M1 Carbine to 45 Win Mag mod

[Charlie Sometimes]

Used to be a guy up in th LP of MI doing mods to M1 carbines and turning them into semi-auto 45 Win Mag rifles. Clips took very little modification and could be still used for 30 carbine, too.

Anybody remember or know if these are still being built?

It might be something fun to have, more useful, and a better cartridge than the 30 carbine.

[craigf]

I believe they were built by a company called McCann Industries www.mccannindustries.com/rifles/458garand/458garand.html . They were built on the M1 and not the carbine. Also, once it's coverted to .458, that's it! No going back to .30. Why would you want to!

[MtGun44]

The bolt thrust of the .45 Win Mag would likely be far higher than the bolt thrust for
the .30 carbine round. I would worry about this conversion. Force is pressure times
area, where the area is the area of the case head. I think the the .45 WM case
head diam is .473 like .45 ACP and .30-06. I believe the .30 carbine is .360 diam.
If these are correct, the area ratio is about 1.7.

The area of the .45WM is about 1.7 times that of the .30 carbine. At the same
pressures, the bolt thrust (load on the lugs) would then be 1.7+ times what it was
designed for. Maybe the pressures of the .45 WM are only 60% of the pressures
of the .30 carbine to offset the area increase. I don't know the pressures that each
are loaded to.

Sounds like they may be cutting way into the safety margins with this kind of conversion.

Ya'll be careful out there.

Bill

[yondering]

Charlie, I remember reading about those too. Seems like they did 44 Mag and 50 AE conversions as well.
I do remember hearing the weak spot was the wooden stock, they would crack at the rear of the receiver. Still it would be a fun gun to shoot.
I'd love to have one converted to 45 ACP or 45 Super.

craigf, you're thinking of something else. Charlie was right about the M1 carbines. This is 45 Win Mag (long 45 ACP), not 458 Win Mag.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Yondering-
Yes, they would replace the barrel and bolt, maybe a few other parts too.
It's probably been 20 years since I saw it.
I tried googling it, but don't get anything useful.
Can't quite remember the name of the company, but they were in Michigan's LP.
The 45 Win Mag fit the clips perfectly (single stack), so very little needed to be done to them- unlike a shorter round wouold require.
The mods required the use of a military action, Universals were too weak, I think.
Sometimes you can find abused rifles that would be excellent candidates for an upgrade like this.
Synthetic stocks would probably cure the cracked stock issue.

[hicard]

The company was "LeMag" and I have one. Love it. I do load to pressures just enough to work the action and I get a lot of fun out of it. The company also converted carbines to 10MM caliber. I load the exact same load in my 44 Magnums.

[yondering]

Yeah, that was it. What caliber do you have?
The 10mm would be sweet. Given the length of the gun's original round, I wonder if a 10mm Magnum would work?

[hicard]

I have the 45 Win Mag. A 15 round mag holds 6 and a 30 round mag holds 10.

[BarryinIN]

If you can't find his company to contact them, try a search for the name Tim LeGendre. He is the gunsmith/head of LeMag. I only know the name from reading Jeff Cooper's commentaries where he talks about the conversion to 45 Win Mag and 10mm Mag.

I have heard LeGendre actually came up with the .450 Bushmaster (he called it something else) and that Bushmaster bought or licensed the design from him.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Yes!
THANK YOU!
THAT was the company!
I couldn't remember.
I used to have literature around here somewhere, but couldn't find that either.

So, I guess he still does the conversions?
Wonder how much?

That would be so great!
I've got a nice military one that I wouldn't think of touching, but have seen a couple lately that could be candidates.

[BarryinIN]

I will PM you with the contact info I found.

I looked around online after posting the name, and found a lot of references to the conversion, but none saying anything about having one done recently.
I can understand if he did quit doing it, since M1 Carbines had gotten pretty expensive for a conversion base. And with anything connected to WWII, the prices keep going higher. So I wouldn't be surprised if he ran out of people willing to send carbines in for the conversion.

But with the CMP selling a bunch now, that could change...assuming that theory is even close to begin with.

Or maybe the 450 Bushmaster deal he made caused him to stay with the AR15 route, since that's where the money is now.

[Charlie Sometimes]

The company was "LeMag" and I have one. Love it. I do load to pressures just enough to work the action and I get a lot of fun out of it.

It would be hard to talk you out of it then, I guess.

What did the conversion cost you and when did you have it done?

[DanM]

There was another gunsmith that was doing a successful M1 carbine conversion to .357 AutoMag. Wish I had the details, but it was 20 years ago that I looked into it.

[KCSO]

You need to talk to Doc Carlson of the Upper Missouri Trading Company. He started the Carbine conversion craze in the 60's with his 45acp conversion and also helped with the 22 Johnson's. He had articles in the NRA magazine and several other and may still have copies.

[hicard]

Charlie Sometimes, I am still playing with it. I purchased it at a gunshow last year for about $950.00. Came with 2 15 round and 1 30 round magazine and a box of ammo. I understand the conversion cost somewhere around 450-500 dollars when it was available but I could be way off on that.

[Charlie Sometimes]

That sounds about right with what I remember reading way back when.

I'd like to see some pictures of it- if you can get some good ones taken.

Can you identify what changes they made just by looking at it?
I wonder if I would recognize one if I saw one at a gun show- I have never seen one yet.
I doubt if there were very many made, too.

[Jack Stanley]

Charlie , My gray matter is fuzzy on this but I think the company was located in Fenton back then . I seem to remember a guy near Adrian had one that was done into a Nine m/m Winchester Magnum I do remember reading about the Forty-five mag as well .

Jack

[Charlie Sometimes]

Yea, Fenton was what I remembered.
But BarryinIN sent me an address he found- says they're in Holly, MI on Grange Hall Rd.

I'm going to send a letter out to that address tomorrow.
We'll see what comes back- if anything.

[Mk42gunner]

Charlie, There is an article titled M1 Conversions by R.C. Schuetz in Wolfes Gunsmithing Tips & Practices that tells of converting Carbines to .357 and .41 Magnum by reboring the original barrel.

This article also covers sporterizing the carbine to make it resemble a Winchester Model 100.

Hope this Helps,

Robert

[TCLouis]

I had NEVER considered it before I started reading this thread , but I wonder if the 45 ACP was ever a consideration during the development of the Carbine. Just think of the hassles of supplying yet another caliber to the "lines".

Bet the 45 ACP out of a carbine is more effective than the 30 carbine was/is. One would give up distance but simplify the supply chain and close range (whatever close may be).

Didn't Buckshot build a 45 acp on a Mauser, what say ye who own a 45 ACP long gun.

I'll start a new thread to avoid hijacking this one!

[Charlie Sometimes]

I sent a letter out the other day to see if I get a response.
I will post any replies- if I get any.

[hicard]

The only modifications I see are the barrel and the bolt face was opened up. The magazines are beefed up on the catch release area and the lips are turned up in a triangular shape at the very end. I will try to work on photos but the glaring difference I noticed immediately was the big hole at the end of the barrel. The metal almost looks paper thin and I really hesitated to fire the first shots out of it. I am about to load 19 grs of 2400 using a Mihec 200 gr hp bullet. I have shot 20 grs with no problem and 18 grs fail to function the action 100% of the time so that is where I am at.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I thought that they were replacing the bolts and barrels with beefed up versions.
I do remember that they said the clips could still be used with 30 M1 ammo in unmodified carbines.
I wish I had kept the brochure I had years ago now. :groner:

I don't know why this little conversion has struck such a chord with me all these years.

Maybe pictures will cure what ails me!

When I give up (again) on this, I'll see one at a gun show (probably cheap) and not have the money- the way my luck runs! :lol:

Heck, I don't have the money now! :veryconfu

Too many irons in the fire.

[Charlie Sometimes]

No reply as yet. :sad:

Do you think I will turn blue if I hold my breath? :lol:

[Mk42gunner]

No reply as yet. :sad:

Do you think I will turn blue if I hold my breath? :lol:

Nah, you'll pass out before that happens; at least that'swhat my aunt told my cousin.

Robert

[psj12]

I'd be real interested in a 10 MM conversion.

[TNsailorman]

I use to read the stories of these conversions in the magazines and think that maybe one day I would try one in either 10mm or .41 magnum. I still think it would make and ideal rifle for home defense if the kinks could be worked out.

[Tomhorn]

Found this on the net, have no idea how old this information is.


There is a custom conversion of the M1 Carbine that was (is?) available to turn the M1 from a .30Carbine to 10mm. I was considering converting a M1 Carbine but the people at LeMAG did not have, at the time, a source for 10mm barrels. The conversion would also allow the use of 1911 COLT 10mm magazines. The conversion was also available for the 10mm Magnum, .45ACP, .45WIN MAG, and various other cartridges. This is LeMAG's last known phone number: (810) 634-1312. I do not know if LeMAG still offers this conversion.

[zuke]

I have one also, came with 6 mag's and a real nice sporter stock that was cracked.
I picked up a Choate folder and no problem's at all.
Look's simple enough to do, once your set up for it.

[Nora]

This type of conversion could also give purpose to the supposed future imports coming from Korea. Assuming that they aren't going to try to get $1k a piece and the bolts, and receivers wont be as worn out as I'm guessing the barrels will be. I think this would be a real fun one to shoot. Wouldn't mind having one in 45 Win Mag in my locker. Even though heaven forbid that would mean tooling up for a completely new round to cast and load for.

Nora

[Charlie Sometimes]

Well, I still haven't heard anything from the letter I mailed off.
No "Return to sender" either.

I guess I'll give up- AGAIN!

I liked Nora's thoughts on new imports and the chances of someone picking up on that.
I guess the "Black Rifle" conversions and popularity has eclipsed all other platforms.

Sais la guerre?

[zuke]

Why don't you post his address and see what happen's.
If he get 15-20 letter's he might be inclined to open up a bit.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Don't know if it is a good address- but what the heck!

Address and telephone # courtesy of BarryinIN-

LeMag Firearms LLC
3309 Grange Hall Rd
Holly, MI 48442-2010

(248) 634-1312

Got it from here:
http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_sfdw2
It could be 30 years old for all I know.

Have at 'er boys!
Let me know what you find out.

[NSP64]

There is a KAHR m1 (thompson knock off) in 45 on GB for 1050.00 :mrgreen:8 Hr left

[zuke]

I just tried calling and got a message about the line's being tested....:(
When I was delivering trailer's I use to go straight south thru Michigan after crossing at the Soo.
Too bad I didn't have this address then, I woulda stopped in.

[hcpookie]

I'd love to see any and all pics of a conversion!

I am building an AK in 45 WinMag. Thompson .45 16" barrel rechambered. She fires, recoil is tame with standard 230gr rounds, but I found I need to rework a portion of the magazine feed ramp to get 100% reliable feeding. So she isn't field-ready yet.

I'm following the footsteps of another guy from NC that made the same type of AK conversion. I will see if I can dig up the chrony results of his loads. The extra barrel length did make them faster! :)




I am about to load 19 grs of 2400 using a Mihec 200 gr hp bullet. I have shot 20 grs with no problem and 18 grs fail to function the action 100% of the time so that is where I am at.


FYI, according to Hornday 7th ed, starting load is 21.5gr 2400 = 1300 FPS (from a 5" barrel) and max out is 25 gr @ 1550 FPS.

On Hodgdon's site, 200gr rounds hover around 37,000 CUP and can climb up to 38,000 CUP.

Hodgdon's loads for 30 carbine are between 36,000 to 38,000 CUP, so other than bolt thrust, the action *should* be able to handle even the more moderate loads.

Hornady's data has loads up to 300 grains! :)

[zuke]

Well I broke my extractor.
Any idea's if there are any spare's around?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Did any one ever find LeMag?

I have referenced this conversion several times here as he used to advertise in the NRA mag in the 80's.

Would love to see one. Or at least a picture of one.

Randy

[kenyerian]

http://www.manta.com/c/mmczknx/lemag Try this link OOps I see Charlie beat me to it.

[kenyerian]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.450_Bushmaster Here is another reference

[Larry Gibson]

I've built four .45 ACP long guns on Mauser actions using the Rhineland kits. While I do love mine as it is a lot of fun to shoot but it in no way will out perform the M1 Carbine. The M1 carbine is a 300 yard weapon and it's easy for 200 yards without adjusting the sights. The .45 ACP rifle makes for a 100 yard weapon without some serious sight adjustment. With hard ball the .30 Carbine does the job regardless of the war stories to the contrary. I have used the .30 Carbine in the late SE Asian war games and if the bullet was put in the right place Nathanial went down. Instead of believing bar room war stories one might read LTC John Georges, Shots Fired In Anger. Also the .45 ACP with hardball will not "knockem" down" if you hit em in the little pinky like most bar room war stories have it.

The .45 ACP rifle is fun to play and if it was a semi auto it would certainly suffice for close range serious social discourse. I'd much prefer the .30 M1 carbine loaded with 90 - 110 gr expandinding bullet at 1900 - 2100 fps (my preference being the 90 gr XTP at 2150 fps or the Hornady 100 gr HJ at 1950 fps) for such as the range and terminal effect are much better than the .45 ACP is even at close range.

As to conversions on of the best I considered back in the '70s was a .30 cal necked down cartridge made with shortened 30 Rem cases. All that was needed was a rechamber job and the bolt face opened. Ballistics were boosted to 2300 fps with the 110 gr RN bullets. I think and gas adjustment screw was also put in the side of gas cylinder to adjust/limit the gas thrust on the piston. Never got around to doing it though.

Larry Gibson

[Hang Fire]

IIRC, when I was in the army over 50 winters ago, the M-deuce carbine was the fastest firing shoulder weapon they had.

A sgt. who had been in Korea said the guys doing LP stints preferred the M-deuce, as they could spray like mad with it. One night he and two other guys were in a FLP when they almost got over run by a large Chinese patrol. He said they fired their M-deuce carbines full auto so much, the barrels near the muzzles glowed bright red.

[zuke]

http://www.manta.com/c/mmczknx/lemag Try this link OOps I see Charlie beat me to it.

Tried it and it's been disconnected.