Heavy, subsonic 9mm loads

[Angus]

I like the thoughts of subsonic heavies better than supersonic lightweights. I just bought a Lee 358-150-1R six banger from grafs since my 2 cavity TL356-124-TC is falling apart, and am anxious to see how it behaves coming out of my P89. I have Unique, Red Dot, and Blue dot to play with currently. What would a preferred starting load be with these? Does anyone load this or a similar boolit in 9mm, and is there a better powder for the task?

I am picking up a 6 banger because I hate taking so long to cast up enough boolits to keep me loading for my 9mm. I would hate having to get bogged down lube/sizing each one, so I am planning to tumble them in LLA or JPW and is necessary using the Lee Factory Crimp Die to post-size if the cases are too bulged to chamber happily. Does this sound alright?

[fecmech]

I have the discontinued Lee 356-150-2R and shot it quite a bit in the 9's that I have owned. I used 5.6 of Blue Dot for 1010 fps out of my Highpower and it was fairly accurate. The powder that I've found to work very well with all bullet wts in the 9MM is Hogdon Longshot and with the 150 I used 4.6grs for 1000 fps.

[Edubya]

I like the thoughts of subsonic heavies better than supersonic lightweights. I just bought a Lee 358-150-1R six banger from grafs since my 2 cavity TL356-124-TC is falling apart, and am anxious to see how it behaves coming out of my P89. I have Unique, Red Dot, and Blue dot to play with currently. What would a preferred starting load be with these? Does anyone load this or a similar boolit in 9mm, and is there a better powder for the task?

I am picking up a 6 banger because I hate taking so long to cast up enough boolits to keep me loading for my 9mm. I would hate having to get bogged down lube/sizing each one, so I am planning to tumble them in LLA or JPW and is necessary using the Lee Factory Crimp Die to post-size if the cases are too bulged to chamber happily. Does this sound alright?

Angus, it sounds like you have a lot of anxieties. Slow down and enjoy life a lot more, we don't have a lot of it, you know.
Dedicate a day to casting, not meaning a whole day, but if you cast for four or five hours, you will have plenty of pills to supply you for a while. If you want to go faster, without the time, you will have to get a lot of expensive equipment. You will be able to do your quality control better if you will slow down.
That's why us old farts move slowly, it's not because we can't physically go faster, experience has taught us that we're better off doing it slower.;-)
EW

[robertbank]

3.2 grains of Unique will give you a soft shooting load I suspect. I use that load to make power factor for IDPA using 147 gr boolits. I load them on the short side. One problem you might run into is getting the boolits to stabilize. The 9MM barrels are usually 1 in 10 twist whichis plenty fast for the larger boolits.

2.3 gr of 231 will get you to the same place. Next month I will be working on Universal using the 147 gr boolit and will post results here.

Take Care

Bob

[Angus]

So I got my mold, and WOW is it nice dropping 6 boolits every pour. They drop a bit too big to seat right (they shave lead regardless of how belled the case is). I slobbered them with some mule snot and loaded up the prescribed 3.2gr of Unique and went to the range. It cycled the action perfectly, and there is more recoil in a 22 mag revolver. The brass piled up about one foot to the right of me. There was absolutely no leading either. I have a .357 Lee sizer on the way. Once that shows up, mm mm mmm.

[August]

It seems as though there is nothing that Unique cannot do.

[robertbank]

I've posted this elsewhere but my Lyman mould as it turns out drops my boolits 154 gr. Boolits seem to be stabilizing OK. Little recoil and still makes power factor for IDPA and IPSC. I think the recoil factor involves not experiencing the torque of the 125 gr boolits running around 1100 fps.

Take Care

Bob

[thebridge]

no one has posted here for a little while....it seems our heavy, soft sub-s load secret is safe once again. so if you read the posts above- please ignore them

[kawalekm]

OK, I'll add my load. It's Lyman's 358477 which in my alloy casts out at 151-152 grains. I load this into 9mm with 6.0 grains of Blue Dot.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/9mm_150grainSWC.jpg

[plinker]

I have the discontinued Lee 356-150-2R and shot it quite a bit in the 9's that I have owned. I used 5.6 of Blue Dot for 1010 fps out of my Highpower and it was fairly accurate. The powder that I've found to work very well with all bullet wts in the 9MM is Hogdon Longshot and with the 150 I used 4.6grs for 1000 fps.

I wonder why they discontinued that mold? I would love to have one, I think that would be just what I am looking for for IPSC Production. Otherwise I will be going with the flat point Lyman 147gr mold. I am really interested in trying some heavy boolit 9mm loads.

[Intel6]

I load the Lee 158 RNFP bullet in my 9mm's. It is a great shape because of the flat nose lakes seating easy and they shoot nice.

Neal in AZ

[rmund]

Does anyone have any starting loads for red dot, blue dot, unique or longshot with a 180gr lead bullet?

[GrizzLeeBear]

180 gr. bullet in a 9mm?! There would be no room for powder and the case would bulge so badly that it probably woudn't chamber. Even if you did get some powder in it, I suspect the velocity would be so low that the boolit would not stabalize if it even gets out of the barrel. Just guessing, someone correct me if I am wrong.

[Artful]

The heaviest projectiles I know was a special run for Navy SEAL's use with 170 Sierra Silhouette J-word bullets but that was stopped by slides cracking on the S&W Mk 22 Mod 0's with slide locks. I think it was loaded up my either Sonic's or Knight's armament - with 158/160 grain you don't have much room for powder anyway if loaded to fit in most magazines.

[subsonic]

The heaviest projectiles I know was a special run for Navy SEAL's use with 170 Sierra Silhouette J-word bullets but that was stopped by slides cracking on the S&W Mk 22 Mod 0's with slide locks. I think it was loaded up my either Sonic's or Knight's armament - with 158/160 grain you don't have much room for powder anyway if loaded to fit in most magazines.

I must have the same book as you, Artful :p

In it, they mention the Sierra 170gr FMJ going 975fps @ 40,000psi(!!!) from the Berretta M9. They say this bullet was both re-sized to .354" and also swaged to form a boat-tail base to allow deep seating in the 9mm case. They also are adamant about not trying to duplicate this pressure level - but soon follow with a load of 4.5gr of Unique @ 780fps behind this re-worked bullet.

[Artful]

Al Paulson's I think it was - I'm happy with 158 as upper limit - 147's are fine too.

[Valerko]

I'm really glad search function is working this great and I was able to find this thread.
I was looking for heavier bullets for my CZ 75 and was looking at Lee .358 150g mold .
I guess next step is getting it and tring new bullets in my gun.

[Gremlin460]

I just purchased my first lee 6 cav 124gn RN mould, after playing with it for a few hours I have 1.2K of boolits, I cast using 3 clipon ww and 2 stickon ww muffin ratio. They weigh in at 132.8gn near across all 1.2k.
For paper punching they should be fine?
Thinking of running 5.2-5.6gn Alliance PP for these 9mm shiny things.
anythoughts?
Mike.

[robertbank]

4.1 gr of 231/HP38 is my go to load for IDPA/IPSC using 125 gr boolits. Very accurate in all my 9MM guns.

Take Care

Bob

[scattershot]

I have been playing with Berry's plated 150 gr RN bullets over 4.0 Red Dot. Around 950 fps, and seems to function well. I'm not sure I'd go any higher than that, but that load works great in my pistols.

[bhn22]

358156 works in 9mm if you leave the gascheck off. I size mine to .358, and they kindo of match up with Hornadys 147 JHP in profile if you squint a little bit. I use 3 gr of Bullseye for a plinker load.

[Gremlin460]

OK, 3 different powders suggested, thanks for that. My main issue is our pistol range is semi-indoors, so smoke is definitely a disadvantage when shooting NRA matches against the clock.
That is why I was suggested to try PP as it is one of the lesser smokers for pistol, is this incorrect?

[Artful]

wax/grease lubes will smoke more than PP or dry lubes - check out the lube section for powder coating/paint lubes.

[9.3X62AL]

4.1 gr of 231/HP38 is my go to load for IDPA/IPSC using 125 gr boolits. Very accurate in all my 9MM guns.

Take Care

Bob

Interesting--my factory load duplicator for the 147 grain 9mm sub-sonic JHPs was also 4.1 grains of WW-231.

[subsonic]

I'm going to be trying the Lee 158RF in a 9mm soon... wanted to push this back to the front page.

[Bohica793]

I just poured 100 147 grain FP from my new RCBS 9mm-147-556 mold. Dropped at .358-359 and 154-155 grains using WW+2% tin. I will be working up loads with Bullseye and 231 this weekend.

[subsonic]

My results are here in a new thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?214973-Lee-358-158rf-9mm-and-a-suppressor

[bcp477]

Interesting. Until recently, I loaded 158 grain (cast) for my 9mms. I gave them up because of too many problems with case bulging....and subsequent chambering issues. Using a Lee FCD to "de-bulge" the loaded cases (I tried this too) only swaged the boolit bases down to a dimension smaller than 0.356". So, I got gas-cutting around the bases....and leading as a result. The 9mm case is tapered on the outside....and it also is tapered on the inside - so you end up with a tapered boolit (once the bulge in the case is ironed out). This doesn't bode well. I never could overcome the problems.

One thing, though. I was using boolits designed for 38 Spl. - which, I think, have a much longer bearing portion than most 9mm designs. That may well have been the problem.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't most 147 grain 9mm boolit designs have a long, tapered nose section (longer than lighter 9mm pills), but smaller in diameter than the bearing portion of the boolit ? If so, that is the secret to heavy boolits in the 9mm - keep the bearing portion of the boolit short enough that case bulge is not a problem, but the long nose allows for the extra weight. If my thinking is correct on this (I've never loaded dedicated 9mm designs heavier than 125 gr.)....then the boolits the OP will be trying had better be designed for the 9mm.

Right ? Or am I missing something ?

[Bohica793]

83416

Judge for yourself. The round on the right is the RCBS 9mm-147 cast in COWW + 2% tin. The round on the left is an old Modern Bond 358-755 155 grain SWC.

I loaded two batches of the 147 grain: one with Bullseye and the other with W231. The chrono results are below.


9MM RCBS 147gr FP
Powder: Alliant Bullseye
Primer: Winchester Small Pistol


Grains COL High Low AVG SDev ES
2.8 1.058 837.5 781.0 813.3 19.0 56.5
3.0 1.058 938.7 855.7 900.0 28.6 83.0
3.2 1.058 944.0 907.7 927.2 14.5 36.3
3.4 1.058 991.8 942.3 965.0 19.3 49.5


9MM RCBS 147gr FP
Powder: Winchester 231
Primer: Winchester Small Pistol


Grains COL High Low AVG SDev ES
3.2 1.058 872.0 793.0 833.7 30.7 79.0
3.4 1.058 929.0 848.0 891.3 24.2 81.0
3.6 1.058 967.0 914.0 937.0 18.1 53.0
3.8 1.058 993.0 925.0 965.3 18.7 68.0

[pakmc]

I forget the powder load but I"m shooting a lee 158 SWC (which weights about 160 gr.s) in my CZ 75D 9mm, I've never had a problem with them working(and I didn't size them down to 352 or so) yes, subsonic, but what a self defence load.

[Valerko]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/784750/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-358-150-1r-38-special-357-magnum-38-colt-new-police-38-s-and-w-358-diameter-150-grain-1-ogive-radius

Those 150 g round nose don't work at all in my Cz 75. First they wouldn't go into battery , after shortening OAL it wouldn't feed properly. Any other mold that would work ?