lack of lubrication of operating parts.
• Defective or worn parts.
• Short recoil.
• Clean and lubricate parts.
• Replace parts.
• See ‘short recoil’ under stoppage/malfunction list.
Failure to chamber ammunition.
• Lack of lubrication of operating parts.
• Dirty chamber.
• Defective ammunition.
• Clean and lubricate parts.
• Clean chamber.
• Replace ammunition.
Failure to lock bolt.
• Lack of lubrication of operating parts.
• Dirty chamber.
• Dirty locking recesses.
• Weak op rod spring.
• Clean and lubricate parts.
• Clean chamber.
• Clean recesses.
• Replace op rod spring.
Failure to fire ammunition.
• Defective ammunition.
• Defective firing pin.
• Defective trigger housing group.
• Replace ammunition.
• Replace firing pin.
• Repair trigger housing group.
Failure to unlock bolt.
• Dirty chamber.
• Lack of lubrication of operating parts.
• Insufficient gas.
• Follower arm pin worn.
• Follower arm bent or out of tolerance.
• Clean chamber.
• Clean and lubricate parts.
• Tighten gas cylinder lock screw, and/or clean or replace worn parts.
• Replace follower arm pin; verify pin hole diameter.
• Replace follower arm.
Failure to extract spent cartridge case.
• Dirty chamber.
• Defective ammunition.
• Broken extractor.
• Clean chamber.
• Replace ammunition.
• Replace extractor.
Failure to eject cartridge case.
• Broken ejector or spring.
• Short recoil.
• Replace ejector or spring.
• See ‘short recoil’ under stoppage/malfunction list.
Failure to cock hammer.
• Defective trigger housing group.
• Short recoil.
• Repair trigger-housing group.
• See ‘short recoil’ under stoppage/malfunction list.
Cartridge clip inserts with difficulty.
• Deformed cartridge clip.
• Broken clip ejector.
• Interference between bullet guide and follower arm.
• Replace.
• Replace.
• Replace bullet guide or follower arm.
Short recoil (op rod does not fully cycle).
• Undersized or out of round op rod piston.
• Oversized gas cylinder.
• Undersized barrel at gas port.
• Carbon in gas cylinder.
• Carbon or foreign matter in gas port of barrel.
• Op rod assembly binding.
• Leak in gas cylinder lock screw with valve.
• Defective op rod spring.
• Bolt binding.
• Distorted or damaged receiver.
• Replace op rod assembly.
• Replace.
• Rebarrel firearm.
• Clean.
• Clean.
• Replace op rod assembly if damaged, or relieve wood from gun stock assembly, where op rod binds on wood.
• Replace gas cylinder look screw with valve.
• Replace op rod spring.
• Remove burs from bolt.
• Repair or replace receiver.
Bolt fails to close tightly.
• Extractor does not open enough to pass over rim of cartridge.
• Op rod assembly binding.
• Weak or broken op rod spring.
• Rust or dirt in chamber.
• Damaged cartridge, or frozen ejector.
• Damaged/deformed bolt and/or receiver
• Insufficient headspace.
• Clean bolt assembly.
• Replace op rod or relieve wood from stock assembly where op rod binds on wood.
• Replace op rod spring.
• Clean barrel chamber.
• Repair or replace ejector.
• Replace bolt or receiver.
• Replace bolt assembly by selective fit or headspace.
M1 Garand Stoppage/Malfunction, Cause, Action/Remedy – Based on US Army FM 23-5, TM 9-1005-222-35 & TM 9-1275
Page 2 of 2
Nicolaus Associates: http://www.nicolausassociates.com/
Stoppage/Malfunction
Probable Cause
Action/Remedy
Bolt does not release when clip is latched.
• Insufficient radii or burs on op rod catch or op rod hooks.
• Bullet guide low at accelerator bearing point.
• Repair or replace op rod catch or op rod assembly.
• Replace bullet guide.
Bolt releases before clip is latched.
• Worn or broken clip latch.
• Worn or broken clip latch spring.
• Excessive radii on op rod catch or op rod assembly
• Bullet guide high at accelerator bearing point.
• Replace clip latch.
• Replace clip latch spring.
• Replace op rod catch or op rod assembly.
• Replace bullet guide.
Premature cartridge clip ejection.
• Worn cartridge clip detents.
• Weak clip latch spring.
• Worn clip latch.
• Bent follower rod.
• Worn follower rod forks.
• Worn or deformed op rod catch.
• Worn follower arm.
• Follower rod rubs on op rod catch.
• Replace cartridge clip.
• Replace clip latch spring.
• Replace clip latch.
• Replace follower rod.
• Replace follower rod.
• Replace op rod catch.
• Replace follower arm.
• Replace follower rod, clip latch, or op rod catch.
Bolt fails to be held rearward after firing last round of clip and clip held inside of rifle jammed by bolt.
• Bolt does not move sufficiently rearward.
• Binding clip latch.
• Arm or op rod catch bent or deformed.
• See ‘short recoil’ under stoppage/malfunction list.
• Replace clip latch.
• Replace op rod assembly.
Failure to eject spent cartridge case.
• Low power, causing short recoil.
• Weak, missing, or frozen ejector spring.
• Ejector binds.
• Short recoil.
• Correct ‘short recoil’ stoppage/malfunctions list.
• Replace ejector spring.
• Clean bolt ejector opening or remove burs from ejector.
• Clean gas port. Replace op rod assembly or helical spring.
Failure to eject cartridge clip.
• Clip ejector worn, weak, or broken.
• Op rod catch deformed or broken.
• Replace.
• Replace op rod catch.
Failure of bolt to open after firing.
• Plugged gas port.
• Loose gas cylinder.
• Barrel undersize at gas port area.
• Gas cylinder lock screw with valve fails to close.
• Clean gas port.
• Replace gas cylinder.
• Replace barrel.
• Replace gas cylinder lock screw with valve.
Failure to fire.
• Light indent on primer.
• Inadequate firing pin protrusion.
• Hammer spring housing damaged.
• Replace hammer spring.
• Replace firing pin.
• Replace hammer spring housing.
Pressure on trigger does not release hammer.
• Deformed trigger, pin, or hammer.
• Replace defective trigger, pin or hammer.
One or more live cartridges ejected with clip.
• Op rod assembly releases too soon when clip is inserted.
• Replace op rod catch and/or bullet guide.
Op rod assembly disen-gages from bolt while firing.
• Worn op rod lug or kinked op rod spring.
• Receiver op rod guide rail excessively worn.
• Replace op rod assembly or op rod spring.
• Replace receiver or rebuild receiver guide rail.
Slam fire or out of battery fire.
• Defective ammunition.
• Wrong ammunition.
• Incorrect barrel chamber dimensions (headspace).
• Replace.
• Replace.
• Properly headspace or rebarrel and headspace.

[BarryinIN]

I was going to suggest checking the op rod spring first, but it is in that Firing Line link.
Next, I was going to suggest checking over the assembly and condition of the components like the bullet guide, accelerator, etc, but that's in there too.
I am going to expand on those a bit, though.

I suspected the spring because there are so many places selling "extra power" or "extra speed" springs out there and telling everyone they had to have one that there is a good chance the rifle may have got one sometime in it's life. I don't like non-standard springs in anything, and think they can only lead to trouble...like this.
Checking for pieces of old broken spring, as mentioned at that site, isn't a bad idea either. I've seen them with broken springs, and they had been functioning fine that way, so the previous owner probably never knew about it and wouldn't have known to look for pieces.

As far as checking the magazine/feed componets: That is always a good place to look when odd things are happening. Looks can be deceiving- Some parts, like the bullet guide for example, look like they couldn't effect anything if worn or out of spec, but they can actually have a big effect. Some of these feed parts are pretty worn on a lot of rifles, and that is sometimes hard to see by just looking. These parts are usually relatively cheap, so I usually try to replace most of them if I replace any.

I mostly wanted to point out something else I saw in that thread.
There are posts in there giving examples of how the CMP works to make the customer happy. There are countless stories like that around. When Springfield Armory Inc (in IL) was selling new Garands again a few years ago, I heard a lot of people say they would rather have one of those than take a chance on an old CMP rifle that may be worn. They would often cite the fact the SA Inc rifle having a warranty while the CMP rifle didn't.
Knowing how the CMP bends over backwards to make customers happy, I haven't seen that a written warranty has been needed. They are really good people there.

Barry in IN, who likes Garands so much he used one in a cool-guy tactical carbine class full of AR15s this summer.

[C1PNR]

Hope all is now well with yours Bruce.

Whenever loading a new clip, I always "bump" the operation rod handle to assist the chambering of the first round. For me it's just habit, probably from boot camp.;) Sometimes the bolt has already closed and there's nothing to bump, but I still try.

[BruceB]

My apologies to all, for failing to acknowledge the valuable input received.

Starmetal Joe sent me a PM, inquiring about this rifle, so I figured I'd answer publicly for all to see.

The information certainly gives me a way to attack the problem, but I haven't had time to do anything with it as yet. I'm working a rotation that sees me leaving home at 0400 and returning at 1900....fifteen hours door-to-door. As you can imagine, this doesn't leave much time for anything but essentials....eat and sleep!

However, I did manage to put the rifle on paper the other day, loading seven rounds per clip. From 50 yards, 311284/41.0 H4831 puts the seven rounds into about 1.75" (average of three groups). Remington 150CL/46.0 H4895 made one 7-shot group of 3/4", but the other two groups were more scattered.

Still, the rifle is functioning, and I foresee a lot of experimentation ahead as well as the work needed to get that eight-round capacity back in service.

Thanks again for the help, and I'll keep y'all posted as I work through this.