What happens when seating boolits over-sized?

[Bigoledude]

My two .44s are gonna take boolits over-sized about .002-.003. My 45-70 is gonna use boolits over-sized about .002. Will these seat into the case OK?

What's the solution if seating proves difficult?

[Hickory]

If you bell the mouth of the case to where it will accept
the base of the bullet you will have no problems.

[Bret4207]

In rare cases you'll need and oversize expander. An M die with the proper spud does the same thing. Make sure your seater isn't "squishing" the boolit smaller on loading.

[JSnover]

My two .44s are gonna take boolits over-sized about .002-.003. My 45-70 is gonna use boolits over-sized about .002. Will these seat into the case OK?

What's the solution if seating proves difficult?

I've been loading a Mountain Molds 500 grain boolit with bands measuring .463 with no problems. I do not have an M die yet but plan to get one soon so the case doesn't size it back down as it seats.

[Dale53]

If you are shooting heavy loads with slow burning powders (as an example, the .44 Magnum with H110) you NEED substantial bullet pull to get proper powder burning. A heavy crimp will NOT substitute for sufficient bullet pull.

The bullets need to be relatively hard (Lyman #2 hardness is sufficient) and the expander stem needs to be about .005" smaller than the bullet. If the bullet is relatively hard, it will not deform.

On the other hand, if you are using soft bullets (WW's, as an example) and shooting target loads, then the expander stem needs to be closer to bullet size (.001" or .002" smaller than the bullet) to avoid damaging the bullet.

With my BPCR bullets (30/1 lead/tin) which are quite soft, I had a custom expander made that was .001" smaller than the bullets. After the case is expanded the natural "spring back" of the brass case leaves the bullet with .002" bullet pull. This is perfect for black powder bullets.

Both the bullet hardness and the bullet pull need to be tailored to the task at hand.

FWIW
Dale53

[44man]

Dale, very good.
The only restriction I see is if the chamber is too tight to accept very large boolits. Thankfully most .44 chambers are generous enough.
tight chambers are OK but the throats and bore better be a perfect match.

[Dale53]

44man;
Thank you, kind sir.

Speaking of chamber throats in revolvers...

I and two of my friends recently purchased Ruger SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertibles. I shot mine with the .45 Colt cylinder, only, and it leaded in half of the cylinder throats and barrel. I measured the throats and, as we have come to expect, they were undersize for cast bullets. I ended up reaming all six cylinder throats for the three different revolvers. It's a shame that Ruger hasn't yet figured out what is needed regarding cylinder throats.

On the other hand, if they have to be wrong, then I am sure a lot happier that they are undersize rather than oversize. Reaming with a proper "made for the purpose" reamer is sure a lot easier than trying to have another cylinder made because the throats are WAY oversize.

At any rate, as soon as I get my gun back from the pistolsmith (having a trigger job done as well as installation of the Power Custom Pawl) in a couple of weeks, we'll run it to the range for tests. I have high expectations of this revolver.

This revolver was just built by Ruger a few weeks ago and they still have the old pawl system in place[smilie=b:. They have been building revolvers with the new pawl system for four years and they are still shipping New Model Black Hawks with the "old" pawl. I LOVE the operation of my new .44 Lipsey Special AND the 50th Anniversary .44 Magnum with the new pawl. It was quite disappointing to learn that my new Bisley still had the old pawl. Well, a Power Custom Pawl will solve that (for $40.00 + labor:groner:).

Ruger, a "Do it yourself kit" (but I sure do like them, in spite of their warts). The GOOD thing is that after the necessary "tuning" I'll have a fine revolver for me (and my sons, and grand sons after I'm gone).

Dale53

[beagle]

Another problem you may encounter is seating troubles.

I had problems with seating using .433" .44 bullets in the Mag and also using .460" bullets in the .45/70.

Both with Lyman dies.

In both cases, the crimp shoulder was too small to allow the bullet of that diameter to slip through and it tended to "seat" the bullet instead of the seating stem.

If the bullet you're using will pass through the crimping shoulder loosley, you're all right if the round will chamber easily. If not, the crimping shoulder will have to be honed out a couple thou...../beagle

[243winxb]

The seating die can cause lead shaving as the bullet is seated. No extra amount of bell will fix this. You will have to modify the die. Look for a loose ring of lead on the round just in front of the case mouth. On firing , this lead will mix with grease & burnt powder in your revolvers cylinders, sticking there. In Autos it builds up in the chamber also and can cause the action not to close fully (45acp).
What's the solution if seating proves difficult? Size the 44 mag. to .430":coffeecom

[462]

Bigoledude,

To accomodate a .433" 429421 boolit, I enlarged the seating die so that it wouldn't seat the boolit too soon, as well as size it back down to .429". The die is now used for the 429421 only, with another die taking care of a 429244.

[Frank]

Dale53 says
On the other hand, if you are using soft bullets (WW's, as an example) and shooting target loads, then the expander stem needs to be closer to bullet size (.001" or .002" smaller than the bullet) to avoid damaging the bullet.


I was doing some testing. I have some bullets that are BH 14. I sized the F/L sized the brass with normal dies and used no expander, just a bell to get it started. I pulled one a week later and it was still the same size. This was an unlubed bullet. It had so much tension the case sometimes buckled by the base, but the bullet was unaffected. It was tougher than the case. And the accuracy was spectacular.

[243winxb]

Frank said
buckled by the base This can be seen even when using the correct expander. Its more a matter of case wall thickness and the FLRSing die. Many FLRS dies just over do it as they have to work with many different brands of brass. Your alloy BHN 14 is hard compared to maybe on a BHN 8. Dale53 said
needs to be about .005" This is way to much, i have never measured an RCBS expander that much under bullet diameter. Just IMO . Sorry