Keeping the caps on BP Cylinders

[Acronn]

What do others do to improve the reliability of BP pistol shooting? I have always had trouble shooting my .44 BP Cap and Ball pistol more than one shot without picking out the small metal bits of the percussion cap after they have been fired, plus the other caps get jarred loose during handling and firing. These bits of used caps, or even whole unfired caps interfere with the rotation of the cylinder. No problem at the range, but if you really needed reliability, what did the oldtimers do? Seems to me there must be a way to improve reliability but I haven't found it yet. I know the conversion cylinders would eliminate this problem but I am interested in learning what they did in the old days, when they really relied on their pistols to function.

[j20owner]

As for the burnt, bits of broken used caps:

I understand that the 'oldtimers' would raise the muzzle of the gun after firing and while cocking to allow the bits and pieces to fall away from the action and then realign sights for shooting.

As for keeping them on, NO IDEA!:lol: Sorry I'm not much more help.

[stubshaft]

Sounds like you are using the wrong size caps for your gun. Yes, percussion caps vary in size! I would suggest you take your nipple with you to the gun shop and see if they will let you try different caps to find one that fits snugly.

[S.R.Custom]

...if you really needed reliability, what did the oldtimers do? Seems to me there must be a way to improve reliability... I am interested in learning what they did in the old days, when they really relied on their pistols to function.

They invented cartridges...

Seriously. Colt patented the percussion cap revolver in 1836. In very short order the people had said "this is [edit]" and within 9 years the fully encased metal rimfire cartridge was invented. By 1860 the percussion cap muzzle-loading revolver was essentially obsolete.

Considering the long history of firearms development, the nipple-mounted percussion cap was one innovation that didn't last very long.

[NickSS]

Actually there were not many metallic cartridge revolvers in the country until well into the late 1860s and early 1870s and percussion revolvers were in everyday use in many places well into the 1900s for serious work. As for caps you did not mention you make of revolver but most take No 10 caps except on lots of Italian guns CCI caps are too small. You can do one of two things. The first is reduce the diameter of you nipples so that No 10s fit snug but all the way down. The other is do what I do and that is I pinch a No 11 cap slightly when placing them on the nipple. This holds them in place so they wont fall off before you fire them. As for fragments of caps its a technique thing as well as a cap thing. I have some Italian caps that fit the nipples perfectly but they are also made from fairly thick metal and they get stuck on the nipples when fired. I need a set of needle nose pliers to get them off. I only use them infrequently for this reason but I have no trouble with cap fragments. Remington, CCI, and RWS caps all fragment when fired. On a Remington replica tilt the revolver to the right and cock the hammer fast. This usually throws the cap fragment out the side of the revolver. On a Colt replica tilt the muzzle up and briskly cock the hammer. Cap fragments will either drop free to the rear of be thrown out the right side. Colts are the biggest pain with fragments as if you cock it level there is a chance that a cap fragment can fall right down inside the gun and jam it up to a point that you need to disassemble them. About the worst that happens with a Remington is that a cap can prevent cocking. If this happens pull the hammer back till it stops and let it go. This will mash the fragment and one or two of these will generally mash it enough so you can cock the pistol and the fragment will drop out the side.

[44man]

I use nothing but Rem no. 10's. They break up nice and don't tie the gun up. CCI would be my next choice.
I WANT them to fall away, nothing worse then trying to pick a hard, stuck one off a nipple.

[Archer]

You have to have a tight fitting cap.
I have no problem with my Ruger
Old Army jamming because of blown caps,
but I've got a good tight fit on the nipple.
As j20owner said above, the old timers
would raise the gun to cock it so any loose
bits of metal would fall away. Or so I've been told.

[Acronn]

Thanks, these are all good tips. I tried the #10 cap, (you're right on - the gun is a Piatta) and it is too small with 10's. Misfires, won't even ignite the cap. Maybe if I did thin the nipples down that would work very well.. Also the pinch is a good idea with the 11's and I do that, but not always.. maybe thinning the nipple down to put a groove where a pinched cap would sit into the groove a little bit might be custom, but make it more reliable. Either way, the caps I've got don't fit perfectly. I've never had great luck with the caps staying on really tight. While I'm on the subject, I would prefer a cap that did not break apart and tic my hand with shrapnel when I'm shooting.. and instead they would stay on, and I can pick them off with my fingernail, or use a tool if I had to. Better than breaking apart. I wonder if the hammer / nipple distance could be made to an optimum so the caps would not shatter.

[NickSS]

I have not seen Italian number 11 caps for sale in years. Dixie and Navy arms used to carry them. They stay on and in fact are difficult to remove without a pair of pliers. If you could find them you would be set. I bought 20,000 of them some 20 years ago and have a couple thousand left but I only use them when hunting with my revolver.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Tresso Nipples and Remington #10 caps. There is a fellow in Ohio that Welds the Hammers Flat and I have heard it works.

Sam :D

[SmuvBoGa]

In addition to trying other size caps you MAY "buff", file, grind your nips to a smaller size; you can with some cussing & fussing get your nips to fit the caps you want to use - you can also lightly pinch the caps on the nips - don't go gorilla doing this, just snug up the bottom of the cap to where it is a snug fit on the nips. Sounds like you MAY want to shorten the length of the nips too - just a SMALL bit so the hammer doesn't totaly smash into the nipples - and crush the copper caps while doing so.

[Acronn]

That's exactly what's happening - the hammer is contacting the cap and nip with so much force. I should start tweaking the heights of the nips. So they fit better. Maybe put a copper strip between the cap and the nip and fire down on it to test, get each cylinder set just right. I didn't know about the ITALIAN caps, but a close up picture of one of the nipples for the shape would be neat to see. I didn't quite understand about the guy in Ohio welding the hammers flat.

[saigafan2008]

I used to do Civil War Cavalry re-enacting, and every guy in the unit was taught to pinch the caps when priming and to cock the gun with the barrel up and slightly to the right to help avoid jams caused by primer debris when firing...

Carl

[SmuvBoGa]

Accron,

To "shape" the pistol nips you unscrew then from the cylinder, take a hand file (sharp helps) & using one hand you hold the nip & file together & turn the nip with the other, you "turn" the cone end of the nip - most nips taper wide to narrow going from bottom to top (end where the cap sits) - you reduce the taper on the cap end to more of a parallel tho NOT 100% just in the area where the cap will sit.
This will NOT end the problem of caps falling into the action but it will lessen the problem; AND you need to figure out how to cock the pistol - lean it to the Right a bit & with a snap - to shoot "cap & ball" you GOT TO learn the right attitude - not a real attitude but how to direct the cap frags away from the action - point the barrel down OR up & cock it with a flick of the wrist to the Right.
To the average citizen you will look cool with lots of attitude - but all you are doing is TRYING to prevent jams .... :veryconfu


ALSO you can take a small bit off the top of the nips - too much removed & the caps won't go off - - getting your nips "tuned" takes some cussing

[waksupi]

The easiest way I have found to reduce nipple diameter, is chuck them in a drill, grip the end with sand paper, and spin, checking frequently for fit.

[SmuvBoGa]

GREAT idea, wish I had thought of it - I'll be giving it a try. Will save my thumb & fore finger holding the nipple against the file :-P Thanks !

[JudgeBAC]

I shoot two 1858 Remington reproductions (Pietta) in cowboy action matches. Remington #10 are the caps of choice. So far, I have not had any failures and they both shoot great. Also, Mr. Hickock regularly carried two percussion revolvers long after cartridge revolvers were available. In a historically documented case, Mr. Hickock cleanly dispatched an opponent at 75 yards in a face off over a woman. He was deadly accurate with his 1851 Colts.

[MtGun44]

JudgeBAC-

I find that using Rem #10 caps and pointing the barrel straight up when cocking
the hammer essentially eliminates problems with a Colt 1861 Navy .36 and a
Pietta 1860 Army .44.

The Hickock shooting was over his gold pocket watch, offered as collateral in
a poker game, against a dollar amount to be paid the next day if he lost the hand.
Wild Bill lost the hand and the other player publicly and loudly announced he would
keep and wear the (far more valuable) watch rather than keep his word.

Hickock called him out, and both men stood in the street with handguns. Bill fired
one round through the heart at measured 75 paces in front of many witnesses
while under fire. Considered by many to be the ONLY documented case of two men
stepping into the street and settling a score with handguns, regardless of what
Hollywood has done.

The shoot out was in Springfield, MO. - Hickock was standing next to a
fountain and the other man was under a bar sign, so both men were
accurately located by many witnesses. Spectacular shot, and he could do
that sort of work on demand.

All the details were recorded in the court hearing since Wild Bill was arrested.
The site still exists and the distance has been verified many times. Bill was a
target shooter in the Ft. Leavenworth gun club and known to be an excellent
target shot, plus capable of doing it while lead was flying his way. The 'over
a woman' sounds better, but Wild Bill was a lot more of a gambler than he was
a womanizer - altho he did attend prostitutes, as was typical in the day.

Bill

[shooting on a shoestring]

Gentlemen please do not pinch your caps. That is THE leading cause of chain fires. Fit your nipples to the caps or better yet, go by 6 new properly sized nipples that fit your caps. The caps MUST fit snuggly and SEAL the nipple from a torent of fire when the adjacent cylinder ignites.

When your caps fit properly, they will not give you problems binding in your action.

Yes I am serious about THE leading cause of chain fires.

[StrawHat]

Here is another fix.

http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/colt_cap_and_ball.pdf

I have not tried this as I like to use the safety pins on the cylinder and enlarging the cut in the hammer will defeat this purpose. A couple of guys where I shoot have done this and it works for them.

Unlike conventional thinking, I point the muzzle down to cock the revolver and give it a shale. I also cut the cap groove in the recoil shied a bit larger. That and correctly sized nipples help me.

[Acronn]

Well, it was very easy to trim up the nips to fit better. The problem appears to have been the taper of the nips act as a wedge and when the hammer comes down on them they split due to all the stress. Pinching the nips will be the only way if I use #11, or as many of you have said, #10 caps make a good fit. I will need to do a little bit more fitting if I am going to use #10 caps. I do have both and have tried both.. Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions. I really like this gun, it has been very accurate and a lot of fun to shoot - just shooting targets not for any sort of hunting or protection, but for those of you who have never shot a .44 Remington black powder pistol with about 30 grains of ffg black or pyrodex, with a .454 round ball seated snug against the powder, it is very powerful and the recoil is very mild, not instant and hard like a smokeless powder pistol. It has a much different recoil that I find very comfortable and easy to handle. Just smooooth..