Cape buffalo with .45 Linebaugh

[Bucks Owin]

I expect most of us, at least the .45 Colt fans, have read John Linebaugh's classic article "The .45 Colt Dissolving the Myth, Discovering the Potential". (For those who haven't: http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm) As Paul Harvey used to say "Here's the ressst of the storay": http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=321&magid=24 Notice the original Seville that John used to start it all. Wouldn't you love to own THAT historic sixgun! From Ross' chronograph to Africa, it's done it all. Enjoy, Dennis

[frank505]

having used the 45colt and a 310 nei keith as well as the old nei 335 and 360 keith on bison, i would say it works well if the bullet is placed well. most of our experience has been with the 310, something like 50 animals at 800 to 900 pounds.

[HollandNut]

As one who has taken ten capes in my life , I take it with a grain of salt , a big grain ..

I'm sure the PH plugged the ole dagga as well ..

Didnt go to the link ..

[Bucks Owin]

Didnt go to the link .. Didn't pay attention to your "opinion" either..[smilie=f:

[AJ Peacock]

Bucks,

Thanks for the nice links, they were very enlightening. It's good to learn something every day. After reading the articles, I'd bet the .45 did take that buffalo, it certainly seems to be adequate to the job after following the links and reading the article; but I haven't taken 10 buffalo's [smilie=1: :rolleyes:


AJ

[crgaston]

Thanks for the link. I have that issue stashed somewhere, I believe. Back in the early '80's I had a Guns&Ammo with an article by Ross Seyfried detailing his gun and hunt. Does anyone remember this? I'd love to find it again.

[targetshootr]

I always wanted a gun like Seyfrieds #13 done as a 45 colt. He debated calibers and went with 475 over the 45 colt and I don't think he even considered the 454. He wrote about it in G&A 1992, iirc.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/Im003108.jpg

[Bass Ackward]

There was a man that killed buffalo by the hundred with a handgun. People used to come from all over the world to hunt with him. A Russian Prince came over and he brought a new ultra powered handgun that was presented to his host. That handgun laid waste to every buffalo it was used on.

The buffalo hunter was absolutely in awe of the new found power. The caliber was the lowly 44 Russian with a 200 grain bullet and the buffalo hunter was Buffalo Bill Cody.

I would say that the odds are pretty good that the 45 Colt is probably a slight improvement above that.

[Whitworth]

As one who has taken ten capes in my life , I take it with a grain of salt , a big grain ..

I'm sure the PH plugged the ole dagga as well ..

Didnt go to the link ..


No salt necessary, Jack, he killed the buff with the .45.

[yondering]

There was a man that killed buffalo by the hundred with a handgun. People used to come from all over the world to hunt with him. A Russian Prince came over and he brought a new ultra powered handgun that was presented to his host. That handgun laid waste to every buffalo it was used on.

The buffalo hunter was absolutely in awe of the new found power. The caliber was the lowly 44 Russian with a 200 grain bullet and the buffalo hunter was Buffalo Bill Cody.

I would say that the odds are pretty good that the 45 Colt is probably a slight improvement above that.

Can you quote a source for that? I'd like to read about it. I did a research paper on Buffalo Bill in school, but never saw anything about killing buffalo with a handgun.
I'm not saying a 44 Russian can't kill a buffalo, just wondering why Cody would have used that instead of his rifle?

[MtGun44]

If I remember correctly, the bison killing with handguns was a fun stunt done by many
of the 'dudes' that came out the the US west to shoot bison. Ride up along side one
on horseback and pump him full of lead from the handgun at 6-10 ft range, maybe even
less. Knowing the penetration of the .44 and .45 upper tier handguns of the day, it
is credible, esp with dumping the whole cylinder into the beast.

Bill

[waksupi]

If I remember correctly, the bison killing with handguns was a fun stunt done by many
of the 'dudes' that came out the the US west to shoot bison. Ride up along side one
on horseback and pump him full of lead from the handgun at 6-10 ft range, maybe even
less. Knowing the penetration of the .44 and .45 upper tier handguns of the day, it
is credible, esp with dumping the whole cylinder into the beast.

Bill

I imagine many were just wounded, with no follow up. Shooters back then were real slobs. Audubon related when they stopped at a trading post, the people there had kept track of shots fired into game, and recovered game. The number was about a third of the animals hit. They figured there were enough animals if something didn't fall somewhere convenient, they would just shoot another.

[NickSS]

I read Buffalo Bills own book on his career and he talks about the hunt he too the Russian on and he talks about shooting 30 to 50 buffalo by riding along side of them and shooting them with his rifle. The book does not mention handguns at all in regards to hunting buffalo. Beside which this hunt occured before the Russians bought any revolvers from S&W. I have only killed one buffalo and I did it with an 1866 Springfield trapdoor rifle in 50-70 (the same rifle buffalo Bill used). I will also state that if you shoot a buffalo through the lungs with ahand gun of sufficient power to drive the bullet into the lungs and do some damage the animal will eventually die but it may take awhile. Now if a fellow was shooting at a Cape Buffalo (not an american Bison (commonly called a Buffalo here in the states) That is a horse of a different color. It would have to be a potent load indeed and shot placement would have to be perfect. I personally have not shot a Cape Buffalo but if I were to hunt them you can be sure of two things. One is that my rifle would be at least a 416 Rigby in power and I would have a professional hunter backing me up.

[Lucky Joe]

Thanks for the link. I have that issue stashed somewhere, I believe. Back in the early '80's I had a Guns&Ammo with an article by Ross Seyfried detailing his gun and hunt. Does anyone remember this? I'd love to find it again.

I have that magazine here somewhere, I'll try to find it and scan a copy for you.

[Bucks Owin]

Lucky Joe, does that article detail other game Ross Seyfried used Linebaugh's .45 El Dorado on? Reading both articles, it seems apparent that the sixgun John built to show Mr Seyfried in the "Dissolving the Myth" article is the same gun Ross used on the Cape buffalo. Linebaugh must've gave Ross that sixgun. That pistola has had a busy life! Something else I find interesting in Ross Seyfried's article is his experience with the .44 mag. Seems he thought the .44 was "ok" shooting heavy lead bullets but pretty dismal with jacketed. Also, I would have thought that the .44 mag and .45 "Linebaugh" would have performed pretty much the same but Seyfried seemed to have little faith in the .44 mag. His buffalo kill seemed a little bit lucky in that he first tried a head shot which only PO'ed the buff after knocking it down, then two shoulder shots which kinda distracted and slowed it up and finally a round at the base of the neck which ended the festivities. At any rate, the .45 "got 'er done" and stopped a charging Cape buffalo. I'd be too "cajones challenged" to try such a stunt personally! Gimme at least .45/70 shooting something like a Garrett Hammerhead boolit: http://www.garrettcartridges.com/050100.asp with maybe a .50 BMG for backup! :Fire:

[crgaston]

I have that magazine here somewhere, I'll try to find it and scan a copy for you.


Lucky Joe, that would be fantastic. Even just getting the date or issue # would be much appreciated.

[c.r.]

Lucky Joe, that would be fantastic. Even just getting the date or issue # would be much appreciated.

try Guns & Ammo, April 1986. page 40. It's titled The Ultimate Sport Handgunning Cape Buffalo

~c.r.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I have a 4" Anaconda in 45LC that handles some pretty stout loads from time to time. And, I have hunted Cape Buffalo in Zimbabwe; eleven months ago. Wandering in amongst a herd of 90-100 even with my CZ 450 Dakota custom was a bit of an adrenaline rush. Even better, was standing with elephant ten feet to one side of me and six to the other. I would have taken a shot on Buff within 25 yards with my Anaconda. A good hard cast 320-360gr bullet at 1200fps would have broken a shoulder and put a bull down. The fun part would have been when the other herd members figured out who the two white dudes were with the guns...

Rich

[DanWalker]

having used the 45colt and a 310 nei keith as well as the old nei 335 and 360 keith on bison, i would say it works well if the bullet is placed well. most of our experience has been with the 310, something like 50 animals at 800 to 900 pounds.
I may get to shoot a cow bison next week.
Any tips would be appreciated.
Planning on using my 45LC blackhawk with 320 grain hammer boolits. Is 1000fps enough for this job, or do they need pushed faster? They'll be cast from ACWW. Bison are on a ranch by Douglas WY. From what I hear, it isn't much of a hunt, but the freezer full of meat should more than make up for it.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

"hunting " buffalo was not much of a sport 160 years ago. You "hunted" for a small herd, set up on your sticks, and began shooting them. I've harvested a few in the last four years. They provide an awful lot of meat for the freezer, and a hair on rug about 7"X9".
You should have plenty of load for that, within 50 yards I reckon.

Rich

[TDC]

The OP did ask about Cape Buffalo.

I think most will agree there is a world of difference between the American plains buffalo and the African Cape.

The Bison is a thick skinned, big boned, tough critter in its own right, but for aggressiveness, just plain meanness, and a historic and often demonstrated desire to kill a person who wounds it, even to the point of ambushing a tracking hunter is a well documented fact with the Cape. The Bison just doesn't compare to the Cape in that extremely dangerous regard..

I haven't shot either but from all the information I've read through the years, the consideration for what caliber I'd use for the Cape would be vastly different than what I'd be willing to try for a Bison... especially if there wasn't a very tall tree to climb close at hand. Knowing my life was at stake with this animal would certainly head me in the direction of "over-kill" rather than risk "under-kill." Yes the 45 Linebaugh should work... or the S&W 500 ... or any comparable caliber .... but even they would give me pause...

JMHO.....:smile:

[Bucks Owin]

I may get to shoot a cow bison next week.
Any tips would be appreciated.
Planning on using my 45LC blackhawk with 320 grain hammer boolits. Is 1000fps enough for this job, or do they need pushed faster? They'll be cast from ACWW. I think your load will be fine. Probably penetrate clear through the ribcage! That said, I think I'd be inclined to use the Linebaugh "big/dangerous" load just to see how well it worked. That'd be a water dropped straight WW bullet of 310/325 grs over 24 grs of H-110 for 1250 fps. Just over 27K pressure wise according to Hodgdon. Just what a .45 Blackhawk thrives on, heavy doses of slow powder, big bullet....JMO, Dennis 8-) (Linebaugh on right) http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/BucksOwin/john_ted_buffalo.jpg

[44man]

I have no idea how much animal the .45 will penetrate, nothing big enough here. But we shoot all kinds of stuff for fun.
Here is a 16" diameter tree shot with both the .45 using the 320 gr Lyman boolit that actually weighs 347 gr, It is doing 1160 fps and the .475 with a 420 gr boolit going 1329 fps.
The .45 even took a large chunk out of the grapevine and I tried to dig it out of the ground but never found it.
You all have seen the 14 one gallon water jugs the .475 penetrated after blowing up the first 4.
Now I am not saying you need these velocities but they are my most accurate loads and that comes first for me.
I would like to hear from more of you about what a good boolit does on very large animals. Revolvers just continue to impress me even though I have shot the .44 since 1956.

[Bullshop]

I have told this story before but hay I like to tell it. I was guiding for caribou on the Mulchatna river. I had two caribou down to retrieve from two hunters the day before and still one hunter to take out.
Since my packer/trainee guide and I had so much meat to pack I left my rifle (35 Whelen Imp.) at camp and took only my Ruger Bisley 45 colt.
On our way out we ran into some caribou and the hunter decided to take a fair bull from the bunch. The caribou were moving at a brisk walk headed into a steady tundra breeze. The hunter a proclaimed expert was shooting a 7mm Rem mag with I think 140gn ballistic tips. He emptied his gun and hit every shot but not allowing any lead for the 300 yard shots every shot drifted back to strike the guts.
He had one sick caribou that being too sick to move just laid down. I told him it was not dead because its head was up and to finish it off. He said there was enough holes in his trophy and it would die.
I walked out to the caribou with only my 45 loaded with my favorite Saeco 300gn Keith at about 1,000 fps. When I got near I approached from the rear and when very near the caribou got up and started walking straight away.
I looked back at the hunter and he had his back to me but my packer was watching with binoes.
At about 30 yards I fired the shot aimed at the center of what I could see, which was the but. At the shot the bou dropped stone dead.
When my packer came over I asked if he had seen the shot. He said yes he watched it and said he saw the hide stretch out at the chest and a puff of hair there. After skinning we found that the 300gn 45 had penetrated end to end.
I had to take a little guff from the hunter for putting another hole in his hide right where he didn't want one. No worries though I did what needed done.
BIC/BS

[Bucks Owin]

I have no idea how much animal the .45 will penetrate, nothing big enough here. But we shoot all kinds of stuff for fun.
Here is a 16" diameter tree shot with both the .45 using the 320 gr Lyman boolit that actually weighs 347 gr, It is doing 1160 fps and the .475 with a 420 gr boolit going 1329 fps.
The .45 even took a large chunk out of the grapevine and I tried to dig it out of the ground but never found it.
You all have seen the 14 one gallon water jugs the .475 penetrated after blowing up the first 4.
Now I am not saying you need these velocities but they are my most accurate loads and that comes first for me.
I would like to hear from more of you about what a good boolit does on very large animals. Revolvers just continue to impress me even though I have shot the .44 since 1956. I use a discarded plastic ice chest packed tight with 22" of wet phonebooks to tack targets on. This lets me catch lead bullets for recycling. Recently, while testing a .45 LC "SAAMI" load, a 250 gr XTP penetrated clear through. (Albeit barely, I found the bullet on the ground) That bullet was doing less than 900 fps 3 feet from the muzzle! Guess I'll need a bigger ice chest for the 325 gr at 1250 fps! Yes, big bore sixguns are wonderful.....(And don't need "warp speed" for good penetration) Best regards, Dennis

[snowwolfe]

One of the largest bears ever killed in Alaska was shot by a native lady about 10 yards away with a single bullet from a .22 LR. She hit it in the ear where the bullet entered the brain and the bear dropped dead. That does not mean the .22 is a good bear gun.

Pretty much any caliber can kill most any animal alive but that does not mean it is the correct choice.

[Bucks Owin]

One of the largest bears ever killed in Alaska was shot by a native lady about 10 yards away with a single bullet from a .22 LR. She hit it in the ear where the bullet entered the brain and the bear dropped dead. That does not mean the .22 is a good bear gun.

Pretty much any caliber can kill most any animal alive but that does not mean it is the correct choice. As I remember, it was a grizzly that was caught in a trap that the injun gal dispatched. I think at one time it was a record bear too. Jack O'Connor mentioned this incident in one of his books decades ago.....Dennis

[Lloyd Smale]

should work fine. the smallest gun ive shot them with is a 44 mag using a 250 grain cast hp at about 1200 fps and your load is definately superior to that load.
I may get to shoot a cow bison next week.
Any tips would be appreciated.
Planning on using my 45LC blackhawk with 320 grain hammer boolits. Is 1000fps enough for this job, or do they need pushed faster? They'll be cast from ACWW. Bison are on a ranch by Douglas WY. From what I hear, it isn't much of a hunt, but the freezer full of meat should more than make up for it.

[44man]

Too many put down the six gun today with all the hype over velocity and energy dump.
I would not like to be in the old west being shot at with the things even with the pipsqueak loads. Look at the civil war and the massive wounds from BP guns. Look at the millions of buf shot and how the guns fed all the people moving west.
How I love a good revolver! :cbpour:

[DanWalker]

Well, my question won't be definitavely answered for a while now. I'm headed back o ND to drill another well tomorrow.