45LC 4 5/8 barrel vs 5/6 whatever.

[Changeling]

In 45 LC, disregarding the sight radius of the longer barrels does anyone find accuracy differences in the 4 5/8 barrel over the longer ones in the 150 yd and under range?

[BCB]

How many yards!!??

Phewww, you are certainly a much better marksman than I am!!!

But then Elmer shot an Elk at 600 yards...

BCB

[felix]

In theory, less is always better, except when considering vibes and associated node placements which is dependent upon the average acelleration curve of the boolits. ... felix

[Dale53]

Here is the short version:
The short barrel will shoot just fine compared to longer barrels.

However, longer barrels WILL have a longer sight radius and for me I can hit noticeably better with the longer barrels.

As a result, my favorite barrel length is 5½" (obviously, a compromise, but a compromise that works for me).

Dale53

[ole 5 hole group]

Well, for what its worth I can miss at 100 yards about as well as I can miss at 50 yards. You need young eye's and a lot of practice to be able to get your timing down for consistent hits or near misses at 100 yards with the 45 Colt and iron sights. I preferred an 8" barrel past 50 yards but after a couple years of shooting 7 days a week and a couple decades of shooting a couple times a week (yardage was 90% 50 yards and 10% 25 yards rapid fire) I didn't find much difference in accuracy but at 100 yards with iron sights offhand your sights normally covered up the target, so using both eyes open (only way to shoot IMHO) you did your best with Kentucky windage & holdover and let her rip. Every now and then I could roll a coyote at 100+ yards but usually I got close enough on the first shot to scare hell out of him and the next 5 were farewell salutes, if I could get them off in time (off hand cocking) before he disappeared in the brush, tall weeds or over a hill and on occasion I got lucky on the speedster, as I think he zigged instead of zagged and ran into the bullet. The more you practice the luckier you get.

[beagle]

IMO, it's only the sight radius that makes the difference having owned M29 Smiths from the 4" to the 10 5/8" "sillywet" model.

My 4 5/8" Blackhawk shot as good as the longer barrel models but the sight radius on the longer ones made a heap of difference./beagle

[felix]

Maybe we should defer ultimate authority to 44Man and DeputyAl, our revolter guru and auto guru respectively. ... felix

[targetshootr]

It probably depends mostly on who's using it. Here's a shot that's pretty amazing with a short barrel Vaquero.

http://dustinlinebaugh.com/alaska-grizzly-hunt.htm

[KYCaster]

The more you practice the luckier you get.


Now there's the quote of the week!! I think this man knows what he's talking about.

:drinks:

Jerry

[Lloyd Smale]

like was said both are capable of equal accuracy. There are just to many other variables in two guns that are even the same and came off the assembly line one after the other that effect accuracy a heck of alot more then barrel lenght. Some people shoot long barreled guns better and some shoot short barreled guns better. Personaly i like them short. Ive seen no differnce out past 500 yards between any barrel lenght. I tend to shoot a short barreled gun better off hand myself but thats just me. A couple advantages with a shorter barrel and both have to due with the ammount of time the bullet is in the barrel while the barrel is rising in recoil is that i see less of a point of impact change with differnt weight bullets in short barrels and some will argue this but when shooting guns like my 500 linebaughs it seems that recoil is or at least muzzle flip is a bit less with a short barrel. Only accuarcy issue you may run into with a short barrel and ive yet to actually see it is because you are going to be getting slightly slower velocitys it may be a bit tougher to stablilze heavier bullets. But i think that would only come into effect if you were shooting 45 bullets heavier then 350 grain and the 45 colt really doesnt have the case capasity to make good use out of bullets that heavy anyway.

[Bucks Owin]

I've done a fair amount of "long range" (100+ yds) open sight shooting and IMO, sight radius/barrel length is the single most important thing to have. My avatar sixgun is capable of staying on an 8.5"x11.5" target at 150 yds with handloads. No big deal accuracy wise right? Good scoped handguns can get MOA groups at that range. I'm here to tell you, that target looks about the size of a mosquito turd over an open front sight! Any miniscule misalignment or break in your concentration of keeping that front sight in razor focus, trigger control, even breathing and heart rate is going to land you off the paper. By a foot! That's how hard it is to shoot "long range" with a 10" barrel. A 4 7/8" or 5.5" tube? I doubt many could do it even on a best day. Maybe some can. 300 yds? FIVE HUNDRED YDS? Elmer's 600 yd trigger prowess notwithstanding, one reference he made in "Sixguns" was to long range handgunning being akin to "mortar fire". THAT'S no lie! Put a 5 gal pail out there at 300 yds and start burning powder in full snort (for "flat" trajectory) .44 mag loads and see how many times you can tag it with open sights. Get ready to be disappointed....(But have fun trying, it's addicting!) IMO, Dennis :wink:

[DanWalker]

One thing to consider with a short barreled gun is that as barrel length decreases, so does sight radius. The effects of sight alignment errors while shooting are magnified by this.
I do my best long range work with a longer barreled sixgun. The mechanical accuracy differences between barrel lengths are nil as far as I can tell. I just find longer barrels,(to a point) easier to shoot accurately at longer range.

[targetshootr]

Here's another good shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tied-t1fFsk&feature=related

[Bucks Owin]

LOL..Like Newt said about Woodrow F. Call "He ain't human like the rest of us". That kinda sums up Bob Munden! Great link targetshootr!

[Changeling]

like was said both are capable of equal accuracy. There are just to many other variables in two guns that are even the same and came off the assembly line one after the other that effect accuracy a heck of alot more then barrel lenght. Some people shoot long barreled guns better and some shoot short barreled guns better. Personaly i like them short. Ive seen no differnce out past 500 yards between any barrel lenght. I tend to shoot a short barreled gun better off hand myself but thats just me. A couple advantages with a shorter barrel and both have to due with the ammount of time the bullet is in the barrel while the barrel is rising in recoil is that i see less of a point of impact change with differnt weight bullets in short barrels and some will argue this but when shooting guns like my 500 linebaughs it seems that recoil is or at least muzzle flip is a bit less with a short barrel. Only accuarcy issue you may run into with a short barrel and ive yet to actually see it is because you are going to be getting slightly slower velocitys it may be a bit tougher to stablilze heavier bullets. But i think that would only come into effect if you were shooting 45 bullets heavier then 350 grain and the 45 colt really doesnt have the case capasity to make good use out of bullets that heavy anyway.

Lloyd this is what I was looking for. You never said what you considered short, LOL. Actually I would like to know what length you personally use on your open sighted revolvers.

I never considered the barrel time, you brought up a very good point, faster the slugs out, less time time for recoil to interfere, I like that thought. I shoot my 7 1/2 " SBH well but I hate the barrel at that length. Some people seem to think it is just fine and they like it. That is fine by me if that is what you like, I just don't.

As for the lower velocities I really don't have any idea what would be lost in a 4/58 barrel vs a 6 inch barrel (example) in 45 colt but I wouldn't think it would be more than 80 feet per second at most. That is just an off the wall guess I really don't know. But since my intention is to shoot reasonable velocities and not try to ring every fps out of the revolvers I would have considerable room to up the velocity if necessary.
350 grain bullets, not unless I win a trip to the dark continent, LOL. I've seen first hand what a .44mag 240 grain WFN cast can do to a deer at a little over 100 yards and was amazed at that!

This will probably make you and the other guys laugh but I have used a Ruger .22 Bearcat to shoot ground hogs out of my garden for years and as it is now I rarely miss, I also use it for squirrels when I take a walk in the woods behind my house and do well.
Now I know It can't be considered on the same level as a 45 LC by any stretch of the imagination but it does what I want at ranges out to 75 feet (squirrels a little closer) and does it well. It's also one of the reasons I have gotten so interested in going to handguns for my larger game hunting.

Thanks very much for the replies guys.

[44man]

One thing to consider with a short barreled gun is that as barrel length decreases, so does sight radius. The effects of sight alignment errors while shooting are magnified by this.
I do my best long range work with a longer barreled sixgun. The mechanical accuracy differences between barrel lengths are nil as far as I can tell. I just find longer barrels,(to a point) easier to shoot accurately at longer range.
This is the answer. I am trying to remember but I think my 10" barrels would be 1" per click at 50 meters. A short barrel might be 2" or more per click. That is a LOT at long range. .001" light gap change with a short barrel is a long miss.
Put a scope on each length and accuracy will be equal until a slow powder no longer burns in the barrel, then you can have load issues.
I do not like less then 7-1/2". Mostly because I love 296.

[targetshootr]

For me the front sight on long barrel handguns tends to jump around more than on shorter barrels, which is also why I can't shoot a rifle. I think it's better to have one or more in each length, if you can, to find out which one you prefer for balance, packability, steadiness, etc. And the trigger makes a world of difference too. A bad one will cause a loss of accuracy that you might blame on something else like barrel length. I bet the trigger on Bob Munden's belly gun is perfect. He did a couple of SAAs for me when I was into them and they were incredible. Then he came to town and after the show he laid out several dozen guns for everyone to fondle. What a day that was. Even got to shake his hand and hold the gold plated SAA he used on tv.

[S.R.Custom]

Remember, too, that a long barreld gun is heavier, and as such, can be held steadier; a heavier gun is less susceptible to wind, flinches, and variations in grip from shot to shot. This assumes, of course, that you have sufficient hand strength to hold the heavier gun still to begin with.

[44man]

Remember, too, that a long barreld gun is heavier, and as such, can be held steadier; a heavier gun is less susceptible to wind, flinches, and variations in grip from shot to shot. This assumes, of course, that you have sufficient hand strength to hold the heavier gun still to begin with.
I have a Ruger SS slab side Mark II and put my Swift scope on it for squirrels since my .475 blew up the first Swift. I think I have Palsy when trying to hit anything off hand. I had no trouble head shooting squirrels to 50 yards with my long barrel silhouette Mark II and open sights.
When I first got my 10" SBH it was hard to shoot off hand, the barrel would droop down as I aimed. Took some time to control the thing. [smilie=l:
A short barrel needs super eyesight and a very steady hold for long range if it has open sights. Putting a scope on a short one will drive you nuts with the wiggle and you will miss more.
As I get older, some mornings I can't hold my coffee cup steady and a spoon full of cereal might miss my mouth--no need to try shooting. Now today, I am steady as a rock but it is raining so I can't take advantage of it.
Don't get old fellas! :bigsmyl2:

[Changeling]

Well there has been a lot of good replies on the subject, some I was aware of and some not. All are appreciated because I really believe you guys are honest and have a lot of experience.

However, I know my capabilities and have stated that I simply don't like long barrels like from over 6 inches and up. I have absolutely no problem with anyone using long barrels and understand relationship between sight radius relative to barrel length. I was just wondering if there was a mechanical reason the longer barrels would be more accurate for some reason other than sight radius.

Lloyd brought up the point of velocity loss witch could be a positive fall back in accuracy if you were unaware of the difference in velocity from on barrel length to another. This could be settled by a chronograph, but unfortunately I don't have one yet.
Just keep in mind that my shots on large game with open sights will always be 100 yards give or take, never 300, that is for play and experimenting not to mention FUN.

Eventually I will have both barrel lengths in 45 LC (maybe more) but I have to start some where and right now that is finding the revolver I want and a transfer agent that is not taking me to the cleaners. One of the guys here found a place for me to get the revolver at a decent price. I contacted my local dealer to order and he wanted more than Ruger suggests (MSR). I just can't bring myself to deal with someone like that.
However this is my problem and I will find it eventually.


Thanks to all for there input .

[Lloyd Smale]

let me argue a few points given here. As to weight my 4 inch 500 weights more the a single six of any barrel lenght. To me a short barreled gun like one of my 4 inch 500s balances much better in the hand then a long barreled gun. That alone reduces the tremmors you get from the muscles needed to support that barrel weight. This will come into play even more when you need to take your time on a shot like when shooting long range. Then when you do shake that longer barrel is farther out from the axis of the shake so the shake will be amplified as the barrel gets longer. I do agree with the sight radius thing. But it does nothing for shakes as a matter of fact like i said it amplifies it. What id does do is it makes the front sight eaiser to focus on for old eyes like im getting. I shoot alot of long distance and won my class at a linebaugh shoot one year using a 4 inch gun and my best freind won another two classes using 4 inch guns. that was shooting at a 3/4 sized buffalo cow at 800 yards so long range precision work can sure be done with a short barrel. As a matter of fact i usually do much better with a gun under 5.5 inch then i do with one longer. As to the flat trajectory, ive argued this forever with the guys that shoot 454s (which i do too) and 460s ect. The art of hitting at long range has very little to do with trajectory in a handgun. NONE of them shoot flat enough to shoot past 200 yards without hold over. Knowing your gun and load and using a bullet that flys well is what makes for a good long range shooter. It matters very little to me that i have to hold a little more sight because my load is going 1200 fps vs 1600fps. the ammount of sight differnce is pretty minimal. Velocity is one of the smallest variables imo in making up a long range sixgun and load. Scopes arent the ticket for real long range loads. I shot kelly brosts 41gnr which is a fairly flat shooting gun. It was a reader custom 10 inch gun with a leupold scope. It was sighted in 2 inches high at a 100 yards and to hold over on the 800 yard buff you were right out of the scope. But again as much as i detest optics on sixguns id have to admitt if my life was on the line and i had to hit something at 2 or 300 yards and had the choise of a scope or not id probably opt for the scope. But it sure wouldnt take away the need to know your loads trajectory. But again these tired eyes would probably appreciate the optical advantage. So there it is. In a nut shell i dont think theres enough advantage between barrrel lenghts either way to even make a good argument. they both have small advantages but neither with make the differnce in a good shooter or a pour one. They only thing that will do that is experience and practice period. What to buy? IMO buy what you like the looks of. Thats probalby the biggest differnce youll find in barrel lenghts. Love to stay and argue more but im heading out the door to camp for deer season. On my hip is a 3 inch 44 mag redhawk with 290s at about 11oo fps. Sure hope those deer arent past 20 yards or ill be in trouble ;)

[ole 5 hole group]

Lloyd said it well, and I’ll just add that if you hunt big game and because of the terrain, you’ll usually be taking shots at 100 yards or more with a 45 Colt – you’re looking for trouble more often than not if you don’t have excellent young eyes, have several thousand rounds fired at “long range” using various shooting styles/positions and insist on using factory sights. If your 1st shot isn’t on the money – I dare say your “slightly rushed” follow up shots probably will not be any better and odds are they may be worse. If you practice a lot and I mean a lot, at long range shooting styles and really know your revolver & load you’ll be successful the vast majority of the time. If you don’t practice by the ton of lead measure, then go with optics – the dot or scope will increase your 1st shot on the money mark chances. If you’re well practiced with your revolver, I don’t see the short barrel as a disadvantage. I like my 500SW in the 5” model, the rest of the handcannons are in the 6” barrel length except for a “custom” Linebaugh 500 Mad Max. Tracking a shot up elk or moose is no fun at all and even less enjoyable when you have to pack it out a couple more miles than planned on. If it becomes a 2 day job, you may find that a Griz has come calling and he is very resourceful at getting to the dinner table and will leave a “smell” on “your” meat. Here are a couple targets from yesterday – a 500 Linebaugh Maximum iron sights, 440 grain HC at pain velocity from an 8” barrel. Used a rolled up jacket as a rest from a 3 legged unstable table – the fair target is 30 yards the other is 70 yards. I go from 1.2” to 5.5” in just 40 yards with two bad shots outside of the 5.4" ring - the smaller ring has a 4" diameter. It only gets worse from there on out and I’ve got ole, poor eyes but tons of lead down range. If I were to go after an elk tomorrow at 150 yards – I would put optics on. Forty years ago it was different – iron sights on a 44 Magnum with a give a **** attitude because I didn’t know any better.

[44man]

Lloyd, no argument because everyone is different and not even everyone likes the same grip on a gun. A gun with nice balance is always a pleasure to shoot but once the sight alignment gets critical at long range, the longer gun is better.
My problem is that after shooting heavier and longer guns so long, a light gun will not stop bouncing around. :coffee: It is like trying to get a cup of coffee to my mouth early in the morning, sneak up on the cup with lips to counter the quiver! :mrgreen:
Now if the cup was heavy enough to blot out the shakes it would be easier. You should see my spoon eating a bowl full of cereal! :drinks:

[9.3X62AL]

"Auto Guru?" THERE is a scary thought! Thanks all the same, Felix!

Barrel length in and of itself has little to do with intrinsic accuracy, assuming good form and finish. Shorter sight radii can potentially exaggerate any sighting error induced by the driver, so shorter barrel lengths have an indirect effect on accuracy. My own safe contains only a few 2"-barrelled rollers, and 2 with 7.5" tubes. There are A LOT of 5" and 6" barrels, and a number of 4" barrels as well. My most-carried revolver--most carried sidearm, actually--is a S&W M-686 x 4". As I've posted many times here and elsewhere, a good-quality 4"-barrelled double action 357 Magnum revolver does more things well than any other single sidearm platform.

[ole 5 hole group]

I hate to hear that 44Man, as I'm only 5 years behind you and if that's what I got to look forward to, I better hurry up and spend what little money I have hunting and shooting before my eyes and hand get any worse than they are now.[smilie=l:

I don't know 9.3X62AL - a model 25 in 45Colt with a 4" barrel will sure give it run for its money.

[Bucks Owin]

let me argue a few points given here. As to weight my 4 inch 500 weights more the a single six of any barrel lenght. Single Six? Who hunts with a Single Six? To me a short barreled gun like one of my 4 inch 500s balances much better in the hand then a long barreled gun. Handy if you get in a barroom shootout with a deer. Bet the muzzle blast would deafen a deer to death! That alone reduces the tremmors you get from the muscles needed to support that barrel weight. We're talking a few ounces of barrel, not a couple of pounds. Tone your forearms! Your wrist sounds plenty strong already! This will come into play even more when you need to take your time on a shot like when shooting long range. "Take your time" to sit down and put the hogleg between your knees. LONG RANGE remember? Then when you do shake that longer barrel is farther out from the axis of the shake so the shake will be amplified as the barrel gets longer. I do agree with the sight radius thing. You lost me here. Long radius is good for aim but the "shake" nullifies that? But it does nothing for shakes as a matter of fact like i said it amplifies it RE: Again, take a rest on something.. What id does do is it makes the front sight eaiser to focus on for old eyes like im getting. At arms length, I can tell no difference. One does not choose a barrel length instead of corrective lenses... I shoot alot of long distance and won my class at a linebaugh shoot one year using a 4 inch gun and my best freind won another two classes using 4 inch guns. that was shooting at a 3/4 sized buffalo cow at 800 yards so long range precision work can sure be done with a short barrel. Hmmm almost a half mile....offhand? As a matter of fact i usually do much better with a gun under 5.5 inch then i do with one longer. As to the flat trajectory, ive argued this forever with the guys that shoot 454s (which i do too) and 460s ect. Guess what? With a 4" .454 you're down to "Ruger only" .45 Colt 7.5" velocity for all intents and purposes..The art of hitting at long range has very little to do with trajectory in a handgun. NONE of them shoot flat enough to shoot past 200 yards without hold over. True enough, I need about 1/3 front sight at 150 yds. 800 yds would be "mortar fire". Maybe 1/3 of the barrel!?!Knowing your gun and load and using a bullet that flys well is what makes for a good long range shooter. It matters very little to me that i have to hold a little more sight because my load is going 1200 fps vs 1600fps. the ammount of sight differnce is pretty minimal. It would be quite noticeable at 200 yds, at 800 yds it's many FEET..Velocity is one of the smallest variables imo in making up a long range sixgun and load. Fire an 800 fps cowboy load and compare the drop with a 1400 fps bullet at "long range"Scopes arent the ticket for real long range loads. Nonsense. The better you can see, the better you can hit! I shot kelly brosts 41gnr which is a fairly flat shooting gun. It was a reader custom 10 inch gun with a leupold scope. It was sighted in 2 inches high at a 100 yards and to hold over on the 800 yard buff you were right out of the scope. Amen! So where did you hold? But again as much as i detest optics on sixguns id have to admitt if my life was on the line and i had to hit something at 2 or 300 yards and had the choise of a scope or not id probably opt for the scope. Probably? I KNOW I would!But it sure wouldnt take away the need to know your loads trajectory. But again these tired eyes would probably appreciate the optical advantage. Yep, hard to judge a foot or two with the naked eye at hundreds of yards..So there it is. In a nut shell i dont think theres enough advantage between barrrel lenghts either way to even make a good argument. they both have small advantages but neither with make the differnce in a good shooter or a pour one. They only thing that will do that is experience and practice period. Finally we agree! What to buy? IMO buy what you like the looks of. THERE'S a good criterion in a hunting sixgunThats probalby the biggest differnce youll find in barrel lenghts. Love to stay and argue more but im heading out the door to camp for deer season. On my hip is a 3 inch 44 mag redhawk with 290s at about 11oo fps. Sure hope those deer arent past 20 yards or ill be in trouble ;) Well, as Dirty Harry says "A man's got to know his limitations...:drinks:As for me, you couldn't run fast enough to give me a 3" .44 mag! Talk about muzzle flip, blast and loss of velocity! I'll take 6+" please. I think our main point of contention is "offhand" shooting. Nobody has any business shooting at a game animal at long range offhand. Anyone who does should have whatever barrel length he's using, bent over his head! I'd say this whole business can be put in this nutshell: If you can keep ALL your shots in a 16" circle, no matter what range, sights or shooting position, you'll likely hit a deer's ribcage. Even that would be "iffy" on a small deer....IMO, Dennis Try this .45 Colt. It's "belly gun" barrel should suit fine at long range! hee hee hee... :mrgreen::http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/BucksOwin/moreb-gun.jpg

[44man]

Try this .45 Colt. It's "belly gun" barrel should suit fine at long range! hee hee hee... :mrgreen::http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/BucksOwin/moreb-gun.jpg
It sure would as long as you have perfect alignment. I see no reason it will not shoot 400 yards if YOU and your eyes are PERFECT. The loose nut behind the grip is the problem. I lost the screw part long ago! :mrgreen:

[ole 5 hole group]

I'll let Lloyd speak for himself but I took the term single six in this thread to mean a single action 6 shot revolver and I doubt anyone here would be shooting off-hand at a big game animal much over 80 yards or so and even then a person would use a rest if there was one available. Now jumping off a 4-wheeler or bailing out of a car coming to an abrupt halt after spotting a running coyote or two is a different story.

[Bucks Owin]

It sure would as long as you have perfect alignment. I see no reason it will not shoot 400 yards if YOU and your eyes are PERFECT. The loose nut behind the grip is the problem. I lost the screw part long ago! :mrgreen: Well, my screw is only "loose'....I'll admit to being a nut....("Gun nut") [smilie=p:

[Bucks Owin]

I'll let Lloyd speak for himself but I took the term single six in this thread to mean a single action 6 shot revolver and I doubt anyone here would be shooting off-hand at a big game animal much over 80 yards or so and even then a person would use a rest if there was one available. Now jumping off a 4-wheeler or bailing out of a car coming to an abrupt halt after spotting a running coyote or two is a different story. Amen brother, I'll shoot a yodel dog in the butt if I can hit it! As to the Single Six, I took that to mean my avatar sixgun. "My bad" as the kids say......(It's a Ruger 10" Flattop .44 BTW) :drinks: Dennis

[44man]

Amen brother, I'll shoot a yodel dog in the butt if I can hit it! As to the Single Six, I took that to mean my avatar sixgun. "My bad" as the kids say......(It's a Ruger 10" Flattop .44 BTW) :drinks: Dennis
That was one SWEEEEET gun. The biggest mistake I ever made was to sell my flat top and my first Mark I and my Bearcat and, and ,and, oh heck, need I go on?
Never had enough money to buy a new gun without selling others.
Ruger is famous for creating collector guns. As soon as one gets popular, they change it or drop it.

[9.3X62AL]

[QUOTE=I don't know 9.3X62AL - a model 25 in 45Colt with a 4" barrel will sure give it run for its money.[/QUOTE]

Sure would, sir. We'd have to really do some hot stove league hair-splitting to decide THAT question.