Ruger .44-40 chamber diminsions?

[Yance]

A friend just bought a "new" (1993) Vaquero in .44-40 and brought it over for me to slug.

Cylinder will be sent to Cas after his Thanksgiving break as the throats mic .425". I'm also going to have to hand lap .002+" out of the forcing cone area where the barrel was torqued into the frame like my 1997 Bisley .45 Colt.

Cerrosafe cast of one of the chambers shows a neck diameter of .445" which to my way of thinkin' is about .005" undersize. This is almost identical to the chambers on his Cimarron Model P which will chamber factory ammo just fine, but handloads with .430 dia boolits won't chamber without running the neck portion back into the FL sizer die. NOT conducive to accuracy.

Is anyone having problems loading .429-.230 dia boolits for their Ruger .44-40? If not, what boolits and cases are you using?

TIA

[S.R.Custom]

What's the groove diameter on the barrel? Ruger's got a real bad habit of fitting .44 magnum dimensioned barrels to their .44WCF guns. That is to to say, barrels that measure .430+ inches.

And they're not the only ones. All the major MFRs seem to be doing the same thing, which is why I got out of the .44WCF business years ago. A .44WCF chamber simply will not let you chamber a bullet fat enough to get good accuracy from a barrel that big...

[Yance]

Yup, .429" just like the Cimarron.

The only "fix" would be a custom reamer dimensioned to cut a .451-.452 neck, allowing .010" wall thickness on the brass.

[S.R.Custom]

Yup, .429" just like the Cimarron.

The only "fix" would be a custom reamer dimensioned to cut a .451-.452 neck, allowing .010" wall thickness on the brass.

Yup. And possibly a custom set of dies depending upon how fat you have to go. And we're not even talking about rifles, yet.

Life's too short, and that's why I quit the 44-40 game. These days if I want to play with a period correct .44 caliber gun, it's the .44 Special.

[Yance]

No problem with the rifle.

He has Cimarron's 1873 Long Range and loads with the .430 boolits chamber fine and shoot GREAT!

Problem with something already chambered in .44-40 is there's not much you do about rechambering to a different cartridge. None of the .44's use a case that large in dia, and if you go into the 45's you're looking at a rebarrel too.

I'll stick to my .45 Colts.<G>

[S.R.Custom]

For what it's worth...

I've had success in the past with honing (not reaming) .44WCF chambers to work. But in your case that amounts to .007", and since Ruger cylinders are harder than the hinges on the gates of Hell, it takes a looooong time to do. If you paid me to do it, I'd have to charge by the hour and you'd swear I was stealing from you.

[Yance]

Went that route trying to "hone" the throats on my Bisley. LONG process which I royally screwed up. Throats wound up "hour glass" shaped.

Fortunately I won an auction for a .45 Colt Blackhawk fluted cylinder and promptly sent it to Cas upon it's arrival.

If I do my part it will now eat the center out of a B-8 target @ 25 yards. (Usually I DON'T do my part though.)

[S.R.Custom]

Went that route trying to "hone" the throats on my Bisley. LONG process which I royally screwed up. Throats wound up "hour glass" shaped.

Yeah, it's a tricky process. But if you've ever honed the cylinders of an engine block (and done it correctly), you know how to avoid the hour glass thing. But I won't do more than .003" with just a hone. More than that and you risk ending up with an oval hole. I only mentioned the honing in case you were the risk taking kind... :D

[targetshootr]

I opened the throats on my 44-40 Ruger cylinders and use the same 44 boolits for everything now. My problem is the 44-40 brass, it's too dern finicky.

[Harry O]

A friend just bought a "new" (1993) Vaquero in .44-40 and brought it over for me to slug.

Is anyone having problems loading .429-.230 dia boolits for their Ruger .44-40? If not, what boolits and cases are you using?

TIA

YES. I bought two of them back when they first came out and found out the same thing you did. The chambers (particularly the neck) were tight, the cylinder thoat was undersized, and the barrel was oversized (they used .44 Magnum barrels). I sent one of them back to Ruger twice. They replaced the cylinder the first time with another one that measured exactly the same. The second time, they did nothing and sent it back with a snotty letter telling me that if I want "custom" dimensions, I should go to a custom gunsmith. Besides, it met their manufacturing tolerances.

I sent it to a gunsmith who reamed out the chambers to standard size for 0.427" bullets (not large enough to chamber oversized bullets) and he reamed out the throat to match the barrel. He offered to either replace the barrel or machine the necks large enough to use 0.431" bullets, but that cost considerably more than the gun was worth. What he did, though, cut the size of the groups to 1/3 of what they had been before he worked on it. I ended up using 0.427" dead soft bullets that slug up in the throat/barrel when fired.

I was, and still am, totally disgusted with Ruger service.

I also have two 44-40 rifles (a Rossi and a Marlin) that also have oversized barrels. However, they were smart enough to make the throat large enough so that I can use 0.431" bullets. The only problem is that the case come out almost straight. The brass is worked a lot and doesn't last long.

[Bucks Owin]

I question Ruger on their dimensions sometimes too Harry O, but they have their "standards" and that's what they go by. I wish their .45 Blackhawk was dimensioned like a ".45 Linebaugh" but wouldn't expect them to customize my BH to his specs, that's not what they do. They do repairs, T-bar conversions and bluing. No reason to be mad at them. They still build a pretty good sixgun, just not like a Freedom Arms. They don't cost like one either! I expect the .44/40 Vaquero was "aimed" (:lol:) at the CAS crowd where gilt edged accuracy isn't much of a factor ......JMO, Dennis

[S.R.Custom]

...They still build a pretty good sixgun, just not like a Freedom Arms. They don't cost like one either!

Perhaps. And most days that's true.

On the other hand, they know full well a revolver with a .430" barrel and .425" chamber throats isn't going to shoot worth a damn. That's Llama quality there, and there's no excuse for it.

[jh45gun]

Ah other tales of Ruger at their finest. LOL NOT!

[targetshootr]

Rugers aren't custom guns and fortunately they aren't priced like them either. But you can't compare Ruger customer service with anyone elses. Some of the most expensive gunmakers will lighten your wallet every time you send it back, even when it's to correct a poor design. Example, Freedom Arms will charge you to install a replacable firing pin bushing which is standard issue on lowly Rugers. Or if your FA has a worn out forcing cone bushing, it's going to cost you the price of a whole new barrel installation... even though you spent four times as much for it as a Ruger.

[McLintock]

I had a couple of .357 cylinders hogged out to 44-40 for my set of Old Model Rugers in .44 Special, and they had .429 barrels installed. I told the gunsmith to put .429" throats in and figured I 'd use .429" bullets. With Remington brass it was a no-go, the neck thickness was too much and they wouldn't chamber very well and with black powder loads, after the first chamber full of rounds that would chamber, they wouldn't go in, period. I switched to Winchester brass and everythings good now, using a Lyman 429666 bullet (200 grs) sized to the .429 dimension. I've got one of the Cowboy "Big Lube" moulds and even with the bullets sized to .429, the different nose ogave curvature prevented me from using that bullet, even with the Winchester brass. Get the throats sized to .429 or .430 and use the Winchester brass and you should be OK.
McLintock

[jh45gun]

Rugers aren't custom guns and fortunately they aren't priced like them either. But you can't compare Ruger customer service with anyone elses. Some of the most expensive gunmakers will lighten your wallet every time you send it back, even when it's to correct a poor design. Example, Freedom Arms will charge you to install a replacable firing pin bushing which is standard issue on lowly Rugers. Or if your FA has a worn out forcing cone bushing, it's going to cost you the price of a whole new barrel installation... even though you spent four times as much for it as a Ruger.


Yea and folks that insist on sticking up for them even though they have to fix Rugers problems will just keep Ruger going on as usual instead of addressing the problem. If enough of you complained then maybe things would change for the better instead of all these threads on the gun forums saying what **** Ruger puts out on a steady basis.

[Harry O]

I question Ruger on their dimensions sometimes too Harry O, but they have their "standards" and that's what they go by. I wish their .45 Blackhawk was dimensioned like a ".45 Linebaugh" but wouldn't expect them to customize my BH to his specs, that's not what they do. They do repairs, T-bar conversions and bluing. No reason to be mad at them. They still build a pretty good sixgun, just not like a Freedom Arms. They don't cost like one either! I expect the .44/40 Vaquero was "aimed" (:lol:) at the CAS crowd where gilt edged accuracy isn't much of a factor ......JMO, Dennis

I disagree. A 44-40 that had tight chambers (so tight that about 10% of FACTORY cartridges would not chamber without forcing), had 0.424" to 0.425" cylinder throats (that a 0.427" bullet had to squeeze through), and a barrel that was 0.430" (that the bullet that had been squeezed down to 0.424" had to expand up to 0.430"), and expect this sizing down and sizing up to take place in one bullet length -- is just plain stupid. Accuracy with lead and jacketed factory cartridges as 9" to 12" from a rest at 15 yards. After the gunsmith worked on it, it was 3" to 4". Not great, but good enough.

I don't expect Linbaugh tolerances. I DO expect better than what I got. If they made their .44 Magnums like this one, they would be out of business now. If they can do better for them, they should be better on the 44-40, too. Either that or they should not sell them.

I have gone to Uberti's. They are MUCH more accurate (right out of the box) than the Ruger 44-40's were.

[targetshootr]

Yea and folks that insist on sticking up for them even though they have to fix Rugers problems will just keep Ruger going on as usual instead of addressing the problem. If enough of you complained then maybe things would change for the better instead of all these threads on the gun forums saying what **** Ruger puts out on a steady basis.

You get what you pay for. In the case of Ruger you get a bargain. In the case of FA, you get a gun you'll take beating on whenever you sell it and every repair is going to cost you. If FA had a decent repair policy like Ruger or a no BS policy like Dillon, they'd have more fans. But they seem to think people who buy their guns have plenty of money to spare.

[jh45gun]

Your right you get what you pay for which is why I will never again own an other Ruger handgun I went to Uberti and am well satisfied.

[Bucks Owin]

To each his own, but I like Rugers vaultlike strength, resale value, factory support and "shootability". They're also made in USA. Most Rugers shoot very well, some calibers extremely well. Are Ruger sixguns worth what they cost? Every damn penny IMO. Wish I had enough pennies to buy another half dozen!.....Dennis (Although, with THAT many pennies I guess I could buy the new M-83 FA I've lusted for so long!)

[jh45gun]

Evidently you never had a bad one or you do not mind fixing Ruger's mistakes.