Explain this to me.

[d_striker]

After firing and recovering jacketed bullets, there are definite rifling marks on the bullet. Deep land and groove marks that are easy to see and even feel.

After recovering some of my cast bullets, I notice no such marks. I know that they are sized right. My barrel slugs at .355" and by boolits are .3565". What gives?

[wallenba]

What do your cylinder chamber throats check?

[oneokie]

What wallenba said, and how fast are you pushing the boolits?

[redriverhunter]

I am by far not a subject matter expert in this, I believe in the lee loading manual i read something about a bullet being pushed to fast, and would not show the rifling groves the term lee used was stripped it was because a boolit was pushed by a fast powder while a slower powder showed groves in the bullet if i remember corectly.

[d_striker]

What do your cylinder chamber throats check?

I don't know what that is. Aren't cylinders on revolvers? Said load has been fired out of an xdm 9 and a sig pro. Velocity is around 1050 fps.

[d_striker]

I am by far not a subject matter expert in this, I believe in the lee loading manual i read something about a bullet being pushed to fast, and would not show the rifling groves the term lee used was stripped it was because a boolit was pushed by a fast powder while a slower powder showed groves in the bullet if i remember corectly.

I'm using 3.5 gr bullseye. What are some powders that would give me sub 1000 fps velocity using a 124 gr boolit in 9mm. WST?

[Jim]

I'm using 3.5 gr bullseye. What are some powders that would give me sub 1000 fps velocity using a 124 gr boolit in 9mm. WST?

You should be able to find that data in one of your load manuals.

[redriverhunter]

I should have paid more attention I believe in the lee manual they were talking about rifles not pistols so that may be like compairing apples and oranges so I dont know. How are the groups with cast boolits if they are tight and no leading what is there to worrie about

[sagacious]

Cast lead bullets often have the rifling marks rubbed-off by impact and contact through the recovery medium. In my experience, this is fairly common in recovered bullets fired from auto-pistols. Copper jackets retain the rifling land/groove marks because the copper is hard enough to preserve them in most cases.

Non-expanding 9mm bullets really penetrate to a surprising degree. The length of travel through any medium soft enough to not excessively damage the lead bullet still provides ample opportunity for the shallow rifling marks to be rubbed-off, or reduced to a significant degree. In many instances, the lead just cannot preserve those marks as copper will. Very hard lead bullets will often preserve and show the rifling marks quite well, though.

That's my experience, anyway. Hope this helps, good luck! :drinks:

[d_striker]

You should be able to find that data in one of your load manuals.

The only manual I have with a good amount of cast loads is Modern Reloading by Lee. I don't really trust the velocities listed though. For instance, it lists 4.7 grains of bullseye with a 125 gr lead bullet at 1111 fps.

3.5 gr of bullseye gives me an average of 1050 fps with a 124 gr lead bullet. Now that I think of it, there's no way in hell I'd ever load 4.7 gr if bullseye with a 124 gr lead bullet

[Bret4207]

What do the recovered boolits measure diameter-wise? I've seen a similar thing with 45 boolits and I put it down to shallow rifling and the slug upsetting. Even WW at 45 velocity expands in some mediums, more of a swelling then expansion but enough to wipe out the rifling impressions.

[44man]

Cast lead bullets often have the rifling marks rubbed-off by impact and contact through the recovery medium. In my experience, this is fairly common in recovered bullets fired from auto-pistols. Copper jackets retain the rifling land/groove marks because the copper is hard enough to preserve them in most cases.

Non-expanding 9mm bullets really penetrate to a surprising degree. The length of travel through any medium soft enough to not excessively damage the lead bullet still provides ample opportunity for the shallow rifling marks to be rubbed-off, or reduced to a significant degree. In many instances, the lead just cannot preserve those marks as copper will. Very hard lead bullets will often preserve and show the rifling marks quite well, though.

That's my experience, anyway. Hope this helps, good luck! :drinks:
This is the answer! :mrgreen: Lead gets rubbed off going through things.

[GabbyM]

If the rifling was stripping the bullet I'd think you'd have a huge lead fowling problem. So if the barrel stays clean and the rounds are accurate I'd eliminate stripping. Just my amateur opinion.

Yes 4.7gr of bullseye sounds extreme. Lyman's book list a max of 4.2gr of Bullseye for their #356242 RN 120gr bullet at 1175 fps. Lee's 2R bullet does have a lot of nose weight so perhaps it doesn't take up so much case capacity but I'd be very wary of that. Therein lies a big issue with interpolating load data from one bullet to another even though they may have the same total weight. We all know that in a 9 x 19mm a 32nd of an inch of case capacity can be the difference between a good shooting powder charge and an over pressured one.

[HammerMTB]

If you want some good load reference data, d/l Wiljen's Reloader's Reference.
Here's (http://sourceforge.net/projects/reloadersrfrnce/) a link to it.
I use it a lot, and I can add my loads to the database, so it grows and keeps my loads organized.



The only manual I have with a good amount of cast loads is Modern Reloading by Lee. I don't really trust the velocities listed though. For instance, it lists 4.7 grains of bullseye with a 125 gr lead bullet at 1111 fps.

3.5 gr of bullseye gives me an average of 1050 fps with a 124 gr lead bullet. Now that I think of it, there's no way in hell I'd ever load 4.7 gr if bullseye with a 124 gr lead bullet

[happy7]

The XDm barrel has very shallow rifling. My experience is that bullets loaded with any fast powder like bullseye strip through the rifling in my XDm. If this is what is happening to you, accuracy would be terrible. A slower powder would then help.

[44man]

Rifling is not always rifling. Could they have been correct long ago with .010" deep grooves for a round ball? Now we see rifling of .003" deep. It needs HARD boolits or jacketed bullets.
Do not expect every barrel to shoot cast.
Marlin made the Ballard rifling for cast---Yeah sure, piece of **** at .003", same as Micro Groove. Micro Groove has more boolit grip. Ballard was NOT .003". Stupid paper pushing pencil necks! :bigsmyl2:

[d_striker]

The XDm barrel has very shallow rifling. My experience is that bullets loaded with any fast powder like bullseye strip through the rifling in my XDm. If this is what is happening to you, accuracy would be terrible. A slower powder would then help.

Accuracy is great with said load and xdm.

[d_striker]

Cast lead bullets often have the rifling marks rubbed-off by impact and contact through the recovery medium. In my experience, this is fairly common in recovered bullets fired from auto-pistols. Copper jackets retain the rifling land/groove marks because the copper is hard enough to preserve them in most cases.

Non-expanding 9mm bullets really penetrate to a surprising degree. The length of travel through any medium soft enough to not excessively damage the lead bullet still provides ample opportunity for the shallow rifling marks to be rubbed-off, or reduced to a significant degree. In many instances, the lead just cannot preserve those marks as copper will. Very hard lead bullets will often preserve and show the rifling marks quite well, though.

That's my experience, anyway. Hope this helps, good luck! :drinks:

I believe this is the answer as well.

[runfiverun]

finally me and 44 man agree.
wait this happened once before just not sure what is was about.
anyways back to the question.
shallow rifling will leave faint impressions and the 5r type almost none at all [metford]
i tried to shoot paper patched through a 7.7 jap rifle and couldn't even get the paper to shred.
finally figured out those rounded over grooves had no sharp corners to grab anything just like a marlin microsmooth bbl.
you gotta go big and hard in one of those.
i'll just stick to the 92's and 94's when dealing with cast.

[wallenba]

I don't know what that is. Aren't cylinders on revolvers? Said load has been fired out of an xdm 9 and a sig pro. Velocity is around 1050 fps.

Your right, that got by me. I assumed it was a revolver, went back and reread,
.356=9mm sa.