414 Supermag Project

[missionary5155]

Good evening
Received my Dan Wesson 375 Supermag frame back from the Gunsmith today WITH a new .410 barrel made to fit my 375 SM frame.
I finished the final fitting of my "in the white" 414 cylinder to the frame. Opens and closes better than the origonal 375 cylinder with less end shake. Naturally I have the motive and time to "Custom" fit a cylinder. Dan Wesson did a GREAT job with the origonal 375 cylinder. I only need to do some polishing around the 414's outer front cylinder to remove some metal burrs that drag on the barrel face. For now it will have to remain unblued as I have little time left before I need to pack up and head back to Peru.... and there are several other projects in the works. Plus I want to do some more bow hunting. Still have one more unfilled tag.
Tomorrow I hope to reassemble the frame and do the final testing of cylinder alignment, clearances, rotation, and whatever else pops up. Then I get to start the really fun part.
I plan on loading a 265 grain gas check boolit made of linotype to start with. For load info I will use 445 SM start loads as there is not that much difference between 445 & 414 case capacities. Probably start with a easy load of 10 grains Unique to fire form 50 pieces of brass then switch to 2400 and eventually to 296 for my high end loads. My goal is 1500 fps. Case web expansion will be my pressure "safety valve".
Is it worth the trouble.... YEP ! Have you seen a 414 SM for sale ? Me either. Saw one 2 years ago for over $1000. There were "maybe" 125 made. Some say there were only 50 414 revolvers built. Right now I have $237 invested plus time in this change over.
More commo will follow. [smilie=2:

[S.R.Custom]

...I plan on loading a 265 grain gas check boolit made of linotype to start with. For load info I will use 445 SM start loads as there is not that much difference between 445 & 414 case capacities... [smilie=2:

I'd trim a few .414 and .445 cases to bullet seating length and find the percentage difference in powder volumes. The equivalent bullet weight in the .445 is the 300 grain unit, and I'd use that data as a basis for the percentage comparison.

I'd also be hesitant to use 296 as a high end powder-- it's too fast and hot. It'd be fine for 210/215 gr. bullets, tho. Given the powders that recently have been very difficult to obtain, I just went through a major re-evaluation of SM powders. I've settled on the new IMR4227 as the top end powder for this caliber, with velocities in the .445 and 300 grain cast bullet running right at 1600 fps in my converted Ruger Maximum, with no apparent pressure problems. And since 4227 is a single base powder, it'll keep throat erosion to a minimum.

Lastly, I would not use case expansion as a pressure guide in load development. Small arms cartridge brass has a minimum yield strength of 60KPSI, which means yould have that kind of pressure before you'd expand a case. Pretty spooky stuff in a reamed out clinder. Let flattened Mag-pistol primers be your guide. That way you'll keep pressures this side of 50 KPSI, healthy enough for revolver magnums.

That's my take based on my SM experience. Take it for what you paid for it. :D

[missionary5155]

Greetings SUPERMAG
I have an origonal 414 cylinder, that is why I have the fitting job.
But the rest is helpful info... THANKS. I did a review of my 375sm loadings with a 255 Lyman and 4227 was the winner in velocity plus accuracy. Still digging for REAL 414 SM loading info. Some is available but most is with the light weight jacket stuff.

[bisleyfan41]

Neat project you got going on there!!

[GLynn41]

sounds like fun--I have- a .41/445 - a little different maybe a little more I guess-- I have taken 3 deer with it --hard on deer

[S.R.Custom]

Still digging for REAL 414 SM loading info. Some is available but most is with the light weight jacket stuff.

Good luck with that. I think you're kinda on your own there; you'll probably have to extrapolate data from the 375 and 445. The .414 is no different from the other two with respects to what powders it likes, so it's not like you're totally alone in the wilderness. I do recall seeing some data on one of those online reloading sites (reloader's bench?). Problem was, it was subscriber provided, so there were some rather unbelievable accuracy and velocity claims.

That said, I think 296/110, IMR4227, and AA1680 are your powders from light bullet weights to heavy, in that order.

I did some experimenting with some duplex loads (I'm not going to tell you what they were), but it turned out to be a failure. Velocities, while higher, were all over the place, indicating to me that the old raisin bran principle was in effect. (The overall proportion may be correct in each round, but the mixture homogeneity is never the same from one shot to the next, screwing up the burn pattern.)

Also-- Linotype is not necessary. I've found that when casting heavy bullets for the SM, water quenched wheel weight alloy is plenty hard for good accuracy. 300 grain slugs recovered from fir logs reveal minimally distorted bullets, with the rifling engraving clean and intact. The lube I use is the same thing I use for all my handgun applications, home brewed NRA 50/50. It gives good accuracy, zero leading, even if it is a bit on the messy side.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Thank ALL for the Info.
My first 30 rounds down bore will be a 240 grain FB lubed with metal polish (Metal Glow) on top of 10 grains of Unique. Clean every 6 shots and repeat. Almost seems VILE to start a revolvers life without a taste of Unique.
Then off to the races. My small research all points to Acc 1680. It was my most accurate 375 SM loads with a 255 PB Linotype load. Used that load on a small buck 6 years ago. Also I have 5 # + waiting to get used. That will be a whole heap of shooting. I wish I could today.. but I have a evening service at Shelbyville to get to. But FRIDAY !!

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Scipped lunch yesterday and took out the 18 rounds of 414 I got loaded with a 250 BP lubbed with Metal Glo. The barrel looks nice and smooth ! The load of 9.5 grains Unique shot very well. I could easily hit half clay pidgeons at 25 yards from a rest using the Match Quality sights on the BIG Dan Wesson.
Today if I get some time I will start loading Acc1680 with a 265 GC FN sized to .411 .
I will see if I can find our camera and let you see my 2 tone 414 with ammo.
Now I must gear up and head to my favorite tree and see if some unsuspecting corn muncher will trespass into my 25 yards of sharp pointy flying objects.

[runfiverun]

the last 414 i looked at was 3 grand.
i have the 375 and 445 and 1680 is the powder of choice for both.
i've been kicking around trying aa-2230 for the heavier weights also.

[S.R.Custom]

...i've been kicking around trying aa-2230 for the heavier weights also.

I'll save you the time and effort... it's much too slow. Lots of flame, and greatly reduced velocity. And it's the same story with any of the high density ball powders slower than 1680.

Where AA2230 is showing some promise is in the 444 Marlin. But we're talking a lot more powder and bullet (405 grs) than in the SM.

[felix]

Don't forget RL7. Volume wise, 25 grains is equal to 28 grains of 1680. ... felix

[missionary5155]

Good Evening
Thanks again ALL... Got my 8 poung jug of 1680 sitting on the bench waiting to get opened along with a passle of 265 grain GC boolits.

[missionary5155]

Greetings Found the camara !
Here is what the 414 Looks like. I included the ORIGONAL cylinder, shroud , barrel and loaded 375SM (23.5 grains 1680 under a 255PB).
The shroud with the sight attached is a lowly 357SM shroud with the NEW 410 barrel . The NEW 414 cylinder is in "the white". Imagine if it was chromed.... :cry: One day it will be BLUED.
The 414 Brass & 265 gc (has 2 crinp grooves) is also pictured.

[missionary5155]

Range Report on my 414 SM
Finally got a semi-dry day to return to the range and fire some rounds through the 414 Dan Wesson.
In a nutshell...
22-24.5g 1680 & 265 gc were "plinker" loads hardly shaking the hand.
25.5g " .60" at 25 yards 7 shots
26.5 " .70" "
27.5 " .80" "
28.5 " .90 "
29.5 " .75c "
No BAD pressure signs were observed. Web expansion difference between 24.5 & 29.5 grains 1680 was only .001 with cases easily sliding out of the cylinder.
From here I will advance using .5 grain incriments. It looks like at 30 grains this bullet base seated at the second crimp groove (longest nose profile) will begin to compress the 1680 loads.
Have to wait till gun hunting ends to have range access as we shut it down for nearby hunting.

[Three44s]

You have yourself a cracker jack of a revolver going there!

What boolit is in your pics? I notice a dual crimping groove.

Congrats

My foray into the world of .410 bored round shooters includes a DW blued Monson gun with a six inch barrel and chambered in .41 Rem mag. As a Smith & Wesson fan, I am always on the look out for a really FINE TRIGGER ...... some Smiths have it and some are just in need of a tune up by a really good gunsmith.

And my DW did not start out good but after a real big dousing of gun scrubber and reoiling with Tetra gun .............

It's OUTSTANDING! You don't break that trigger in SA ...........

....... you THINK IT!

VIVA DW!!!

Three 44s

[missionary5155]

Good morning
The Boolit is a two groove design I requested giving the option of being able to use this in my Marlin 41 CB, my Rugers, or my DW's. A 265GC is getting close to a GREAT all purpose weight for 41 Mag in the long DW cylinders. I am thinking with all the extra case on the 414SM and again the LONG DW cylinders maybe a 285g may be the Better boolit to be loading. But whatever this 265g wil probably make a nice long range thumper. May have to get my 2x Leupold mounted back on it and get to 100 yards before I head back south to Peru.