plastic balistic tips

[BT Sniper]

Well guys I mentioned that I had ordered 1K worth of plastic hole plugs used in skis and can't waite to give them a try on top of the 5.7x308 bullet.

A question for anyone with knowledge of working with plastic. The plug allready has a point and may be nearly perfect in shape but I will still be swaging it with the bullet into the point forming die. I imagine the chance that it actually will change and hold a new shape is slim unless....... this is where some one with knowledge comes in.

Do you suppose the plastic could be preheated some how softening it, allowing it to conform to the shape of the point forming die.

Just thinking ahead of myself here as I don't even have them yet but will be experimenting for sure.

Good shooting

BT

[JohnM]

We looked at making plastic tips for resale last year. The main problem we came up against was keeping the injection machine in a constant heat range, which would produce inconstant tip sizes. We thought maybe having a cutter (similar to a pencil sharper) for doing the finishing shape might work…..

John

[BT Sniper]

So any ideas how Nosler does it?

[deltaenterprizes]

So any ideas how Nosler does it?

If you pull the plastic tip out of a ballistic tip there is a big hollow point and the plastic part looks like an umbrella.

[MIBULLETS]

I have used the ski hole plugs, they will conform to the die a little. So it might be fine how it is for you. I found that if you point the bullet first without the tip until you can just snap the tip in the hole is the best way for me. Then just run it back in just a little deeper to crimp it in. I had to have the core in the right place to support the base of the tip, but once I figured out the right core weight it went pretty well.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks MI

I have also seen a nose formed from a 22LR that was just awesome. Was that you too?

[BT Sniper]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/Bullets007.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/Bullets005.jpg

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,155346.0.html

Saw this a while back and thought is was pretty darn cool.

[MIBULLETS]

Nope, wasn't me, but I have basically copied what he did.

I remember these pictures too, pretty cool!

[BT Sniper]

So do you have some cool pics to share MI ?

[sagacious]

...
A question for anyone with knowledge of working with plastic. The plug allready has a point and may be nearly perfect in shape but I will still be swaging it with the bullet into the point forming die. I imagine the chance that it actually will change and hold a new shape is slim unless....... this is where some one with knowledge comes in.
...
The profile will be affected (changed) to some degree when the jacket is compressed into the plastic during nose-forming. Otherwise, they will retain their profile during elastic compression, but can be reformed during plastic deformation. That is my experience.

There is more than one type, and they are made from different plastics, so there's no one single answer that covers all types. Some are very hard and resist deformation very well. Some (I think the ones you ordered) are very soft, and can be deformed relatively easily.

Hope this helps, and makes sense. :drinks:

[BT Sniper]

"Otherwise, they will retain their profile during elastic compression, but can be reformed during plastic deformation. That is my experience."

I'm sure i could google those two terms but if you got a secound for the simple minded..........what? :???:

Thanks can't wait to giv it a try.

BT

[sagacious]

"Otherwise, they will retain their profile during elastic compression, but can be reformed during plastic deformation. That is my experience."

I'm sure i could google those two terms but if you got a secound for the simple minded..........what? :???:

Thanks can't wait to giv it a try.

BT

LOL! :) OK, here's a second try. If you squash the tips just a bit (elastic compression) during the point-forming stage, they'll return to their original shape. Elastic compression is just when you squash something, and it springs back to shape, like a tennis ball.

If you squash the tips to the point where they start to flow (plastic deformation), then they will be retain that deformation. Plastic deformation is when you squash something to the point that it takes on a new shape, like a lead core during swaging takes the shape of the die cavity.

But, like I said, there are different types (or at least different hardnesses) of plastics involved here, and results may vary with different operators and different dies, so you'll have to give it a go with your equipment and application. May work for your application, may not. Try and see how it goes.

[BT Sniper]

"If you squash the tips to the point where they start to flow"

I didn't know this was possible. I figured plastic would just break instead.

THanks though I'm sure I'll find out soon enough

Would heating up the plastic somehow before point forming make a difference?

[sagacious]

Yes, the soft ones will flow if enough pressure is applied, and there's somewhere for them to flow to. The soft ones are softer than soft lead. And you're right, the harder ones will certainly crack when too much compression is applied. That can be a problem if the last moment of your point-forming operation requires a lot of pressure. Proper die adjustment can be critical.

Heating them before swaging may indeed make a difference for how they work for you. You can try setting a small handfull on one of those coffee-mug warmers, or a hotplate set on warm, or something similar.

[303Guy]

BT Sniper\

Technically, 'plastic' is not a material or type of material but rather, it is a condition of a material. Lead undergoes 'plastic' deformation or flow when squashed and so on. An 'elastic' material is like an 'elastic band'. It returns to its original shape. So 'elastic' deformation is temporary while 'plastic' deformation is permanent. Does that clarify or confuse?:mrgreen:

P.S. the correct term for plastic materials is 'plastics' - or just 'plastic material'.
Think of 'Hoovering' your carpet - vacuum cleaning!:drinks:

[BT Sniper]

I have been waiting at the door for the Fed-ex truck to pull up. I think like everything else in this hobby I'm going to have to just give it a try. You guys certainly gave me somthing to think about.

303, Man that has been some good work you have done on the no more core seating thread. Keep it up.

Good shooting

BT

[JohnM]

So any ideas how Nosler does it?

My guess is that they mould the tips into the projectile as it’s almost impossible to pull them out. They also use a harder plastic that has a different smell (when burnt) to Hornady tips that are softer plastic and easier to pull out.
Maybe Nosler have found a plastic injection machine that the heat can be controlled enough to overcome any inconstancy in the heat range?

I know that there is nothing special with the machines Sierra use to make bullets, so can’t see anyone else being different….

John

[MIBULLETS]

BT, here is a pic of some of the bullets I've made with the ski hole plugs. Left to right, .358 caliber 200 gr bullet using copper water pipe for the jacket with a tip made from a fired 22 long rifle case, .243 caliber 100 gr with a plastic tip, .224 caliber 55 gr 22 long rifle jacket with plastic tip, and .224 caliber 35 gr 22 short jacket with plastic tip.

[BT Sniper]

MI,

You are way to humble. I have not had results like yours yet and I probably bost more then I should. Those look great. I can only hope to bug you enough now for more info on all the cool tricks you can do. I did read over the "bullet tip" thread at GBO about using the 22LR for a bullet tip. Someday maybe some one will post a good thread as to how it is done.

That 243 looks pretty long, How do these shoot for you?

Later

BT

[MIBULLETS]

BT, you are right, the 243 is pretty long. I have not shot it yet. I have a 243 Winchester with a 1 in 10" twist barrel, so it may not stabilize, but I think a 1 in 9" would be fine. After deer season I will probably start testing again.

The 22 case tip that I made is not quite as an elaborate process as Rick's in the thread you are refering to, but it seems to work and is locked into place quite tightly. All I do is push the bullet in the point forming die until the hole in the tip is just big enough to slide in one of my 22 cases formed into a 22 jacket. Then I push the bullet back into the point forming die. I have not sectioned a bullet, but it feels like the 22 jacket slides into the lead core some until it get close to the end of the press stroke. It usually looks OK at this point but I turn the point forming die in just maybe a half a turn or so and push the bullet in a little further to crimp the tip in place. I knew I wouldn't have the tip forming dies that rick did, so I just tried it like this and it seems fine and they shoot as good as bullets made without the tip.

[303Guy]

Thank you, BT Sniper. I've been following your threads with interest. We don't have common pistol ranges and so I have no supply of suitable pistol cases to make bullets from - besides 22LR cases. I bought a packet of 'airsoft' pellets with the intention of using them for swaging 303 Brit boolits with the pellets crimped into a nose cavity but haven't gotten that far yet. (Work interferes with one's fun, doesn't it? Sixty hour weeks doesn't exactly leave much time for experimenting!)

[algunjunkie]

Hey guys, first post so please bear with me.

I've been swaging my own bullets for a few years now. When I insert a plastic tip, I use an Air Soft pellet. The biggest problem that I'm having is the tips aren't forming a point, they are more rounded. I know that the tips that I'm using in no way aids in expansion but it does help in auto feeding guns. I'm sure there are a few little things that I could do to fix them.

Here is a pic for you of them.
http://algunjunkie.webs.com/photos/SANY0520.JPG

[ANeat]

Flat tip or not thats a good looking bullet.

Welcome,

[303Guy]

Good to 'meet' you, algunjunkie and welcome aboard. :drinks:

That swaging don't look broke to me - why fix it?:mrgreen:
In fact, it looks pretty neat!

I would appreciate you taking us through your method (I just got back from bullet shopping and realize a strong need to make my own - I didn't get any today :( ) preferably with pics if you have any.[smilie=1:

Why do you say the plastic tip won't aid in expansion? I was hoping it would.

I have a packet of airsoft pellets and haven't figured out how to use them. I would actually like to use them for a 'ballistic tip' for my paper patched 303 Brit boolits.

[algunjunkie]

I don't want to highjack this thread so i'll start a new one and do you one better.

[BT Sniper]

Great job there Gun Junkie. Thanks for steping up and joining in.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Got 1K worth of the ski hole plugs today. Got to looking and thinking and the hornady critical defence bullet came to mind.

If we put the tip down with the flat part up I would think it would look pretty cool in the .355-.400 pistol bullet range.

I'll give it all a try some day soon.

BT

[303Guy]

I have finally had a few moments to play around on my lathe. I produces a hollow point making plug but the plastic BB is too big and too hard to squeeze in. So for now, that mold will be relegaded to producing hollow points - 200grs. The next mold will have a generous nose cavity!

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-373F.jpg