1909 Argentine Mauser

[EMC45]

Have an opportunity to buy one of these for a decent price. The seller says it is marked with 30-06 on the barrel though. They were originally chambered for 7MM Argentine Mauser ammo which would put the bore at around .312+. Which would be no good for 30-06 unless running a really fat cast .30 cal bullet. Read an article and it said many of them were reamed to take a 30-06 shell and they are lacking in the accuracy dept. obviously. The original sights are still on the gun, which leads me to believe it was reamed and restamped. Also did the guy who reamed it know how far to go? Anyone have any experience with these??? I know they are well built guns, but no good unless it's a shooter!

[mike in co]

Have an opportunity to buy one of these for a decent price. The seller says it is marked with 30-06 on the barrel though. They were originally chambered for 7MM Argentine Mauser ammo which would put the bore at around .312+. Which would be no good for 30-06 unless running a really fat cast .30 cal bullet. Read an article and it said many of them were reamed to take a 30-06 shell and they are lacking in the accuracy dept. obviously. The original sights are still on the gun, which leads me to believe it was reamed and restamped. Also did the guy who reamed it know how far to go? Anyone have any experience with these??? I know they are well built guns, but no good unless it's a shooter!

7mm mauser= 0.312 ???

more like .2795 to .281 plus..but not 312....and since it is now an '06....308 or so...

[Hardcast416taylor]

The parent round for the `09 is the 7.65 mauser round. A friend had a sporter made on the `09 miltary rifle. The barrel is the stepped type common on military mausers and is also stamped .30-06. A new bolt and new trigger with a new blue job with drilling for a scope topped off the fajen stock. It`s a pretty puppy to be sure. I only load jacketed rounds for my friend for the mauser. The 180 gr. Nosler Ballistic tip bullets over 54.5 gr. IMR-4350 with a Winchester std. primer in Winchester brass and seat the bullet to 3.31" COAL. I regularly put 2 or all 3 shots fired at 100 yds. thru the same hole. This rifle and load has seen Africa, New Zealand as well as Canada and all over the U.S. The only caveat about bedding in a sporter stock is to pillar bed both the front and rear screws beside glass bedding and free floating the barrel. I also have a full military dress std. 1909 rifle that I enjoy it the way it was designed to be.Robert

[StarMetal]

The original caliber for the 1909 Argentine is the 7.65x54 (sometimes called the 7.65x53). The groove on the 7.65 is fat compared to 30-06 which is normally .308. The 7.65's will be anywhere from .311 and larger. Mostly larger. Let's clear ups some things. Bore is the hole that is drilled through the barrel before it is rifled. After rifling, measuring from one groove to the other is called the groove diameter. The tops of those grooves, or what is between the grooves that is raised, are the lands....and they are what is left of the bore after rifling. The bore on a 30-06 normally runs around .300. The bore on the 7.65 will more then likely be larger. The 7mm is very far away from the 30 calibers. Like mike in co said the bore will be around .279 or so and the groove from .284 and larger especially on the military rifles.

Joe

[EMC45]

7mm mauser= 0.312 ???

more like .2795 to .281 plus..but not 312....and since it is now an '06....308 or so...

The Argentine Mauser shot 7.65 Argentine, which is quite differnet than 7X57 Mauser. 7X57 has the abovementioned groove diameters, but the Argentine shoots a .313 bullet. That's why a lot of them were reamed for the -06. That leaves a lot to be desired in a difference of the groove diameters though. I am thinking the chamber was reamed and the gun then was subsequently stamped "30-06". I am probably going to bring some cleaning gear and a light. Maybe a lead pellet and dowel rod too and slug it there in the parking lot.

[EMC45]

Groove....Thank you Starmetal.

[StarMetal]

Groove....Thank you Starmetal.

EMC,

You are quite welcome. After you slug that barrel let us know what it measures out. I will tell you that were were some 30-06 Mausers, I believe Brazil had some for example, so it's possible too that it may have been rebarreled with one of those. Your measurement should tell us the facts.

Joe

[onceabull]

emc45: bought right you may get a fine shooter just by hitting the necks of your '06 brass with the expander from a 303 Br.or 7.65 Argie die set.. I've bought several over the years for less than the action alone will bring ,because someone couldn't get decent acc. with factory /06 loads.. For boolit shooting just size to proper dim.; for jacketed try .311 or .312 --I've not had one yet that wouldn't do minute of deer with the the .312

[NuJudge]

Interarms rechambered a lot of Argentine military Mausers with a .30-'06 chambering reamer. No change was made to the groove diameter.

If this is the case, it ought to shoot ok with jacketed .308 bullets, but should demand .311 or .312 cast bullets.

[EMC45]

I'm looking at spending $125 and he will meet me in my town and allow me to clean the bore and also slug it. I think it may turn out to be a good deal. I hope the bore looks good. It has been sporterized too.......The top wood is gone and the fore end has been cut back some. I have .311 bullets and a mold that will throw at .312 a 185gr. bullet. Still an "ok" deal?

[dualsport]

$125 ? What the heck, take a chance, you can probably sell it if you don't like it. Might be a good cast bullet shooter.

[Buckshot]

................A friend of mine had an Argentine M1909 that his dad had bought back before 1968. It had been stamped 30-'06. All that had been done to it was having the chamber reamed to 30-'06. While accuracy was okay with jacketed bullets, you could NOT chamber a cartridge with a correctly sized cast boolit.

................Buckshot

[Mk42gunner]

$125.00? The magazine and floorplate will bring aimost that.

If it's not pitted, I'd take it and run like a thief....


Robert

[Hardcast416taylor]

After reading all the posts on dia. of these barrels I contacted my friend about his. I slugged the bore this a.m. It measures .3095", the barrel is stamped .30-06 is 24" long and shows no evidence of having had miltary sights. Robert

[StarMetal]

After reading all the posts on dia. of these barrels I contacted my friend about his. I slugged the bore this a.m. It measures .3095", the barrel is stamped .30-06 is 24" long and shows no evidence of having had miltary sights. Robert


Europeans, and others, do happen to have a tendency to make groove diameters that large on 30-06. I have a brand new CZ500 and the groove is .309.

Joe

[KCSO]

I too had an Iterarms 1909 chambered to 30-06. Mine had a 311 bore and the largest bullet I could seat in the chamber was a 310. The gun shot really well with jacketed slugs and NFS with cast. I made a D reamer and took the neck up to where I could seat 313 bullets and it was just fine then.

[EMC45]

Just saw a better picture of the rifle. The finish of the barrel is quite different than the finish of the rest of the gun. I suspect it might have been re-barreled. Just realized this is were the "top wood" would have been. DUUUHHHH!!!!!http://forum.gon.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=417123&stc=1&d=1258677586

[Bret4207]

The '09 Argie actions alone are worth some bucks. Many are softer than run of the mill Mausers IME. Nice rifles.

[Hardcast416taylor]

The best actions that the 1909 was made with for strength and most used by gunsmiths for custom rifles is the DWM made action.Robert

[EMC45]

Just bought the rifle an hour or so ago. The bore was very dark and the stock had a crack in the wrist area. It had a freckling of rust all over the gun. I took it home and ran a brush wrapped in some steel wool a few times through the bore. Then swabbed it out with a dry patch. It is quite SHINY!! Very little pitting. Just a few spots. I am glad about that. It looked bad in the parking lot when I looked at it for sure! I ran a 00 Buckshot pellet through it and it dropped out at .312. Not bad either. The metalwork and fitting of parts is good on it. I just need to hit it with some 0000 steel wool and CLP and see what I got. I have some 150gr. and 180gr. jacketed, also some 160, 185gr. cast as well. It is a DWM. Any suggestions?

[Calehedron]

I have an 09 Argentine also chambered and stamped for 30-06 and it shoots ok with factory ammo. I tried lead 30cal bullets but after I slugged and got .313, I swapped to the Lyman 314299 200gr duplicate of the 311299. It shoots much tighter groups than ever before and I am still working on a "perfect" load for it. I have no problem chambering bullets sized to .314 and I can slide a bullet into the neck of a fired casing with light resistance.

[EMC45]

Now I need an extractor!!! Broke this one on a piece of 30-06 brass.

[StarMetal]

Gun Parts has one but it's $33.05.

Joe

[EMC45]

Just saw that a lot of folks use a 98 extractor to alleviate the problem of rim thickness. The 98 is a bit cheaper too. That way I wouldn't need to rework the Argentine extractor.

[azrednek]

Interarms rechambered a lot of Argentine military Mausers with a .30-'06 chambering reamer. No change was made to the groove diameter.

If this is the case, it ought to shoot ok with jacketed .308 bullets, but should demand .311 or .312 cast bullets.

That is exactly what mine was like, shot ok with 06 ammo and it was perfectly suitable for deer hunting.


I'm looking at spending $125 ?


That is a steal!! The hinged floorplate mag assy will fetch more than that.

[StarMetal]

Fear not. Here are .312 jacketed bullets that will fit your groove here at Grafs:

http://www.grafs.com/metallic/930

Joe

[EMC45]

Thanks Starmetal!

[StarMetal]

Thanks Starmetal!

Don't forget that's a 7.65 extractor, not the one for say a thicker rimmed 8x57 Mauser.

Go hear for 98 Mauser parts and the extractor for 8x57. From what I've been told by Lothar Walther the 1909 Argentine Mauser action is one of the most close to the 98 Mauser so that extractor should fit.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/products_new.asp?CatID=11950

Joe

[jimkim]

Now I need an extractor!!! Broke this one on a piece of 30-06 brass.

If your near Eastman, I have one I'll give you. PM me to make arrangements.

[EMC45]

I do want it!! Thank you Sir!!! PM sent.

[stephen perry]

Nice to have published data to check on. My copy of the Book of Rifles by Smith and Smith is probably as good as any on military rifles.

They list 2 Argentine Mausers a M1891 and a M1909 both 7.65mm Mausers.
The cartridges for both are .301 bore diameter and .311 groove diameter. so you are in the ballpark with your .312 Cast suggestion and yes as was stated your .308 or 9 jacketed should do fine if you go that way.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR :brokenima

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I would be very surprised if you could not sell just the complete action for $250 plus shipping.

Rich

[leadman]

I have shot .308" bullets out of my 1891 Arg. 7.65x54 with decent accuracy. Plain base are much better than boat tail.

The 1909 action is larger in diameter than the K98 so if you restock it keep this in mind. I have a 1909 I am working on in 25-06.

You have a wonderful find there and should make a good shooter. The 314299 efinitely is a batter boolit in my 1891.

[StarMetal]

I have shot .308" bullets out of my 1891 Arg. 7.65x54 with decent accuracy. Plain base are much better than boat tail.

The 1909 action is larger in diameter than the K98 so if you restock it keep this in mind. I have a 1909 I am working on in 25-06.

You have a wonderful find there and should make a good shooter. The 314299 efinitely is a batter boolit in my 1891.

leadman,

Are you sure about that?.....

Large Ring M-98
1.410 diameter receiver ring, 8.750 in length, with screw spacing of 7.835. Barrel Shank of 1.100
Large ring have a threaded shank diameter of 1.10 in. With 12 threads per inch.
Including M-98's from WWI and WW2, GEW-98,M-98k, CZ-24, VZ-24,Spanish M-43/44 . Chilean M1912, Steyr Brazilian M1908/34, Brno 98/22, 98/29, DWM / Argentine. M1909, M24/30 Venezuelan, FN M1935 Peruvian, FN Standard Model, Mauser Oberndorf

Now it is larger then this:

WWI German KAR98A,
1.30 diameter. receiver ring, 8.750 in length, with screw spacing, of 7.835 (Long action, Small ring).
Has a threaded shank diameter of 1.100 in. With 12 threads per inch.
WWI German Carbine, Also Polish 98az Uses a standard M-98 Bolt.

Joe

[Gerry N.]

Century reamed a carload of M1909 Arg. Mausers to .30-06 with no attention to either the bore diameter or magazine length. I had one for a while and got rid of it as it was too much grief for me to mess with. I just didn't want to try to lengthen the magazine box and mess with the feed ramp. I had to reseat 150 gr factory loads to get 'em into the magazine, even then It didn't feed for carp and accuracy was non existant. Why in the name of all that's holy they just didn't leave 'em alone is beyond me. They turned pretty nice surplus rifles into pretty nice paperweights.

Your mileage may vary.

Gerry N.