Stuck cases vs lube type

[rbuck351]

I have tried several case lubes over the years and have stuck cases with a couple. Mostly the old rcbs stp like stuff and hornady one shot. I am currently using hornady unique case lube and it makes the sizing much easier than anything else I have used so far. I just got a tin of Imperial sizing wax but haven't tried it yet. Anyway, what I'm wondering is, what lube were you using when you stuck a case. And also, has anyone stuck a case while using either unique case lube or imperial sizing wax? What do you think is the best lube for preventing stuck cases while sizing. Ease of use doesn't concern me as much as the least amount of pressure on the press handle.

[1hole]

"...what I'm wondering is, what lube were you using when you stuck a case. And also, has anyone stuck a case while using either unique case lube or imperial sizing wax?"

Okay, a couple of good, short questions. But, they really don't have short proper answers, it's just not as simple as you appear to surmise.

First, I've been loading a loooong time and have used virtually every commercal lube on the market and have tried a LOT of other things as substitutes, just out of curosity. With the commercial lubes I have stuck quite a few cases but each one was MY FAULT, not the lube's. I mean, IF I properly applied a proper lube I've never had a stuck case. I've made a good number of .22-250 cases from .30-06 cases and know that the lube used makes little real difference if it's used correctly, they all get stuck if not done properly.

When I started loading, all case lubes were pretty much the same; all were basiccally STP, applied with a pad that was soon "dirty" as well as messy. It worked good but I hated those pads and hated getting my fingers in the goo. So I soon started trying to find a better choice. Ditto the loading companies, so today few of us use the old oily types that can harm both powder and primers.

Basically, we have three lube types; spray, water soluable and wax. Which we use, or should use, depends a whole lot on the volume and how we prefer to apply it. They all work very well and, so far as I know, none of them are harmful to powder or primers.

Water soluables, Lee's white stuff, RCBS, etc, are basically soaps. They are easy to apply with finger tips or even a pad if we wish. They are excellant case lubes IF properly applied. Good substitutes include some bath/bar soaps having a high lanolin content. Some "saddle" soaps. The various electrical cable/wire pulling lubracants (soft soaps) such as Gardner-Bender (GB) are sold in quarts at Lowe's, H'Depot and electrical supply houses for very little cost considering the quanity.

Commerial wax lubes include Imperial and Unique. They are soft enough to touch our finger tips to and transfer the wax to each case as we pick them up. Waxes are clean and easy to remove from both fingers and cases. I really like them. Good substitutes include Kiwi "Mink Oil", "Sno-Proof", "Snow Seal", etc., leather boot treatments, all soft waxes. Pretty good, workable for sure, substitutes include Johnson Paste Wax and others of that type, Kiwi (Neutral) Shoe Wax, the soft wax-lube sticks marketed for lubing auto door latches, Chap-Stick lip balm, Oldham saw blade lube for woodworkers. Some of the toilet wax ring seals sold to plumbers are good too but tend to be more greasy than other waxes.

Sprays seem to be mostly mixtures of lanolin and alcohol. Sprays are best when doing large quanities of cases, especially so with a progressive press. All of the spray lubes have the lube itself mixed with a rapid drying solvent, the alcohol or another "carrier". They don't stay mixed so it's necessary to shake the containers well before AND during use to keep them mixed. Then allow sufficent time for the carrier to evaporate before attempting to size.

It appears that many users get failures with sprays because they spray their cases standing in a loading block which effectively shields the lower part from getting much lube in the critical area! That's NOT a good idea! When I use sprays (which is seldom because I'm not a high volume loader) I place the cases on a sheet of newspaper to catch the over-spray and that allows me to spray the entire case, IF I roll them around a little while doing it.

If the user only shakes the spray once before use the contents will seperate. By the time he gets to the bottom of the can there is ltttle lube left. With only carrier remaining, he WILL get stuck cases. Moral: Shake it up, often, as it's used and cover the full case length.

No matter the type of lube, WE MUST LUBE THE LOWER CASE OR THEY WILL GET STUCK! Sticking has virtually nothing to do with the internal finish of a sizer die, nor the brand of case, nor how much the case must be sized down; it has to do with a lack of lube where it's needed, period. It's clear that many reloaders over-lube the upper half of their cases and apply too little to the lower part. Excess lube up high makes lube dents on the shoulder, too little on the thicker, harder lower part assures many stuck cases.

A final factor, especially when a die has been cleaned internally, is to cover the die wall with a good layer of lube before sholving the first few cases home. Doing that is easily achieved by giving the first 2-4 cases an extra thick coat AND then inserting those few cases into the die in a series of 4-5 short strokes, allowing the lube to move around on the die walls a bit before pushing the the cases fully up. I clean my size dies internally prior to each use so this start-up step is VERY important or I will get STUCK CASES, no matter what lube I'm using.

Bottom line; the type or brand of case lube we use is largely irrelivant but the way we apply it and use it is not.

[bohokii]

all i can say is now that ive been using petroleum jelly ive had no problems

[Recluse]

I have three different case lubes on my bench--Lee, Imperial and some old RCBS vaseline type stuff.

Of them, I've only had stuck cases with the Imperial. Oddly enough, it was with .223 cases only, and with both Hornady and RCBS dies--but have not had a stuck .223 case using Imperial with Lee dies. Go figure.

So, for .223 caliber, I only use the Lee lube. I don't load, nor shoot, a lot of .223 so doing the hand-lubing doesn't bother me. When the sizing, decapping, chamfering, etc is all done, I toss the cases into the Thumler's and let it run for several hours. Shiny, clean brass.

Of the lubes I use most often, that would be the Imperial. It is THE lube I use for my .30 caliber rifle rounds, and I lube about every tenth to fifteenth pistol case when loading on a progressive or single stage. Just seems to make the sizing go easier and smoother.

:coffee:

[John Guedry]

I've had cases stick with all the lubes I've used (rcbs lyman and imperial). Having said that I think it was operator error in each case. I think if you don't apply them correctly you're gonna' get stuck cases.

[R.C. Hatter]

:Fire:Back in the 60's most case lubes were messy, gooey, and made case lube pads dirty. I then began using Crisco and found it very acceptable as a case lube. Today, I prefer the Lee resizing lube, as it cleans up better than others I've tried, with only isopropyl alcohol on a rag or paper towel.

[StarMetal]

Currently I'm using Imperial Wax. I do have a can of Hornady One Shot on the bench and it's the aerosol can, not the pump. The same stuff in the pump isn't as good. Talked to a Hornady tech about the pump type and he said he wished they quit making it because like I noted to him it's different then the aerosol can type. He sent me two cans of aerosol as I had lots of problems with the pump. He also said I was correct being pump had more water in it that it was possible to rust your sizing die.

Most often stuck cases can be traced back to improper lubing in some form.

Joe

[AZ-Stew]

I used the gooey RCBS lube for years, then started having problems with it when sizing 45-70 cases. I found something that worked (can't remember off the top of my head), but eventually discovered Hornady Unique Lube. Love that stuff. I have been working out of a tub of it for many years.

Recently I started having problems sticking .223 cases in the sizer. The die set was bought back in the 70s and has had thousands of rounds through it with no problems. All of a sudden, cases started sticking. I thought the lube had gone bad, so I went and bought a new tub of Unique and a new RCBS case lube pad to eliminate the possibility of contamination from the old lube. The first case with the new lube setup stuck in the die. After pulling the case, I hosed out the inside of the die with brake cleaner, then applied a liberal coat of the new Unique lube to the inside of the sizer using a 1/2 inch dia. X 1.5 inch long cotton swab on a twisted wire handle (you've seen them before). Lubed up another case and IT stuck. Repeat. Repeated again with a brand new Remington .223 case that just came out of the bag. IT stuck. None of the pulled cases showed marks that would indicate a scratched die. I've been at this for 35 years and haven't scratched one yet.

I ordered a Forster die set with the micrometer seater and a new shell holder. All the problems went away. This die set is a Cadillac. If I could afford to replace all my RCBS dies with these Forsters, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Don't get me wrong, RCBS makes good stuff, but the Forsters are a cut above.

My next task is to send the RCBS sizer back with some of the fired cases I've been trying to size with it and see what they say.

It wasn't the lube.

Regards,

Stew

[StarMetal]

I used the gooey RCBS lube for years, then started having problems with it when sizing 45-70 cases. I found something that worked (can't remember off the top of my head), but eventually discovered Hornady Unique Lube. Love that stuff. I have been working out of a tub of it for many years.

Recently I started having problems sticking .223 cases in the sizer. The die set was bought back in the 70s and has had thousands of rounds through it with no problems. All of a sudden, cases started sticking. I thought the lube had gone bad, so I went and bought a new tub of Unique and a new RCBS case lube pad to eliminate the possibility of contamination from the old lube. The first case with the new lube setup stuck in the die. After pulling the case, I hosed out the inside of the die with brake cleaner, then applied a liberal coat of the new Unique lube to the inside of the sizer using a 1/2 inch dia. X 1.5 inch long cotton swab on a twisted wire handle (you've seen them before). Lubed up another case and IT stuck. Repeat. Repeated again with a brand new Remington .223 case that just came out of the bag. IT stuck. None of the pulled cases showed marks that would indicate a scratched die. I've been at this for 35 years and haven't scratched one yet.

I ordered a Forster die set with the micrometer seater and a new shell holder. All the problems went away. This die set is a Cadillac. If I could afford to replace all my RCBS dies with these Forsters, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Don't get me wrong, RCBS makes good stuff, but the Forsters are a cut above.

My next task is to send the RCBS sizer back with some of the fired cases I've been trying to size with it and see what they say.

It wasn't the lube.

Regards,

Stew

AZ,

About the dies. I use to rate Redding the premium die years ago. Today I rate the Forster as the better one. You're right about them. One thing I noticed is Forster doesn't sell any handgun die sets. You know they bought Bonanza years ago and Bonanza sold both rifle and handgun dies. Wonder why Forster doesn't anymore?

Joe

[rickster]

I was having problems with stuck cases until I figured out that grit (sand) from the cases was becoming embedded in the dies. I hadnt gotten sand cleaned off the spent cases. Got worse and worse. Tried different lubes. Unique worked best. Became obvious when I started seeing scratches on the resized cases.
Tried to clean and polish the dies. No joy. Bought new dies. Problem solved.

[rbuck351]

Ok. Interesting and useful responses. I have been loading for 40+ years and although stuck cases haven't been a real problem, I have stuck 3 or 4. After reading your responses and thinking on it, the problem may very well have been improperly used lube. However I do believe that some lubes are better than others. I was sizing some 338WMs that may have been shot in a loose chamber as they were going in about 2/3 of the way and became very difficult to push in farther. So, pull them back out and apply more lube and try again. Still very tight. Pull them out again and use Hornady unique on them and they slide in and out with little effort. Tried some more that had not yet been lubed with unique and in and out with little effort. Then back to the one shot and more cases trying to stick. Add a little unique and in and out with ease. So, although improper use of lube or bad or damaged dies can cause stuck cases, I do believe some lubes are much better than others. So, although I am slow to change my ways and don't take advice well, this site has proven to be a wealth of knowledge and if there's a lube or monkeysnot of some sort that is better lets hear about it.[smilie=b:

[1hole]

"if there's a lube or monkeysnot of some sort that is better lets hear about it. "

Obviously there are differences in lubes and surely no one would suggest otherwise. While they all "work", some are better in some respects but not every one NEEEDS the lube with the highest "snot factor".

It seems you are using what you want to hear about. It's also clear that some folks even stick cases with it!

[Bullshop]

Has anyone here tried Bullsize case lube from The Bullshop?
If so lets hear about it.
In the origonal post about it we showed some 30/06 to 257 Roberts in one pass.
I used Imperial for 20 years but think Bullsize is better. Not just because we make it but because in side by side comparison it worked better.
BIC/BS

[stubshaft]

I've used Imperial for over 30 years and have never gotten a stuck case. One tin lasts a looong time. When I finally run out I may try Bullsize.

[mooman76]

The only thing I had problems with was the one shot. Probably didn't let it dry enough but it's enough of a problem that I won't use it much except case where littl lube is needed. I have used the Lee, Imperial, Franklin Arsinal and RCBS with the pad with no problems

[rbuck351]

I admit that I like Unique lube but I just bought a tin of imperial to try and now that I'm aware of Bullsize i will be trying that as well. The object of my question is to find out if there is something better ( for me ) than what i'm now using. Any other suggestions will be tried as well. Someone suggested vasoline and that too will be tried. I'm not looking for confirmation of my loading methods, just trying to find out if there's something better. Thanks all for suggestions.. Buck

[crabo]

I have been using some lanolin for some 45/70 cases. Anyone know if it will work on 308s?

[Lloyd Smale]

anhyrdrous lanolin and imperial sizing wax in my opinion are the same thing. Both work well on even tough sizing jobs and lanolin is about a tenth the cost.
I have been using some lanolin for some 45/70 cases. Anyone know if it will work on 308s?

[jerrold]

IMHO
Imperial Wax when used properly cann't be beat

[plumber]

I use Dillon lube now, haven't had one problem. The only
lube I've had issues with is Hornady One Shot.

[Mk42gunner]

Like a lot of people I started out using RCBS case lube and a pad. I didn't really like using the pad, it was too easy to get way too much lube on a case; but it was the only game in town (I thought).

After several years and about a million moves thanks to the Navy, I discovered Midway's aerosol, (I don't remember the name but it was before they started labelling everything Frankford Arsenal). I liked it, it was easy to use and it worked. Of course when I ran out I was in a hurry and didn't want to wait for it to be shipped; which leads to:

I spied a can of Hornady One Shot in the local Liquor/Gun Store. I said to myself, "Self, that is the same size as the Midway can, it's probably the same stuff," or words to that effect. It wasn't. I stuck a few cases, even after reading the directions. I'd be going along just fine, then all of a sudden a case would stick.

I was processing a lot of 5.56 brass in a Lee die at the time; I would resize the case, swage the primer pocket on a Dillion super swage, then pop it in the tumbler. I started using a light mist of WD-40 -- it worked, and the tumbling media absorbed the oil.

After I retired I thought I would try the One Shot again; same results. I got the idea to use STP from NV Curmudgin. Now I am set for the next couple of decades, at least.

Sorry for being so long winded,

Robert

[captaint]

Fellas, I'm one of those who have used Imperial for 25 years. Hope I live long enough to use up the spare tin. Haven't stuck a case yet with it and it wipes right off. Can't beat the stuff. Also hope I outlive my supply of Bullplate. Enjoy Mike

[stephen perry]

All I can say since you have the Imperial on your bench try it. I use it exclusively for my PPC cartridges at the Range. I use it straight out of the can no pad. Buy the big can you will probably never use it up. I have used up one small can and am part way through my second can. I have 2 back up cans.

If you choose to use a pad buy a new one and start with RCBS case lube and nothing else. RCBS makes a nice pad but so do others. I got rid of a set of Forrester .223 dies because they were under sized and no matter what lube used on factory cases the heads pulled off during the sizing operation. Went to an RCBS die set and couldn't be happier. If your case begins to size half way down the case your dies are to small get rid of them, no need to size that much. Hornady makes nice dies as well as RCBS and Lyman.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR :brokenima

[Lloyd Smale]

had to laugh pal i just made a post in the shooters forum about just that. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=68247
Has anyone here tried Bullsize case lube from The Bullshop?
If so lets hear about it.
In the origonal post about it we showed some 30/06 to 257 Roberts in one pass.
I used Imperial for 20 years but think Bullsize is better. Not just because we make it but because in side by side comparison it worked better.
BIC/BS

[Char-Gar]

I resist progress whenever I can and still use the old oily lubes on the pad I started with 51 years ago. I have never had a stuck case, nor had the lube bother powder or primer. These days I am using Vactra 2 Way Oil. slick stuff?

[stephen perry]

Chargar
You must remember CH case lube. Maybe not better than any other but I still have my CH lube pad with CH lube on it, have 3 bottles left. I must admit though I have tried STP even the stuff K-Mart sold. STP is too thick needs to be cut with something like acetone. My 47 years is pale to your 51 years.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR :holysheep

[madsenshooter]

I first tried Imperial when I had a project of swaging 7.62x51 GI brass down to make better fiting 6.5 jap. I haven't had any reason to change since then. I have tried clear shoe polish (the type in a tin) and found that it works about as good. I'm a single stage loader, so I have no reason to get in a hurry to lube a bunch of cases. It was over 10 years ago I got my first tin of Imperial, I'm still working on it!

[Echo]

Being as how I like to stay with what works, but still like to try out new ideas. For MANY years I have used Alemite CD-2 for case lube, and have never had a problem. Have NEVER used a pad. Use a tumbler. But.

I tried a spray-on lube (that I bought at a gun show) - followed the instructions, sprayed it on, let the brass set for a while, then promptly stuck the first .223 case I ran into the sizing die. Went through the hassle of pulling the case, straightened out the setup, and stuck the next case. Carrumba. Have not used the spray-on since, and will not, ever.

I heard that Murphy's Oil Soap could be used, so I put some (too much!) in a large Zip-Lock bag, dumped a 100 -06 cases in, went through some more hassles, and stuck another case. No more Murphy's for me...

So. It's back to the CD-2. I put a SMALL amount (size of a bean) into the tumbler, tumble the brass for about 20 minutes, and have at it...

[StarMetal]

Being as how I like to stay with what works, but still like to try out new ideas. For MANY years I have used Alemite CD-2 for case lube, and have never had a problem. Have NEVER used a pad. Use a tumbler. But.

I tried a spray-on lube (that I bought at a gun show) - followed the instructions, sprayed it on, let the brass set for a while, then promptly stuck the first .223 case I ran into the sizing die. Went through the hassle of pulling the case, straightened out the setup, and stuck the next case. Carrumba. Have not used the spray-on since, and will not, ever.

I heard that Murphy's Oil Soap could be used, so I put some (too much!) in a large Zip-Lock bag, dumped a 100 -06 cases in, went through some more hassles, and stuck another case. No more Murphy's for me...

So. It's back to the CD-2. I put a SMALL amount (size of a bean) into the tumbler, tumble the brass for about 20 minutes, and have at it...


You mentioned Murphy's soap. You can take just about any brand of hard bath soap and rub your case with it and it will work too.

Joe