Where do you start?

[crabo]

I have a new friend that is getting his new Shiloh Sharps in 45/70 this month. (thanks Charlie) He came over and cast some boolits for my guiide gun, but is ready to gear up for the Sharps.

What recommendations do you have for break in and load developement. I know that the gun often changes as you shoot it. What would be a good mold to start with?

Where would you start and what recommendations would you make? He is going to shoot BPCR silhouette.

Thanks,

[Lead pot]

I would say the Lyman postell cast with a Brooks or Paul Jones mould is about the most forgiving bullet to start with.

[longhorn]

Just get the Buffalo Arms catalog and order one of everything...........well, not really. GOOD .45-70 dies, a drop tube, a compression die. Wad material (I use plastic) and a wad cutter. Commercial alloy. Plenty of GOEX FFg or Cartridge, all one lot number. A big lead pot is nice. Black Magic or SPG lube.

I second the Lyman Postell, or he could just simplify everything and order a Steve Brooks mold--Brooks knows Shilohs, and the mold will flat work.

All this assuming he'll be shooting the Holy Black...........

[crabo]

He is shooting the holy black and has considered buying a Paul Jones or Brooks mold. My 45/70 molds are for hunting and not long range.

[EDK]

Get a copy of Mike Venturino's SHOOTING BUFFALO RIFLES OF THE OLD WEST (get it autographed when you order it from him) and the SPG BLACK POWDER RELOADING PRIMER for some basic info. Randolph Wrights LOADING AND SHOOTING PAPER PATCH BULLETS, A BEGINNER'S GUIDE has a lot of basic information for reloading also.

Start hanging out at shilohrifle.com/forums and bpcr.net. Go back and read everything there is that might apply. Lots of information out there for the asking.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[montana_charlie]

"Get a copy of Mike Venturino's SHOOTING BUFFALO RIFLES OF THE OLD WEST (get it autographed when you order it from him) and the SPG BLACK POWDER RELOADING PRIMER for some basic info. Randolph Wrights LOADING AND SHOOTING PAPER PATCH BULLETS, A BEGINNER'S GUIDE has a lot of basic information for reloading also.

Start hanging out at shilohrifle.com/forums and bpcr.net. Go back and read everything there is that might apply."

And tell him to start doing this about a year ago...to be ready to shoot this month.
CM

[August]

Go to Badger Barrels website and read the cautions about breaking in a barrel. Foremost among the break in procedure is never letting the barrel get hot during this time. I have followed their advice, figuring they probably know something about it.

I agree with the Postell recommendation and the Jones or Brooks origin for the mould. I believe Jones will make this up for you in a bore rider configuration, which is a definite advantage.

Do not bother trying to shoot that rifle with any bullets lighter than 500 grains. It would be like running a sports car on walmart tires.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Forget the Badger Barrels stuff your buddies Shiloh is button rifled and all you will do is copper foul it. Badger's break in is for their cut rifled barrels which are a good deal rougher inside finish, (fine barrels just a different rifling System). Kirk Bryan of Shiloh will never tell you to use a badger method to break in your new Shiloh.

KW

The Lunger

[longhorn]

Kirk's comment on "break in" is "Just go shoot it." I know--I asked.

[Don McDowell]

I have a new friend that is getting his new Shiloh Sharps in 45/70 this month. (Where would you start and what recommendations would you make? He is going to shoot BPCR silhouette.

Thanks,

20-1, 500-535 gr bullet sized .459 lubed with spg, sagebrush or black magic lube.
winchester 45-70 cases (remington if he prefers)
large pistol primer (large rifle is ok, but leave the magnums for something else)
68 grs goex Cartridge
.030 fiber wad.

seat the bullet to the driving band.No crimp other than to just remove the flare of the case mouth.

[Freightman]

Forget the Badger Barrels stuff your buddies Shiloh is button rifled and all you will do is copper foul it. Badger's break in is for their cut rifled barrels which are a good deal rougher inside finish, (fine barrels just a different rifling System). Kirk Bryan of Shiloh will never tell you to use a badger method to break in your new Shiloh.

KW

The Lunger
10/4 on the difference, my Shiloh has the best barrel I have ever shot period. Kenny will guide you right listen to him.

[NickSS]

The only thing I ever did with my Shiloh rifles is shoot them. I never broke in the barrel and it shot the same from day 1 until now (19 years later). For a beginning just pour about 60 gr of FFG slowly down a 30 inch drop tube, add a .030 vegetable fiber wad and seat a 535 gr Lyman Postel bullet cast from 20-1 or 30-1 lead tin alloy and shoot away. You can use any black powder lube and you will end up with some good shooting. By all means get the SPG reloading manual or Mike's book there is good info in them that I have used. YOu can easily refine your loads as time goes on as well and try different bullets etc. That is the fun of BP there is always something new to try.

[crabo]

I just found out there is a range about an hour away that will let me bring my steel targets and can shoot to 300 yards. This will be cool.

[Lead Fred]

large pistol primer (large rifle is ok, but leave the magnums for something else)
.

Lucy you got some splaining to do.

Every dangthing I have on BP shooting, says to use magnum primers.

So why are you saying not to?

I just bought a 1000 primers to use just in the 45-70.

[Don McDowell]

Well lets just say if you're going to use a "magnum" primer and you want accuracy, ain't gonna happen. Now if its a "magnum" pistol primer accuracy will be better.
Mind you we're not talking putting a bullet fired from a handirife,commonly found in a lee mold into a 2inch group at 50 yds. I'm talking about putting a good bullet into 2 inch groups at 2 and 300 yds type accuracy. With the ability to go on out to 1000 and still hold 2 moa, if the shooter and rifle are capable

[Mike Venturino]

My opinion is that the type of black powder used has a great influence on the primer needed. Back in the '80s and early '90s we used magnums because anything that helped built pressure and get that Goex powder to burn more cleanly was good.

With today's Goex Express and Swiss powders many people use the CCI Benchrest.

Shiloh does not recommend pistol primers in their rifles.

MLV

[Don McDowell]

Yes some folks back then in did in fact use magnum primers. Myself I never saw the need for them. Still have a few pounds of 2f from the Belin and Moosic plants, and ever once in awhile I build up a few rounds using standard primers, and it still lobs bullets thru the same hole at 100 yds, and the chrono still shows about 1fps deviation.........

One thing that comes up interesting is looking at the old Winchester reloading data, they specifically repremand you not to use black powder primers with the new smokeless powders as the black powder primers will not reliably ignite smokeless powders....
Fast forward 100 years and we see folks using primers with paper wads over the flash hole to dampen and spread the flame from the primers......

[montana_charlie]

But...if magnum primers is what you already have...they will work fine, and produce some decent accuracy in the 1 to 2 hundred yard ranges. They may do Ok further out, but I never tried them that far.

I switched to the BR-2's just before the start of the "Great Primer Famine of 2009" but I can't prove that they do any better than CCI 250's.

CM

[Mike Venturino]

Crabo: since your friend intends shooting the BPCR silhouette game I'd advise him to check out the equipment tabulations that the NRA collects every year at the nationals. It has some fascinating information, especially when it gives details of what the top 10 placing shooters were using. It likely is available at the NRA's website.

Here are a few pertinent details from 2009. All 10 top shooters were firing .45 caliber rifles. Four were .45-90s (#2, #5, #6 & #8) and the other six were .45-70s. Four used Shiloh '74s (#1, 3, 4 & 6 one used a C. Sharps '74 (#7), two used Meacham Hi Walls (#2 & #10), one used a Hepburn (#5) one used an original Winchester Hi Wall (#9) and one used a C. Shrarps Hi Wall (#8).

Five used Steve Brooks moulds, (#1, #4, #5, #6 & #7) four used Paul Jones moulds (#3, #8, #9, & #10) and one used a Buffalo Arms mould (#2). Those .45 caliber bullets ranged from 517 grains (#1) to 560 grains (#5 & #7).

Nine of the top 10 used Swiss powder. They were numbers one through nine. Number 10 only listed "other powder brand."

Four of the top 10 list Federal as their primers (#1, #2, #4, #6) two list CCI (#3 & #7), one lists Federal & CCI (#9) one lists Winchester (#5) and two list Remington (#8 & #10) Unfortuneately the NRA doesn't ask the competitors to specify the exact type of primer. I only know that the #1 and #4 shooters were using Federal 210s because they are a husband/wife team and I asked them and I know that #7 was using CCI-BR2s because that was me.

As for lubricant, #1 & #4 used DGL, #2, #3, #5, #6, #7, and #10 all used SPG, and #8 & #9 used home made lubes.

That's pretty much the gist of it for 2009. I better get back to work now and I hope this helps.
MLV

[KCSO]

Crabo,

First GET MIKES BOOK!!!! "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" You will have everything you need to get started.

[RMulhern]

Shoot the damn thing and forget all the other BS!!

[crabo]

I appreciate all of the good replies. This is not my friend's first bpcr gun. He is looking to up his game and start shooting competively.

Mike, the statistics are one of the things I was looking for. That helps point us in the direction we were looking.

The discussion on primers is good also.

RMulhern, that's what we intend to do. DUH! Asking people who have done it for a while, cuts down on the learning curve.

I think Mike's book is in order.

Thanks guys,