Case Lube Types Chapter and Verse

[1hole]

"...what I'm wondering is, what lube were you using when you stuck a case. And also, has anyone stuck a case while using either unique case lube or imperial sizing wax?"

Okay, a couple of good, short questions. But, they really don't have short proper answers, it's just not as simple as you appear to surmise.

First, I've been loading a loooong time and have used virtually every commercal lube on the market and have tried a LOT of other things as substitutes, just out of curosity. With the commercial lubes I have stuck quite a few cases but each one was MY FAULT, not the lube's. I mean, IF I properly applied a proper lube I've never had a stuck case. I've made a good number of .22-250 cases from .30-06 cases and know that the lube used makes little real difference if it's used correctly, they all get stuck if not done properly.

When I started loading, all case lubes were pretty much the same; all were basiccally STP, applied with a pad that was soon "dirty" as well as messy. It worked good but I hated those pads and hated getting my fingers in the goo. So I soon started trying to find a better choice. Ditto the loading companies, so today few of us use the old oily types that can harm both powder and primers.

Basically, we have three lube types; spray, water soluable and wax. Which we use, or should use, depends a whole lot on the volume and how we prefer to apply it. They all work very well and, so far as I know, none of them are harmful to powder or primers.

Water soluables, Lee's white stuff, RCBS, etc, are basically soaps. They are easy to apply with finger tips or even a pad if we wish. They are excellant case lubes IF properly applied. Good substitutes include some bath/bar soaps having a high lanolin content. Some "saddle" soaps. The various electrical cable/wire pulling lubracants (soft soaps) such as Gardner-Bender (GB) are sold in quarts at Lowe's, H'Depot and electrical supply houses for very little cost considering the quanity.

Commerial wax lubes include Imperial and Unique. They are soft enough to touch our finger tips to and transfer the wax to each case as we pick them up. Waxes are clean and easy to remove from both fingers and cases. I really like them. Good substitutes include Kiwi "Mink Oil", "Sno-Proof", "Snow Seal", etc., leather boot treatments, all soft waxes. Pretty good, workable for sure, substitutes include Johnson Paste Wax and others of that type, Kiwi (Neutral) Shoe Wax, the soft wax-lube sticks marketed for lubing auto door latches, Chap-Stick lip balm, Oldham saw blade lube for woodworkers. Some of the toilet wax ring seals sold to plumbers are good too but tend to be more greasy than other waxes.

Sprays seem to be mostly mixtures of lanolin and alcohol. Sprays are best when doing large quanities of cases, especially so with a progressive press. All of the spray lubes have the lube itself mixed with a rapid drying solvent, the alcohol or another "carrier". They don't stay mixed so it's necessary to shake the containers well before AND during use to keep them mixed. Then allow sufficent time for the carrier to evaporate before attempting to size.

It appears that many users get failures with sprays because they spray their cases standing in a loading block which effectively shields the lower part from getting much lube in the critical area! That's NOT a good idea! When I use sprays (which is seldom because I'm not a high volume loader) I place the cases on a sheet of newspaper to catch the over-spray and that allows me to spray the entire case, IF I roll them around a little while doing it.

If the user only shakes the spray once before use the contents will seperate. By the time he gets to the bottom of the can there is ltttle lube left. With only carrier remaining, he WILL get stuck cases. Moral: Shake it up, often, as it's used and cover the full case length.

No matter the type of lube, WE MUST LUBE THE LOWER CASE OR THEY WILL GET STUCK! Sticking has virtually nothing to do with the internal finish of a sizer die, nor the brand of case, nor how much the case must be sized down; it has to do with a lack of lube where it's needed, period. It's clear that many reloaders over-lube the upper half of their cases and apply too little to the lower part. Excess lube up high makes lube dents on the shoulder, too little on the thicker, harder lower part assures many stuck cases.

A final factor, especially when a die has been cleaned internally, is to cover the die wall with a good layer of lube before sholving the first few cases home. Doing that is easily achieved by giving the first 2-4 cases an extra thick coat AND then inserting those few cases into the die in a series of 4-5 short strokes, allowing the lube to move around on the die walls a bit before pushing the the cases fully up. I clean my size dies internally prior to each use so this start-up step is VERY important or I will get STUCK CASES, no matter what lube I'm using.

Bottom line; the type or brand of case lube we use is largely irrelivant but the way we apply it and use it is not.

[monkeymt]

I stuck a case using Imperial for the first time two weeks ago. This the first stuck case for me after reloading for a very long time. The end of your post is the reason it got stuck. I cleaned the die very well about a month or longer before this happened. I did not break in the clean die, which by the way I cleaned with Kroil to leave the die with no lubrication whatsoever. I think your method of lubing the die is right on target. After I carefully ran a few cases with a little more Imperial and then went back to the normal amount of lube I have not had a single problem. Excellent post.
Mark

[zardoz]

George, I don't see why not. Welcome.

I was just doing a search on this myself.

One item of note, I have discovered recently. I made my own spray lube using 91% isopropyl, and liquid lanolin obtained online from a vitamin web site. The lanolin did drop out of solution if not shaken regularly.

Until....I mixed in a few drops of Dawn dish detergent, and shook it up, and the lanolin now seems to stay in solution. I used a little trigger type spray bottle of the type found at Wal-Mart. with the sample size toothpaste and shampoo bottles. About 6 oz. or so. The bottle sat for a whole week after the detergent addition, and no beads of lanolin sank to the bottom.

I filled with isopropyl, and put in maybe 1/4 oz. of liquid lanolin. Later, the dish detergent, maybe 1/3 teaspoon or so. Cases have a very slick, slimy feel right after spraying.

It works pretty good on 308 cases so far.

[rockrat]

Have used the lanolin and alcohol mix. Works well, but tough to get off. Just tried some RCBS lube and alcohol, about 3/4 oz to 16 oz of alcohol(91%) on '06 cases. Seems to also work well. Put sized cases in a large baggie with hot water and a little dishwashing soap and rinsed with hot water. Seemed to get most of it off the cases.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Well, I`m not a closet mad scientist! I have a hard time stirring my coffee and splenda in the morning, so that is why I don`t make my own spray lubes. I buy mine from Dillion, yes I know it isn`t the cheapest way to go. It does what I want it to do and I`m happy with the results. I may be retired and on a short leash for money, but I do know what works for my money. As I recall most makers of lubes tell you to pre-lube your sizer dies before use.Robert

[gcollins]

Hi Fella's,
I also have been reloading for a loooong time. When I started there were no Carbide dies so you had to lube everything:violin: When Carbide dies came out I thought that it was neater than Pop Corn in a Box:mrgreen: I stopped reloading rifle cartidges in 86 and have loaded pistol rounds since then and never gave another thought to case lube. Here a couple years ago bought some 45-70 rifles and went back to reloading rifles shells, the 45-70 size easy so I used the old stanard STP, hear a couple months I got a 243WSSM and have used New cases untill here a few days ago, I have a Herters Super O Press and didn't think I would have any problems, well with this back I tried a couple and paid for it dearly:cry: So I came here in hopes of finding a lube that will help.
So I just wanted to post a thank you to 1 Hole and every one else that added there comment.
Later
G

[rtracy2001]

I have only stuck one case in my life (so far). When I was in Jr. High I was resizing a bunch of 270 into '06 and didn't get one lubed enough (RCBS lube and pad). What a mess to get out of the die.

I am currently using the Hornady Spray stuff and have had very good luck with it. I did notice that regular loading blocks don't work well due to missing the bottom 1/2 inch of case as was mentioned before. The other day I was converting a bunch of '06 to 8mm-06 and I had a brain storm. I flipped my Hornady loading block over and set the cases up on the pistol side. The holes are much more shallow, so the only part of the case that does not get covered is the rim. So far I have sized about 300 cases of various calibers (30-06, 8mm-06, and 308) with good results. I hope for good results with the .223, 30 carbine and 300 Savage too. The '06 family of cartidges is the largest head diameter that you can do, others (7.62x54R) are too big for the pistol side.

Never bothered to clean the lube off, once it dries it isn't sticky, doesn't attract dirt and doesn't stick anything in the chamber, so why bother?

.02

[onondaga]

I stuck a case once when using Lee case lube. Of course there was none on that particular shell case at all for some unknown reason. So I did what I usually do in those situations. I selected a scape goat from my family and told her that she put an unlubricated shell case in my loading block and would not be forgiven. Period.[smilie=1: My children are just as Sicilian as I am. The Mother has some German in her lineage and I have come to call the frequently used solution "The Hitler Option" and it has served us all well.

[WILDEBILL308]

Just a comment from a new guy.
I have been loading for a long time, and long ago realized there were only those who have stuck a case and those who will stick a case.
I like the Dillon spray for most sizing but use Imperial sizing wax for forming say 30 HARET from 30-30 cases. Like some one posted you have to let the spray on lubes dry before starting to size. I use a medium Arco bin and just shake them up a bit to get good coverage. I don’t use loading blocks because most of my loading is on progressive presses.
Bill

[liljohnnie]

I have stuck 2 cases so far in about 14 years at the reloading bench.One .223 and one 30-06. Both were my fault so i will not mention the lube i was using. I made my own stuck case remover for the price of the tap ($4.00) the rest of the materials i had lying around in the shop.

[seanhagerty]

I was plagued by stuck 223 cases using lees case lube. I would rub a smidge on each case and got tired of it. It was just too labor intensive and not very consistent. Getting stuck cases out was a PITA.

I read of Hornadys one shot. Using it, I was lubing faster, but found that I was still getting stuck 223 cases. I tried double spraying, turning them upside down, yada yada yada. Still had stuck cases.

I read some where of mixing lee case lube with Isopropyl alcohol. I tried that and mixed it in a spray bottle. I put the cases in a zip lock bag and sprayed a few shots, and then worked the cases around. The cases got resized with little effort, no more straining to resize, or stuck cases. After resizing, I throw them into a tumbler to clean the lube off and I trim to length and I am done.

This is my current mode of lubing/sizing/prep/trimming. But you can bet I will put a few drops of soap in there to see how that works out.

Sean

[Ficus]

I was plagued by stuck 223 snip
snip
snip
snip

This is my current mode of lubing/sizing/prep/trimming. But you can bet I will put a few drops of soap in there to see how that works out.

Sean

I saw you say you would try soap and wonder how that worked. My concern is that brass may be incompatible with organic acids for long term storage and some soaps in addition to sodium salts of organic acids may contain extra fat and organic acids.

So... does anyone have experience with using soap in contact with brass?

Ficus

[John Boy]

Here's the story: I have used home mades from fr frogs site and various commercials. There is NOTHING that beats Bag Balm - period. It is 99.9% lanolin. The commericals are lanolin too but diluted in an alcohol solution.

I do a lot of reforming cases for various calibers. With Bag Balm the cases have never bound in the resizing die ... they just kind of glide down - ever thickwall 348's being squeezed to 45-75's
A very light finger coating is all that is needed.

Bag Balm - in your friendly drug store - about 6 bucks in the green square can. Cows love it too![smilie=l:

[1hole]

"I have stuck 2 cases so far in about 14 years at the reloading bench.One .223 and one 30-06. Both were my fault so i will not mention the lube i was using."

You do well to avioid mention of what lube you were NOT using in that instance. I've seen a lot of web posts berating this or that lube and then the user admitted he either didn't lube that case or didn't use the lube correctly; that his case got stuck was hardly due to the lube!

[Ed in North Texas]

Here's the story: I have used home mades from fr frogs site and various commercials. There is NOTHING that beats Bag Balm - period. It is 99.9% lanolin. The commericals are lanolin too but diluted in an alcohol solution.

I do a lot of reforming cases for various calibers. With Bag Balm the cases have never bound in the resizing die ... they just kind of glide down - ever thickwall 348's being squeezed to 45-75's
A very light finger coating is all that is needed.

Bag Balm - in your friendly drug store - about 6 bucks in the green square can. Cows love it too![smilie=l:

I've always known Bag Balm was super stuff, been using it on cuts since a child (though my wife of over 40 years doesn't care for the smell). Now I have another use to add to the list.

I've been using Midway's spray for some years now, with Imperial for heavy case forming. I spray batches either on paper, or more recently in a large loading block. I bought an RCBS Stuck Case Remover about the time I got married. I'm lucky enough to not having had to use it yet. Probably shouldn't have said that!:(

[Ziptar]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned "Udder Creme" yet.

http://www.dollartree.com/assets/product_images/styles/alternate_large/851059.jpg

I picked up several 2 oz tubes at Dollar Tree a couple weeks ago for $1 each. (http://www.dollartree.com/health-personal-care/bath-products/Spa-Skincare/Udderly-Smooth-Udder-Cream/211c243c352p300940/index.pro). It will be with the travel / trial size soaps and shampoos, not in the Women's stuff isle.

Over the weekend I tried it while full length sizing a handful of 45 Colt cases with the arbor press.

It seems to work really well and doesn't smell bad at all, actually it hardly has a smell.

Ingredients:
Deionized water, stearic acid, Peg-2 Stearate, propylene glycol, isopropyl myristate, dimethicone, lanolin oil, mineral oil, triethanolamine, allantoin, methylparaben, propylparaben, fragrance

CVS also sells it in 12 oz tubs for $5.99 (http://www.cvs.com/CVSApp/catalog/shop_product_detail.jsp?skuId=211718&productId=211718&WT.mc_id=Shopping_Feed_Products_Google_Free_Listin g) so its easy to find and fairly inexpensive.

I want to try that Bag Balm though.

[geargnasher]

I use Alberto V05 Hair Dressing on a case lube pad.

Gear

[41mag]

Great and informative post. I would like to toss out a couple of ideas I have had on using different types of the mentioned lubes over the years.

First off, for the spray types. As mentioned above they are simply one of the lighter consistency type lubes ejected by a carrier of evaporative base propellant. One of the best ways I have found to apply these or any other spray on lubes is to build a case rack. To do so you simply measure off one of the longer type case blocks, then using a ruler draw out the corresponding pattern of hole centers on a piece of 1x6 or 1x8. Then using a 3/16" pilot tipped wood bit, drill out the corresponding marks and insert a 2" piece of 3/16" dowel rod.

Once you ahve the dowels inserted you should have a matching peg board of sorts which will match perfectly or close to it, the hole pattern on your loading block. Then you simply load up the pegs with the cases you want to lube, hold them at a 30 or so degree angle and spray one side then rotate it and spray the other side, until you have sprayed from all 4 directions. Allow them 5-10 minutes to dry and your ready to resize them. While the sizing is done you can do one of several things, either set them back on the pegs as they are primed, drop them in the tumbler for a quick clean, or wipe them off and set them into the loading block.

If your like me, I tumble all my cases prior to sizing, so they are all clean and shiney at this point already. So I will size, seat a new primer, wipe them off with a rag, and set them back on the peg. Once I am done with the 50 or so that fit my peg board, I simply set the corresponding loading block on top so they all fit into the holes, flip it and once removed I am ready to throw powder in them and seat bullets.

FOr the jelly type lubes like Imperial and such, I simply grab a dollop and rub it into both hands really good, then it's simply a matter of rubbing 3-5 cases at a time between my hands to get them all lubed at once. I add a little lube about every 20 cases or so as needed.

As was mentioned there are various substitutes out there, and one I have personally used was Mink Oil purchased from Wally world in a pinch, while I was ou in the boonies looking to do some load development. Don't ask me how but I managed to leave not one but two cans of Imperial sitting in two different places at the house as we drove off that morning headed to the farm. I have to say that the Mink Oil did an excellent job on both the batch of cases I worked with and later on my grandsons baseball glove as well.

Also I would like to add a link, which I think would fit in here just fine. I would also like to graciously thank Fr. Frog for permission to do so. If you haven't visited his site already you owe it to yourself to do so.

Homemade Firearm Cleaners & Lubricants (http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm)

Thanks again Fr. Frog.

[zardoz]

Had another idea today. I had been dissolving liquid lanolin in 91% isopropyl, and always had beads of lanolin on the bottom. I got this to stay in solution for the most part, by adding a few drops of Dawn dish soap to the mix.

Well, today I wanted to size some more brass, and only had a smidgen of spray left in the bottle. I needed to make more, so I rounded up the liquid lanolin bottle, and suddenly remembered I had a bottle of "IsoHeet" in the basement. This is gas dryer based on isopropryl rather than methanol. So, I put the IsoHeet in a little 12oz glass bottle with screw top, and added maybe not quite a half ounce of liquid lanolin. A quick shake, and it ALL went into solution immediately. No beads at the bottom, and no thrashing about.

Apparently, any water in your alcohol will prevent the lanolin from dissolving. The IsoHeet is probably as dry and pure an isopropyl alcohol as you can get easily off the shelf.

So, I tried it on a few cases, and the alcohol evaporates very quickly leaving the thin lanolin film. It dries much faster than the 91%, and just plain seems to work better.

[perimedik]

Hey Guys,
I've seen a few of these threads so I decided to turn it into a step by step pictorial.

Step One
Throw "One Shot" in the garbage because evdentially it sucks (it's a joke guys relax)
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/Case%20Lube/CaseLube002.jpg

Step Two
Gather contents -
Liquid Lanolin (100% pure was $7.00 at the local health food store)
Isopropyl Alcohol (at minimum 91% $1.19 at the local drug store - 99% is best couldn't find it)
New or Clean spray bottle (from the "Dollar" store) has ratio markings and ounce markings so it helps
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/Case%20Lube/CaseLube001.jpg

Step Three
Warm the Lanolin in warm tap water (110 to 120 degrees F - NO OPEN FLAMES)
Do the same for the IPA, this will help in the mixing process.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/Case%20Lube/CaseLube003.jpg

Step Four
Pour 2 (two) ounces of the warmed Lanolin into the spray bottle
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/Case%20Lube/CaseLube004.jpg

[span style='font-weight: bold;']Step Five
Pour 16 (or 18 or 20 or 24 to get the consistancy you desire) ounces of the warmed IPA into the spray bottle giving you an 1:8 1:10, 1:12 ratio
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/Case%20Lube/CaseLube005.jpg

Step Six
Shake until contents becomes homogonized and label the bottle accordingly (so you don't confuse it with CLP or something)
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/Case%20Lube/CaseLube006.jpg

then proceed to lube cases as needed. I left some room incase I needed to adjust the ratio depending on the dies and how finiky they may be. work fine for me. I have done countless cases and it was smooth as silk.

Hope it helps

[JohnH]

Flax soap.

Sherwin Williams used to sell this to clean hardwood floors. I've no idea where it could be bought today. My dad picked up 9 cans of the stuff on a clearance rack years ago. I've been using one can for over 8 years now. Easy to use. Wet a wash cloth and squeeze out to damp. dip a smidge on your finger and rub into rag. Roll cases on rag and size. A little goes a long way. Have a second damp rag at hand to wipe cases clean after sizing. Leaves brass nice and clean. damp a Qtip with it to lube inside of case mouth.

[Shooter6br]

I use a members reciepe ( Junior ) Beeswax and vegtable shorting . Either by hand of on an RCBS lube pad. Seems to be as good as Imperial sizing wax for my useages.

[Franklin Zeman]

Early in this tomb it was mentioned that Kroil was used to clean dies with. I use Kroil for a variety of reason. Great product. However, it is NOT a lubricant. It may act as one if used in a air system for powered tools, but in and by itself, it is NOT a lubricant. I was told this by an engineer that I have the utmost respect for.

[David2011]

Early in this tomb it was mentioned that Kroil was used to clean dies with. I use Kroil for a variety of reason. Great product. However, it is NOT a lubricant. It may act as one if used in a air system for powered tools, but in and by itself, it is NOT a lubricant. I was told this by an engineer that I have the utmost respect for.

A couple of years ago and for some reason that has now escaped me, I put some Kroil on a boolit that was going through my Star sizer. BIG MISTAKE! The boolit was STUCK and I had a really tough time removing it. Not only is it not a lubricant but it seemed to have cleaned the boolit lube out of the die on contact.

David

[-D-]

No talk of lubes for neck sizing using dies with an expander ball?

I've been using RCBS dry lube but when I run out of that I'll be trying graphite or motor mica unless I hear about something better.

[josleynrm]

I dry tumble my 5.56 cases to get the range boogers off and use Ballistol and denatured alcohol to lube. I mix about 2 tablespoons of Ballistol to 1 pint of alcohol, shake it up and spray it into a large plastic bowl or the bottom of a bucket with 300-500 cases and mix them around with my hands to distribute. I repeat this a few times and let the alcohol evaporate for a while. It leaves a light slick film on the cases. I have sized maybe 10,000 cases this way without sticking one...so far. Hey, Ballistol is non-carcinogenic and biodegradable. Reckon that makes my operation green!

I intend to try lanolin too like some guys have done if I come across it for cheap.

Robert

[EDG]

Some of these threads can have inadvertenly misleading posts because of the difference in force required for sizing different cases. Lubing and sizing pistol brass barely requires much lube or effort.
I really like cases with large heavy rims (45-70 and similar) to prevent stuck cases. However these large rims can pull the top off of a standard shell holder. RCBS made some 1" diameter shell holders that work great for 45-70, 43 Spanish and 50-70.
For heavy forming work I have used the various mineral oils and the Imperial Lube and managed to get by. One of the worst sizing projects I have worked on was a large lot of nickel 6mm Rem brass that was fired in a rifle with a generous chamber. It seemed that I was on the knife edge between sticking cases and creating lube dents while sizing the first few. I finally tried some Mystik JT6 chassis grease. This is a common water proof chassis lube used on autos and heavy equipment. It is about $2 for a tube that fits a standard grease gun. I use this grease on my 4X4 because it supposed to resist mositure so it was just what I had on hand. While kind of messy for normal use, it worked great for this heavy duty application. When the press handle is pulled back from the over center position, the friction is so low between the die and case that the ram is actually pushed back by the case. The cases will actually try to push themselves back out of the die if they have any taper.
This grease is cheap and works great. I am sure there are similar greases that will work too.
The only draw back is cleaning the cases. The grease is very persistent and tends to be solvent proof.
The best way to remove it is to wipe off all you can and rinse the cases in 99% isoproply alcohol.

[march41]

KISS use rcbs pad and lube,wipe in a few drops and roll rife cases (5) across afew times and resize.

[o6Patient]

The lanolin/alcohol mix seems to make the most sense to me for a replacement lube. I have had good luck with
the commercial stuff form either rcbs or lyman over the years..the water soluble stuff like the rcbs lube 2
always seems cleaner to work with than the home made lubes. (mho

[salpal48]

I have been Loading for a very long Time. I;v been using 2 products exclusively . For case forming and general sizing (50 cases or under) "PANEF'S white stick sillicon lube. Works great on all loading equipment , Die threads ,rams, press arms ,etc
For quantity , an old time product called WHITS PROTECTION OIL . This is an solvent based product that air dries and turns to a wax film. Great as an anti rust for gun as well . Wipe off , but I tumble it on and off . This is no longer may . The same product was sold under another name for gun products called "ANTI-RUST "
Never had stuck case

[country gent]

I have used the Imperial sizing lube for years a tin lasts forever. When lubing large quantities of case I put them on a dedicated bath towel with a few fingers full of lube. Grab the corners of the towel each end in each hand pick up and rotate cases by lifting lowering end of towel. a couple thousand 308 cases can be sized in just a few minutes. By dedicating a towel to this as the towel becomes impregnated less lube is needed for each batch. This has worked for me for many years. I have lubed .243 .223 .308 using this method. Its fast easy and efficent. I bought a couple large tins of Imperial wax years ago on commercial row at Camp Perry and am still using from the last one.

[Beekeeper]

In the early 50's I bought a tube of RCBS case lube and used some on an ink pad.
Worked great.
My Dad looked at it and said STP to which I said RCBS and he laughed.
Told me it was STP .
When I needed more I bought STP and have never used anything else since.
I use it when sizing and for case forming.
Since the 50's I have only lost 2 cases.
One a 577/450 and the other a 43 Mauser.
I wipe it on the neck and shoulder with my fingers when resizing and roll the case on the pad when forming.


beekeeper

[Ozarklongshot]

For the most part I'm a big fan of imperial, but years ago, loading large volumes of 5.56 another volume loader showed me this. Dump up to 500 tumbled cases in a brown paper bag and spray "pam" non-stick cooking spray liberally into the bag, roll the top down a bit and shake it up good. Never had a stuck case and seems to have no ill effect on loaded rounds.

[Bayou52]

I find, in my experience especially with large rifle cases, that imperial does a great job. But so does Hornady Unique case lube that comes comes in a little tub, and at a much cheaper cost.

Bayou52

[Tarkid]

This is an old thread, but if anybody sees this, I've had excellent luck with regular 3in1 oil on an RCBS case lube pad. It doesn't take much, I just used it to lube over 1000 .223 cases, and I only "dosed" the pad once with 25 or so drops of oil. Not one stuck case in the lot, and I generally only lube every other case. The cases end up with a VERY thin film of oil on them which I find rather pleasant. It's inexpensive, I always have the oil around, and it works!

[w5pv]

I haven't used STP in years but it is good ,I tried the VO5,some pure soaps.lanolin and few other products and then Marvel Mystery Oil and have been using it on all of my rifle dies.Just a small amount between thumb and fore finger.Seems to have less drag than the others I have tried

[ridurall]

I've used just about every kind of lube on the market and ran into a problem with trying to run some 50 BMG API surplus pulled bullets through a Lee .510 sizer die. I almost screwed up my RCBS Rockchucker press because I had to pound on it to get the bullets through. In the process I went to H&H guns in OKC to see what they had. They steered me towards the Imperial Sizing Wax and wow I discovered it's the slickest stuff I've ever been around. I couldn't even hold on to the bullets before running them through the die. Great stuff and I also used it to lube parts on my AR-15 and AR-10. I like the way it stays put and especially like using it on my AR triggers.

[enfieldphile]

I think I'm the one who first discovered GB Wire Pulling Lube as a case lube.

It was around 1994. I was in an Ace Hardware, walking down an idle and smelled Lee case lube!

I looked up to see a quart container of GB. I put some from the container on a paper napkin I had in my pocket. I walked out to my vehicle and lubed a .308 case. Back @ home, the case resized like it had Lee lube.

A Q-Tip wet w/ GB is great for inside the case neck. It seems to reduce safe neck stretch.

I first wrote it up on the 'net in about 2000 on the old shooterstalk.com site. I still use GB! :)

[skeet028]

Well I've been loading metallics since 1959 or so.. I have only stuck one case in that whole time. luckily. And hopefully it is the last. I have bought many sets of dies with stuck cases in 'em..usually at porn..I mean pawn shops etc. I do reloading stuff at some local gun shows and always take a stuck case remover with me. Put up a little sign..stuck cases removed 5 bucks. It takes a whole 5 minutes to do..Most I ever did was 17 in one day..then sold the stuck case remover.. Almost every one was stuck with NO lube on 'em at all.. I have even had a few that were brought to me where the die was completely ruined..For my rifle ammo I use Imperial Sizing Die wax. For my 223 I use Dillon spray on..or in a pinch Hornady spray. I also use them when doing the pistol stuff in my Dillon Super 1050's. They have carbide dies of course but.. Makes it so much easier to load with..but ya gotta wait till they dry.

[realllynow]

i like the bag balm idea. so much that in the middle of reading the thread i jumped up ran to the loading bench lubed 5 30-06 cases and ran them threw. worked like a dream.
i have found the 'new' case lube.

[ravelode]

A friend who works in a tire shop gave me some lube that he makes from bulk window washer fluid and coconut oil (a.k.a. tire mounting lube), I'm going to try it next week. I'm tired of trying to squeeze that too thick RCBS lube onto the pad. I liked Imperial, but its a bit spendy in my neck of the woods.

[w5pv]

I have used Marvel Mystery Oil since the early 70's and have never stuck a case yet.I have never done any swaging but suspect it would work there also.

[CastingFool]

Back in 1981, I was working as a machinist, and had just begun reloading metallic cartridges. Being somewhat of a thrifty disposition, I made two stuck case removers out of 416 SS. I had been looking at a RCBS catalog, saw what they looked like, and the price, and decided to make my own. I'm happy to say that I have never had the opportunity to see if they work. Both removers are still in a plastic bag, in my cabinet. I also made my own powder trickler out of stainless steel. that one works very well. I appreciate all the tips and comments you guys have made.

[skeet028]

But so does Hornady Unique case lube that comes comes in a little tub, and at a much cheaper cost.

Bayou52

I bought 4 or 5 of those Unique lube tubs. Now i knew it was lanolin but my wife uses it on her skin..specially her feet. Smooth too. But it is a great case lube and you can make yer own spray on with it.Bought one at the last gun show I did for a dollar

[dromia]

Hornady Unique case lube! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Smilies%20FB/sSig_goodjob.gif

[mac60]

90530

Mineral jelly, paraffin wax, castor oil, coconut oil, cod liver oil and a few other ingredients. This stuff is pretty good. I was converting some .270 Win. to 8mm Mauser today and used this for lube. Only took a very slight amount. 5+ oz. should last a while.

[fguffey]

"...what I'm wondering is, what lube were you using when you stuck a case.
Bottom line; the type or brand of case lube we use is largely irrelivant but the way we apply it and use it is not.

I do not agree, Jack O'Conner in a book he wrote in 1954 about reloading said he had problems with his hands drying up so he used lanolin, he used lanolin from his hands to lube cases. He used lanolin and nothing, I am sure there are mentions of case lube before Jack O'Conner in 1954. Lyman used a tube of lube that looked like http://www.mscdirect.com/product/01245455?src=pla&008=-99&007=Search&pcrid=15557577904&006=15557577904&005=21882504424&004=4409695744&002=2167139&mkwid=sJXegN7a0%7Cdc&cid=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_sJXegN7a0_PLA__15557577904_c_S&026=-99&025=c

I use a lube that is not on anyone's list of approved lubes. "Bottom line; the type or brand of case lube we use is largely irrelevant". I work with other loaders/builders forming cases that do not exist. If Imperial or Dillon in a can or bottle is not going to be used there is no reason for me showing up. Before I get there I make sure the dies we are going to use work, my part is done effortlessly. Once we get started with the Imperial or Dillon spray I am concerned for the press. There are times the die does not make it to the shell holder because of the lube or the method used to clean the cases.

I clean my dies with a towel on a dowel, I do not use degreaser sprays. I like the finish on the die, I do not want to start over by removing it.

F. Guffey

[enfieldphile]

I began handloading in 1982 w/ the RCBS STP stuff, very messy! Then I switched to the Lee wax a few years later when it came available. I discovered Gardner-Bender (GB) wire pulling lube around 1995 and never looked back!

I have stuck exactly one .308 case in all those years. I was my fault for not properly lubing the case. I drilled & tapped the flash hole 1/4-20. A 1/4" drive, 12mm socket, a 1/4-20 bolt & flat washer and a 7/16 wrench had the case out in no time!

[donald duck]

For what it is worth. Each oil change I add a qt. of Shaler Rislone. Then I allow the yellow can to drip into an old prescription bottle. Take it to my loading bench and use a "Q" Tip dip in and lube inside of case mouth. Then lube outside of case also. Only have ever had one stuck case and was my fault. forgot to lube it on outside body. Not only is it a good case lube, it cleans up a sticky valve lifter if you ever have one.

[jmort]

Unique, non-toxic goodness

[.30-06 fan]

i use kiwi mink oil for all my 30-06 loads, works fine. put a little on my fingers and away i go.

130136

[fguffey]

Each oil change I add a qt. of Shaler Rislone.

Many years ago they guaranteed me if there product did not help it would not hurt. I was a fan of Rislone and Marvel Mystery oil. Even then it was necessary to understand some additives were not compatible with parts made of rubber.

F. Guffey

[ScotMc]

I use Imperial wax. I still manage to get one stuck once in a while from being stoopid. No fault of the lube- just the NUT that holds the press handle!!!

[EDG]

I don't know how you can expound so long on the subject if you are not a high volume loader. Anyone can load a few round every year for 40 years but that hardly qualifies having the experience to know everything about case sizing lubes.
I know for a fact that the internal dimensions of dies, the internal finish, the finish of the brass and how much the brass was expanded by firing all effect the force required to size a case.
I have measured the interior dimensions of over a 100 fl sizing dies. I have one FL die in particular that you would have to stick 4 or 5 cases in before you would learn what does not work.


"...what I'm wondering is, what lube were you using when you stuck a case. And also, has anyone stuck a case while using either unique case lube or imperial sizing wax?"

Okay, a couple of good, short questions. But, they really don't have short proper answers, it's just not as simple as you appear to surmise.

First, I've been loading a loooong time and have used virtually every commercal lube on the market and have tried a LOT of other things as substitutes, just out of curosity. With the commercial lubes I have stuck quite a few cases but each one was MY FAULT, not the lube's. I mean, IF I properly applied a proper lube I've never had a stuck case. I've made a good number of .22-250 cases from .30-06 cases and know that the lube used makes little real difference if it's used correctly, they all get stuck if not done properly.

When I started loading, all case lubes were pretty much the same; all were basiccally STP, applied with a pad that was soon "dirty" as well as messy. It worked good but I hated those pads and hated getting my fingers in the goo. So I soon started trying to find a better choice. Ditto the loading companies, so today few of us use the old oily types that can harm both powder and primers.

Basically, we have three lube types; spray, water soluable and wax. Which we use, or should use, depends a whole lot on the volume and how we prefer to apply it. They all work very well and, so far as I know, none of them are harmful to powder or primers.

Water soluables, Lee's white stuff, RCBS, etc, are basically soaps. They are easy to apply with finger tips or even a pad if we wish. They are excellant case lubes IF properly applied. Good substitutes include some bath/bar soaps having a high lanolin content. Some "saddle" soaps. The various electrical cable/wire pulling lubracants (soft soaps) such as Gardner-Bender (GB) are sold in quarts at Lowe's, H'Depot and electrical supply houses for very little cost considering the quanity.

Commerial wax lubes include Imperial and Unique. They are soft enough to touch our finger tips to and transfer the wax to each case as we pick them up. Waxes are clean and easy to remove from both fingers and cases. I really like them. Good substitutes include Kiwi "Mink Oil", "Sno-Proof", "Snow Seal", etc., leather boot treatments, all soft waxes. Pretty good, workable for sure, substitutes include Johnson Paste Wax and others of that type, Kiwi (Neutral) Shoe Wax, the soft wax-lube sticks marketed for lubing auto door latches, Chap-Stick lip balm, Oldham saw blade lube for woodworkers. Some of the toilet wax ring seals sold to plumbers are good too but tend to be more greasy than other waxes.

Sprays seem to be mostly mixtures of lanolin and alcohol. Sprays are best when doing large quanities of cases, especially so with a progressive press. All of the spray lubes have the lube itself mixed with a rapid drying solvent, the alcohol or another "carrier". They don't stay mixed so it's necessary to shake the containers well before AND during use to keep them mixed. Then allow sufficent time for the carrier to evaporate before attempting to size.

It appears that many users get failures with sprays because they spray their cases standing in a loading block which effectively shields the lower part from getting much lube in the critical area! That's NOT a good idea! When I use sprays (which is seldom because I'm not a high volume loader) I place the cases on a sheet of newspaper to catch the over-spray and that allows me to spray the entire case, IF I roll them around a little while doing it.

If the user only shakes the spray once before use the contents will seperate. By the time he gets to the bottom of the can there is ltttle lube left. With only carrier remaining, he WILL get stuck cases. Moral: Shake it up, often, as it's used and cover the full case length.

No matter the type of lube, WE MUST LUBE THE LOWER CASE OR THEY WILL GET STUCK! Sticking has virtually nothing to do with the internal finish of a sizer die, nor the brand of case, nor how much the case must be sized down; it has to do with a lack of lube where it's needed, period. It's clear that many reloaders over-lube the upper half of their cases and apply too little to the lower part. Excess lube up high makes lube dents on the shoulder, too little on the thicker, harder lower part assures many stuck cases.

A final factor, especially when a die has been cleaned internally, is to cover the die wall with a good layer of lube before sholving the first few cases home. Doing that is easily achieved by giving the first 2-4 cases an extra thick coat AND then inserting those few cases into the die in a series of 4-5 short strokes, allowing the lube to move around on the die walls a bit before pushing the the cases fully up. I clean my size dies internally prior to each use so this start-up step is VERY important or I will get STUCK CASES, no matter what lube I'm using.

Bottom line; the type or brand of case lube we use is largely irrelivant but the way we apply it and use it is not.

[1_Ogre]

I use a strange way to lubed my brass. Layer of waxed paper, then a folded paper towel. Spray with Lyman spray case lube and let it set for 1/2 hr or so to have the liquid (you know, the stuff that puts dings in the shoulder when you size) evaporate. What's left is the anhydrous(?) lanolin. Roll the cases and you just get a nice THIN layer of lube.
I have had some 308 brass that sticks. I load for an AR-10 so I usually use small base dies, but in this case, I got a "REGULAR" set of dies to load these problem brass. Regular dies first, small base dies second. If some of the brass is run through a small base die first, it will stick, and we all know how much fun that is.
I've had suggestions on ALL types of case lube, but the way I described above works fine, easy to do, and when the paper towel gets dirty, throw it away and use a new one. Cheap, effective, and it works

[Big Boomer]

Glad I ran onto this thread. I've been sizing some .308/7.62X51 - primarily LC - '12. Apparently this brass has been fired from a number of different firearms because some of them re-size fairly easily but some of them are really hard to re-size - and everything in between. It is all once-fired because I had to de-prime and remove the primer crimp from every last one of them. My guess is that some was fired from full-auto firearms, since being military stuff. Because I stuck one case - again, my fault, not using enough lube - I went to something I'd never used before ... compressor oil. Still hard to re-size some of them, but no more stuck cases. Have on hand anhydrous lanolin, castor oil, Vaseline, various greases - the usual, but don't want to take any chances. Next time around should not be such a bother. Big Boomer

Well ... decided that I would try the anhydrous lanolin with just one case since I had two 1-lb jars that have been sitting around for the last 10 to 15 yrs to make some FWFL. Put plenty of the lanolin on the pads of both thumbs & index fingers and rolled a .308 case and gingerly gave it a try. Wow! Easier than with compressor oil or any other lube type I've ever used. You guys have convinced me. Wondered what I would use to wash the lanolin off the cases and read on the container that it should not be used without mixing with water. This stuff is apparently water soluble.

[WILDEBILL308]

When reloading brass that has been shot in sloppy chambered full auto stuff that has way excessive head space. Be shure you check for case head separation or overstretched cases.:)
Bill

[Big Boomer]

WILDEBILL308: You are right that ammo brass shot in sloppy chambered full auto firearms is likely to have stretched unduly. Reloading for a Century Arms C308 Sporter, first did just a smidgen of neck sizing - sizing the neck short of touching the shoulder. Then I tried a few of these cases on for size in the Sporter. They all worked. Then reloaded some 190 gr. boolits with gas checks and they all fired and grouped well. This is definitely not a long-distance firearm. Big Boomer

[Walks]

I'm always fascinated by the lengths folks will go to to come up with a difficult solution to a non-existent problem. The reloading Manufacturer's have all come up with excellent lubes for case resizing. Unless you have a pressing need to reinvent the wheel. What's wrong with the Manufacturers Lubes ? I've used LYMAN case lube, because it came with my 1st reloading press. A few years later when that LYMAN lube ran out I switched to RCBS because it came with the RockChucker I received as a gift. When the 1st RCBS lube bottle ran out I bought a bottle of RCBS Case-lube 2.
I used all these lubes on a case lube pad to load THOUSANDS OF RIFLE AMMO over 25+yrs. Only three 4oz containers of lube in all that time. A few hundred cases formed using IMPERIAL SIZING LUBE. And I started using HORNADY ONE SHOT for loading .223, .308 & .30-06 for loading on a progressive loader for semi-auto's. I use the special short "nylon?" Loading blocks made by SINCLAIR just for spraying on case lube. Never had a stuck case with the HORNADY ONE SHOT or IMPERIAL SIZING DIE WAX. Even when reloading NORMA brass fired out of the FLUTED CHAMBER of a SIG PE-57.

I had my only stuck case ever while I was teaching a newbie to reload .25-06 for his RUGER M77. I didn't watch to make sure he ACTUALLY ROLLED THE CASES OVER THE LUBE PAD. It may have taken an entire 5 minutes to locate the "Stuck case remover" and remove the stuck case. He learned the hard way to roll those cases across the pad every time. I'm only into my 6ixth bottle of Case-Lube & 2nd tin of IMPERIAL SIZING DIE WAX in almost 50yrs loading on my own setup. Get about 1000-1500 cases lubed using HORNADY spray lube, depends on size of case .223 to .30-06 and how heavy handed I get with the spray.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I've tried a few case lubes over the years. I like Hornady One Shot for inside the case necks and good old RCBS case lube on the pad for the case bodies. Almost zero friction running them up into the sizer die. I know they are coming out uniform then and it's easier on me and my press. Sure, I have to wash the cases off in soapy water, rinse and dry them but I only do that once because then I neck size only.

[donald duck]

My lube for all sizing and cast forming for over 40 years is Rislone oil additive. Shaler Rislone is the greatest oil additive to totally eliminate a sticky lifter. My father-in-law was a Ford shop manager for over forty years and he thought the two greatest automotive additives were Chemtol B-12 for dirty carbuerators and to clean fuel injectors and Shaler Rislone. I add a pint to each oil change in my 2003 Honda Pilot. I tilt up the bottle and let it drip into a prescription bottle. This I use for lubing all cases. A Q tip inside the case mouth and a wipe around the outside of the case. Have had one stuck case in 40 years. I clean all my cases again after sizing and depriming.

[Walks]

I've been reloading for almost 60yrs. Had one stuck bottleneck rifle case. Using RCBS Case Lube-2 on a lube pad.

Was teaching a newbie about reloading. Laid 5 clean .25-06 cases on top of a Lube pad. FORGOT to roll the cases across the pad. First case stuck, 30yrs of reloading, FIRST STUCK CASE. Got to use that stuck case remover kit I'd bought 10yrs before.

I use HORNADY Spray Lube now. Stuff works GREAT.
.38-40, .44-40, 5.56, 7.62 & .30-06.

I use the Special spray Lube blocks that SINCLAIR INT'L sells. They are sort off like loading blocks.
But have only 2 staggered rows of shallow holes and are specifically made To apply SPRAY LUBE.

I also use IMPERIAL SIZING DIE WAX, for that odd case when you're just adjusting a die or making up a dummy round.

And last night I finally stuck a case into a EXPANDER DIE !!!

Was loading on a progressive and paying so much attention to the Powder Measure, that I set a case on top of the Shellplate instead of into the slot. What a pain to get that case off the expander.

[1hole]

When I wrote my spiel on case lubes it never occurred to me that it would ever become a "sticky" with more than 60 responses. I still experiment with lubes, both commercial and substitutes; someday I'll post a few surprising things I've continued to learn.

I read posts of "I use this XXX lube and never had a stuck case" and "I tried YYY (or XXX!) and got stuck cases". I don't want to twist anyone's tail but, if any good lube is used, all such comments offer little value.

Fact is, the reason most case rims get pulled off is due to a single operator problem; IMPROPER APPLICATION! I don't care what commercial (or good substitute) sizing lube anyone uses, if the stuff isn't properly applied the cases WILL get stuck! When that happens to YOU, learn from the experience but don't blame the lube.

[pete501]

Most of the time I lube with a mix of RCBS Lube dissolved in Alcohol sprayed liberally into tubs of brass ready for resizing. Yeah it worked but I was sick of that sticky mess lanolin was leaving. My stainless pins were polluted with the goo. My shells came out of the tumbler with a black crud. Dawn wasn't cutting the lanolin and I was forced to use white gas to rid the residue.

I was looking for a non-toxic, water soluble lube. Poly-water came to mind. The phone company used to use it for pulling cable through conduit. It came in 5 gallon pails.

I found a product which fills the bill. Dollar Tree sells a personal lube WARMING TOUCH which contains Propylene Glycol, Polyethylene Glycol, Hydroxypropyl Celulose, and Lactic Acid. And in much more convenient size; 2 ounce tube.

For the test I squeeze a dab in my palms and rubbed it around, then rolled brass between your hands. It worked great on the 30-06 and best of all it cleaned up with soap and water.

[Shawlerbrook]

There are many problems that are still searching for a solution. Luckily with Imperial Sizing Wax, finding the right case lube to use isn’t one of them.

[Rod B]

There are many problems that are still searching for a solution. Luckily with Imperial Sizing Wax, finding the right case lube to use isn’t one of them.

I agree, I first tried it last year. My spray lube & lube pad have not been used since.

[C-dubb]

Only stuck cases I ever got was with One Shot. After I read the instructions and realized that you need to let it dry a few minutes, I never had another stuck case. I just stand the brass in a block and spray at a downward angle from front and back. That way I get lube inside and out. Much easier than a gooey pad.

[Engineer1911]

I learned some "interesting lubrication" information from this sticky. Next time I resize brass, my home made lube will get a spoonful of Dawn dishwashing liquid, a product that has many uses besides the kitchen sink.

[GONRA]

GONRA found "STP Oil Treatment" or "Tri Flo Synthetic Grease" both suit the most difficult / beatup "scrap dealer"
.50 BMG and 14.5x114mm Soviet Lacquered Steel Case Chicom "case preps".
>>> We're talkin' FULL LENGTH RESIZING and UNIFORM HEADSPACE. <<<