Starline Brass...

[BCB]

Just a couple of quick comments about Starline Brass…

Now then, I know many people use it and have probably never had a problem—fine. I am not here beat up on Starline…

I have been using it in the 44Magnum and the 45 Long Colt. I have the same problems with each caliber…

When I seat a boolit, I seat a bit then turn the case and seat a bit more and then crimp and turn again and crimp. It all sounds like a bunch of work but it really only takes a few seconds once you have done it a few times. I figure this helps to seat the boolit square with the case by rotating it…

I am also getting an occasion misfire from the Starline brass which might also indicate the rim is thinner and it is allowing the primer to be farther from the pin when the pin strikes the primer. The mark on the primer is very shallow, yet the depth of the primer pocket is “the same” as the Hornaday or Remington brass…

Anyhow, the Starline brass, most of the time after a few firings will not turn easily in the shell holder, but it binds up. This indicates to me that the rim is becoming thinner from repeated firming and it is getting wider. I do not have the same problem with the Hornaday or Remington brass that I have been using…

And yes, I have tried 3 different shell holders thinking I may have gotten one that was I bit small for the rim width. It is the same with all holders…

Anybody else have similar problems?

Always something isn’t there?

Thanks…BCB

[Firebricker]

I use starline in both those calibers and havent had any problems. Have you tried measuring the rim with a micrometer before and after ? FB

[machinisttx]

Are you certain that you aren't smashing the rim during resizing? As suggested, check with a mic.

[Edubya]

BCB, send those *- to me, I'll teach them a lesson or two!

Have you tried other brass? I have used thousands of *- and never had a single FTF. If you have the same problem with two guns, it might be in your loading operation or in the primers but I can not imagine it being in the brass.
EW

[405]

I use quite a bit in different calibers. The only problem I've ever had with Starline was a particular batch of 38 Special. It seemed to have under-diameter primer pockets. While the primer (I tried several brands) would seat, I noticed the seating was much heavier and I could never "feel" the primers bottom. Even tho I went full stroke with the hand priming tool I did get failure-to-fire a few times. I'm convinced the tight pockets were the culprit. I got a simple primer pocket reamer.... problem solved. Can now "feel" the pimers bottom out in the reamed pockets.

[Green Frog]

I use StarLine brass as the parent brass for my .32-357 bench gun. The only problems I have ever had with it came from trying to size it down too fast (grease dimple) and serious overload (longitudinal splits.)

I did a product review for the ASSRA Journal on the .38-55 when it came out and was very impressed with its quality and consistent dimensions.

Maybe you would consider my uses of it too small a sample, but until I have some negative experience with it personally, I have to say I love the stuff! :)

Froggie

[cajun shooter]

From your description of your loading process, am I to understand that you seat and crimp at the same stage. If so then try them as two separate stages. You also talked about using different shell holders to check width problems. What about the thickness of the brass? I use nothing but Starline brass for many years now and have never had a FTF because of the brass. I have a couple of thousand of the 45Colt and 44 Mag and no problems. This is not to say that they can't make a mistake but I have never had one.

[BCB]

Well, I measured some of the Starline brass and some of the Hornaday bras…

All measurements were done with a Sterrett caliper and micrometer. Accuracy is to the 10000th (But I doubt I can hold everything that steady!)…

The rim width at several locations on the rim is between 0.5109” and 0.5131” on the Starline brass. That indicates that one diameter of the rim is too wide. The rim thickness is between 0.055” and 0.059”. Six hundredths of an inch is listed in all reloading manuals…

The Hornaday brass had rim diameters of 0.5083” to 0.5102” which is less than the .0512” listed in manuals…

It becomes clear as to why the Starline brass won’t spin easily in the shell holder. It has nothing to do with seating and crimping in one step. I hold the shell holder in my hand and insert the brass and attempt to spin it. The Starline hangs up during the rotation—sometimes to the point were force is required to make it continue to spin in the shell holder. The Hornaday brass turns in the shell holders like in is mounted on ball bearings…

Now here is the sticker (no pun intended!) The 44 Magnum brass that I have that is Starline does the same thing. I am not shooing maximum loads, but they are headed in that direction. Yet the Hornaday brass doesn’t seem to have this problem…

I wonder if much use of the Lee Auto Prime with the Starline brass could be putting some type of a ridge or some other deformation on the rims. I can see some disturbance of the brass on the rim, but I would think the shell holders would have enough “slop” to not be affected by such minor marks…

Maybe the Starline brass is softer and is actually getting a wider rim with continual firings. It doesn’t have the aforementioned problem when it is new…

It sure is annoying when it try to seat the boolit a bit, turn the case, seat a bit more and finally finish seating the boolit…

So there it is. Don’t want to blame the Starline brass, but I don’t seem to have this problem with other name brass…

BCB

[rob45]

If you truly feel that the brass itself is causing the problem, contact Starline and discuss the issue with them. Tell them everything you have told us, and see if they can help discover the problem and offer a solution.

I use Starline exclusively for all of my straight-walled cartridges, and have never had the problem you describe; however, any company, no matter how reputable, can let something inadvertently slip through. My guess is that if the brass is determined to be at fault, Starline will make good on it, but then again I have no experience in dealing with such problems.

[hiram1]

starline is a good good comp to do biss with for sure

[W.R.Buchanan]

+1 on what Rob said. I'd call them and I bet they would happily replace what you have with new perfect stuff.

Those cases are made in a machine shop. Sometimes things don't happen right in a machine shop. Do it everyday.

However of all of the outfits out there making brass I would think Starline would be the first to make it right with no hassles whatsoever.

I just bought 500 .44 Spec cases from them last month and they have been loading perfectly however I don't to the rotational thing cuz my bullets seem to go in strait enough.

I do do what you are talking about with .308 loads. Been doing it for a long time on bottle neck rifle cases. cuts down on bullet ruinout if you rotate while you seat.

Randy.

[BCB]

Several have suggested contacting them and I did, some time ago when I first started this thread...

The reply, "I looks like you fired them in a firearm with an extractor that put marks on the inside side of the rim". That is not the exact quote but it is close...

I also indicated that I didn't have that problem with the Hornady brass...

They indicated that they made much of Hornady brass...

Well, all and good...

BUT, the brass was shot in a handgun and the last time I looked, it doesn't have an extractor that grabs the rim...

'Nuff said about Starline...

Thanks for the replies...

BCB

[Chicken Thief]

Several have suggested contacting them and I did, some time ago when I first started this thread...

The reply, "I looks like you fired them in a firearm with an extractor that put marks on the inside side of the rim". That is not the exact quote but it is close...

I also indicated that I didn't have that problem with the Hornady brass...

They indicated that they made much of Hornady brass...

Well, all and good...

BUT, the brass was shot in a handgun and the last time I looked, it doesn't have an extractor that grabs the rim...

'Nuff said about Starline...

Thanks for the replies...

BCB

Huh?
How does a pistol reload without touching the rim?
How does a revolver eject spent cases without touching the rim?

Not trying to be a smarta$$ but i'm at a loss as to your logic!

[BCB]

Well, they are fired in a Blackhawk and a Blackhawk has an ejector rod...

It touches the inside of the case...

'Least mine does...

The marks on the rim were on the side facing the front of the case...

Actually the rims became somewhat egg-shaped and that is what didn't allow them to go into the shell holder easily...

Starline did not make it right. I have shot thousands of pieces of brass and never had this problem...

BCB

[Tom W.]

Are you using Redding shellholders?? Just a thought....Some of those are a bit tight.

[sliphammer]

I've used a lot of *__ brass and found it to be as good as the big name makers. I did have one problem with some 45 LC but I finally figured out it was something that I'd caused. I was hand seating the primers, with an RCBS tool, but I was using the wrong shellholder. It was similar enough to allow the case to slide in but it was a loose fit, not a tight fit. Every time I seated a primer I was also dimpling the case rim. Those cases simply do not want to slide into any shellholder with any type of ease. Consequently, I have to be careful when seating primers in those cases as some don't want to hit the bottom.

[BCB]

I've used a lot of *__ brass and found it to be as good as the big name makers. I did have one problem with some 45 LC but I finally figured out it was something that I'd caused. I was hand seating the primers, with an RCBS tool, but I was using the wrong shellholder. It was similar enough to allow the case to slide in but it was a loose fit, not a tight fit. Every time I seated a primer I was also dimpling the case rim. Those cases simply do not want to slide into any shellholder with any type of ease. Consequently, I have to be careful when seating primers in those cases as some don't want to hit the bottom.

I have given that some thought with my cases as I get the same type of marks as you do...

I had considered that this could be the problem, except that I use several different shell holders made for 45 Colt case and some work sometimes and others work sometimes--strange...

My complaint to Starline was that the rims on some had become egg-shaped and that is one of the reasons they wouldn't slip into the shell holders...

It remains a mystery. Could just be that several things all compounded have caused my problems with some of the brass, but not all of it...

Dang reloading...

BCB

[firebrick43]

One comment on you calipers, I have seen others make an assumption that because they can read to .0001 they are that accurate. No set of calipers do that. Starret did that for some funny reason a couple of years ago. Hell, starret micrometer ratchet thimbles are hard enough to get truly repeatable results across several guys to the .0001"

As to starline, I have used them for quite some time know +10 years and have had 1 bad shell out of thousands (bad scratch from factory?). Wish I could say the same about Winchester,remington, pmc, or federal brass.

[BCB]

One comment on you calipers, I have seen others make an assumption that because they can read to .0001 they are that accurate. No set of calipers do that. Starret did that for some funny reason a couple of years ago. Hell, starret micrometer ratchet thimbles are hard enough to get truly repeatable results across several guys to the .0001"


I agree with that, but I would adjust the micrometer to just touch the rim at the short diameter part and then I would rotate the case. The rim would stop turning, without forcing it, and that would be the long point of the egg shape...

I really wasn't concerned with the actual diameter, but just that it was egg shaped...

What puzzles me is that the entire batch that I purchased didn't get difficult to get in shell holders...

That is why I think I must have gotten a few pieces of bad brass...

When the rep at Starline said it appear I had a extractor situation, that is where I sort of lost confidence in their product...

As previously mentioned, the cases were shot from a Blackhawk..

Oh well...

BCB

[firebrick43]

Once I had some factory pmc 45 colt cowboy loads that one to two shells out of every box cracked vertically on the first shot. Contacted pmc and they stated that they had an issue with heat treatment in that batch and some were not annealed? enough I'm guessing and were brittle. They did send me 4 boxes of ammo after I sent them 4 cracked shells.

So the brass could be soft if maybe they annealed most of the case on some? I believed that all case manufactures brass is hardened by work hardening in the stamping/forming process and from what little I know there are torches that anneal the case mouths in the process and are dunked in water to keep the case head from annealing. Not knowing what starlines process exactly is maybe somehow a few cases got caught up and never were dunked quickly so the head was annealed?

The marks on the front of the rim have to come from somewhere. Since you are firing a single action and assuming your blackhawks chamber mouths have no flaws I am going to guess that you are sizing with carbide dies and using no lubrication in the process?

While lube is techinically requires it makes the process much easier. With my 45 colt cases it was very physically demanding to size cases without lube. If you have slightly soft heads/rims the marks/deformation would come from withdrawing the shell from the resizing die. Most shell holders of all manufactures can be a little roughly machined and have a burr/mark that leaves damage in the softer cases with lots of force. Typically on the up stroke the shell is being pushed across the hole head not just the rim like on the down stroke. On single stage presses I like hornady unique and one shot lube on my progressive.

If you are lubing I am at a loss