.218 BEE or .219 Zipper conversion

[corvette8n]

I have a marlin 336 in .30-.30 that has excessive headspace (closes on a field gauge)
So I am thinking of having it rebarreled to 218 Bee or 219 Zipper which brass is easier to get? Never having brought anything to a smith what is the going price for rebarrel? I just want something a little different to plink with and maybe shoot squirrel or coyote.

[skeet1]

.218 Bee is a good caretridge but IMO is too short for a model 94. The 219 zipper would work OK.

I don't think I would change the barrel but would leave it .30-30. Why not just fire form your cases and neck size?

Skeet1

[Rocky Raab]

The Zipper is a nice round. Think of it as a rimmed 223 in performance, and you'd be about right. The one I had was finicky, and I never did get either the velocity or the accuracy I thought it should give. I sold that Contender barrel last year.

The main problem is the expense of the form dies to make Zipper cases from either .25-35 (which aren't all that easy to find to begin with) or .30-30. With the re-barrel, the cost of the project to get get the first round of loaded ammo might run you $500.

If it were me, I'd make it a 7-30 Waters.

[beagle]

On a 336, you'll have bolt face problems and action problems with the Bee. If you found a M1894 that would work. The 336 is set up for .30/30 sized/length cases and would be really hard to set up a Bee in.

The 336 would work all right for the Zipper and would make a good conversion.

The Bee cases are easier to get as they're still being made. The Zipper cases are a do it yourself project out of .30/30s. If you have Zipper dies, .25/35 dies and a case trimmer and a neck turner it can be done but they're pretty work intensive. I made a 100 one winter for a friend in VT and they turned out all right. Winchester cases are the best for making them.

So, that's the two options./beagle

[StarMetal]

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/zipper.htm

Read that.

I don't see making cases from ready available 30-30 cases, but then again I don't see major reworking or forming as a hard thing. Don't let that scare you off.

Depends on who does the rebarreling and what quality barrel you buy. I see $500 as a bit high in my book. I built a 6.5 Grend AR15 for that amount and also few years ago built a 260 Rem on an Arisaka Jap 38 action ...that is new barrel, new walnut stock, scope and mounts, new bolt handle, and bluing for only 2/3 of that price.

If you want something, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, don't let people talk you out of it. Life is short.

I see the 219 Zipper (and another one the 219 Donaldson Wasp) as an interesting project, neat rifle, and one that duplicates the 223 with much less pressure.



Joe

[beagle]

Joe......just stating his options.

I'd like to have one of both calibers.

Nothing mysterious about making .219 cases. It's just a bunch of repetitive tasks to get there./beagle

[Ranch Dog]

I have both cartridges and would take the 219 Zipper over the Bee any day. Like others have said, working with the 336 you will be working the Zipper. I use Lee dies and just buy my brass from this guy on GunBroker.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=146640157

I would also not consider buying any old factory ammo. I have bought a bunch from different sources and almost all of it has been bad. A lot of funny stuff happening at trigger pull and the most of the brass splits. I had stuff that looks brand new but had trouble with it all. Even the brass is unusable for reloading as it splits during resizing. I through what I had left in my lake this weekend!

My Marlin is rifle with the heavy barrel and it is an awesome coyote killer.

[semtav]

The main problem is the expense of the form dies to make Zipper cases from either .25-35 (which aren't all that easy to find to begin with) or .30-30.



the 25-35 cases will form in one shot just using the 219 full length sizing dies.
New 25-35 cases aren't very hard to come by.don't think I'd bother sizing the 30-30 cses down. Nice shell. I'd save the 218 bee for a different gun. I've got both but would definitely take the 219 zipper over the 218Bee in the model 94.

[Bret4207]

Zipper, or perhaps even the Improved Zipper, but the original will feed better. I hope to build one someday for a walking coyote gun.

[Rocky Raab]

Well, if you find .25-35 cases try this trick: Run them through your SEATER die first. Seater dies have to be a bit larger inside to accommodate a seated bullet, and so they can serve as a sort of form die. Back it off just a hair so the crimp shoulder doesn't crumple the new shoulder.

My $500 estimate was based on the barrel work, plus regular dies plus form dies (which were near $200 the last time I checked).

[Bullshop]

Why not just go with the 25/35? Brass is easier and its easier to get good results casting the quarter bore boolits.

[StarMetal]

Well, if you find .25-35 cases try this trick: Run them through your SEATER die first. Seater dies have to be a bit larger inside to accommodate a seated bullet, and so they can serve as a sort of form die. Back it off just a hair so the crimp shoulder doesn't crumple the new shoulder.

My $500 estimate was based on the barrel work, plus regular dies plus form dies (which were near $200 the last time I checked).

According to Grafs, and at retail prices..not dealer, full length dies + form dies only run $100. In my opinion you don't need form dies if you know what you are doing.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Zipper, or perhaps even the Improved Zipper, but the original will feed better. I hope to build one someday for a walking coyote gun.


Would make for a nice rifle and caliber for you Bret. Somehow I see you as a guy that likes the older guns and calibers.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Why not just go with the 25/35? Brass is easier and its easier to get good results casting the quarter bore boolits.

Bullshop,

Another excellent idea.

Joe

[Bret4207]

Would make for a nice rifle and caliber for you Bret. Somehow I see you as a guy that likes the older guns and calibers.

Joe

Yup, simple pleasures for simple people.:drinks:

[beagle]

Get a 1-10 twist and that makes a great conversion. I did one on a 336 and I love it./beagle
Why not just go with the 25/35? Brass is easier and its easier to get good results casting the quarter bore boolits.