1859 Sharps Percussion Rifle - Help Please!

[senormik]

Hi all,

I've got an Armi-Sport 1859/63 Sharps percussion rifle in .45 cal. This is my first black powder rifle and my first attempt at using cast bullets. After buying everything that I needed to shoot it, I finally got it out to the range this afternoon. I loaded it with a .458 cast bullet and a full chamber of loose Pyrodex RS powder. Capped it with a CCI musket cap. Aimed, pulled the trigger, the hammer and popped the percussion cap....and the rifle did not fire. I used about 20 caps without getting one shot off. Finally gave up.

I had cleaned the rifle thoroughly before shooting it, and I had popped several percussion caps before doing anything else to ensure that the flash hole was clear. Has anyone else had a similar experience? I blew through the nipple and felt air coming out the flash hole. However, I did not notice any flame coming out the barrel when I fired the caps only. There were plenty of sparks and flash at the hammer when it fell on each cap. What should I be trying? Are there better nipples that could be used to maximize the flash?

This is pretty frustrating. I appreciate any suggestions you might have.
Thanks!

[Ramsgate]

Hi all,
I loaded it with a .458 cast bullet and a full chamber of loose Pyrodex RS powder.


I can't help because I just don't know enough but how do load a full chamber of loose powder? I thought a paper cartridge was required. Best of luck and I hope informed help arrives soon.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Get some real black powder lose the Pyrodex.


KW

The Lunger

[Cactus Farmer]

[QUOTE=Kenny Wasserburger;717297]Get some real black powder lose the Pyrodex.


"Ditto" Pyro is hard to light off with a bic lighter............[smilie=b:

[jgraham1]

Use BP and a paper cartridge.

[docone31]

It is hard to wrap your head around a paper cartridge, but they work pretty well.
I agree with BP. The flame channel on the breech block is a long one for Pyrodex.
The main thing, get a good lube on the boolitt, shove it into the barrel. Then push in the cartridge, close the paper cutter, cap it, and it should do well.
The .45 is a little small. I had a Pedersolit .54 paper cartridge. I never go the hang of the one piece cartridge. Probably too simple for me to figuire out.
Not much recoil at all, good shooting piece.
It will take a while, but you will dial it in.

[Buckshot]

................Pyrodex is much harder to ignite then real BP, and is not recommended in flintlocks at all. I know the rifle in question isn't a flintlock, but it does have a rather torturous flame path. In a flintlock if you do use Pyrodex it is recommended to use a small BP priming charge under the main charge.

.............Buckshot

[NickSS]

I have been shooting percussion sharps rifles for years and there are some idiosyncrasy's to them. First of all you need to get more flame through the flash channel. One thing that works it to drill out the flash hole in the nipple. The modern nipples in the armi sport and perdersoli rifles are too small. I bore them out with a 1/16" drill bit. Second make sure your flash channel is clean. Then if you want to shoot more than half a dozen shots, pry the gas plate off the front of the breach block (my armi sport has two slight indentations on the outside edge) with a small screw driver and coat the back of the gas plate with anti seize compound that you can get at a car parts store. Also there is a sleeve in the barrel if it is loose pull it out and coat the outside with never seize. This should get you shooting. If it still does not fire try real black powder. As stated above, pyrodex is harder to set off.

[senormik]

Thanks for your replies, guys. I'm in New York state, and unfortunately no one seems to stock black powder around here. One gunshop said it was "not really legal" here, whatever that means. Sounds like my best bet is to try drilling out the nipple slightly, as NickSS recommends. I'll give it a shot!

[Buckshot]

[QUOTE=senormik;717744] One gunshop said it was "not really legal" here, whatever that means. [QUOTE]

..............It either is or isn't. It is shipped via UPS on a standard Haz Mat surcharge, same as smokless powder although smokless ships as a flammable solid. Gotta be somewhere around there that has BP?

................Buckshot

[halfslow]

One thing to try is the pyrodex pellets.
They have a black powder charge on one end.
Some people find them easier to set off.
My Pedersolli takes two in the chamber behind the bullet.

[senormik]

Well, I took the block completely apart last night and looked at it again. Used a bent paperclip to probe around while I looked in with a flashlight. Couldn't see anything amiss at first. Eventually, though, I noticed it seemed like something was moving around slightly when I'd push with the paperclip. After about 30 minutes, sure enough, I managed to dig out a little chunk of metal. I dug around for awhile longer, and out came another one. So the block was obstructed after all, even though I could blow through it. I'll try to get it to the range soon to test it out again. Maybe with a little more flame getting to the powder it'll work. I'll keep you posted.

[docone31]

I got obstructions from flakes of fired powder.
One check I do, is to observe the muzzle when I fire a cap.
Oh yeah, I am careful it is not loaded, and I fire away from me. I can observe it that way.

[chuebner]

A shooting friend has an 1859 Sharps percussion rifle and has good luck using Hodgdon 777 even though we continually keep trying to get him to come over to the dark side. I always thought it a hoot that Pyrodex pellets have to be ignited with a little dot of black powder. Jeez, if you have to go to all that trouble why not shoot the real stuff.

charlie

[1874Sharps]

Senormik,

I was out with my Pedersoli 54 caliber 1859 Sharps carbine yesterday, and is it ever fun to shoot! I generally prime the nipple on the first shot of the day, as there is oil in the nipple and spark passageway that causes misfires. I do this by either removing the nipple and pouring down some BP into the hole and then replacing the nipple, or by directly putting in a little BP into the nipple itself. That ensures a good spark that will go all the way to the charge.

The nitrated paper cartridges are not really hard to make. Simply place some thin cotton paper into a saturated potassium nitrate solution, remove and let dry. Cut the paper into squares that allow two wraps around a wooden dowel that is sized just smaller than the chamber, so that the dowel fits without much clearance. Make the length of the paper cartridge just a little longer that the bullet with the cartridge tied on will not quite go all the way into the chamber. When the action is raised it will chop off the tail of the paper cartridge and expose the powder to the spark. An alternative (for the Pedersoli guns, anyway) is using a special reusable brass case that is filled with BP and tipped with the special ring-tailed boolit designed for the rilfe. The brass case is knocked out the breech by a rod down the muzzle and then loaded again. That process works just fine for target shooting at the range and also requires about 20 grains less powder per shot compared to the paper cartridge method.

I is a good idea to have some TC Bore Butter or the like with you when you shoot an 1859/63 Sharps to keep the action moving smoothly. After a few shots the lever starts getting stiff due to fouling building up of theface of the block. A few strategic dabs of Bore Butter will keep it working.

If there is nowhere local that you can find real black powder, try powderinc.com. They are a good outfit out of Arkansas and they sell 5, 10 or 25 pound orders of BP. It is cheapest (price per pound) to buy the 25 pound lot, as the HAZMAT fee is spread over the cost of 25 pounds instead of just 5 or 10 pounds. I bought a 25 pound order several months ago and am glad I did.

[Dutchman]

For some interesting historical research on them who used the Sharps 1863 carbine you might want to see this one issued to Sgt. Charles Nelson of the 22nd New York cavalry. He was from Rochester, NY and is still there as a permanent resident of the cemetery. This Sharps saw a lot of action. I had the privilege of handling, inspecting, learning about and photographing this Sharps.

http://www.nelson.talkingrelics.com/

http://www.nelson.talkingrelics.com/about9.html

I can tell you from the experience with this Sharps carbine that when you learn about the men who carried them into battle, or even just burning barns in the Shenandoah Valley, you gain an immense sense of history instead of just handling an old gun. Take some time to read through this most excellent research done by my buddy in Indiana.

http://images54.fotki.com/v556/photos/4/28344/7937087/1863sharpsb-vi.jpg

Dutch
great-great-grandson of Elias Garvin 16th Ohio Field Artillery 1861-1864 &
5th United States Veteran Volunteers 1864-1865. He was 17 yrs old in 1861.