Size or not to size, that is the question...

[1bluehorse]

Hello fellas, new member on this forum. Read somewhere recently, maybe here, about cast bullets possibly being swaged when seated. I know bullet to bore fit is very important. Measured some fired 45 colt cases fired from my rugers and they measured 451. After sizing they measured 444. Lee dies. I've reamed the cylinders on my rugers to 4525 and the bore slugged 451 after firelapping. I cast 255 gr. rnfp from ww in a Lee 6 holer, size to 452 on a star sizer. These bullets can be seated in the unsized cases with your fingers. I loaded 5 and put on a very firm crimp. They all chambered fine in both ruger revolvers and a Puma 92. Fired them from one of the revolvers, none jumped the crimp, all went bang, all hit the target. Not enough of a test to prove to me whether more accurate than a bullet seated in a sized case or not. Would appreciate your opinions or experiences and recommendations if any. Thanks.

[RayinNH]

1bluehorse, if it were me I would think that if you can seat the boolits by finger pressure that's too loose. I'd back out the sizing die so that you only partially size the cases, maybe 1/4-3/8 inches. In essence the case would look slightly like a mild bottle neck case. Bell the cases in the normal fashion, then seat boolit...Ray

[MtGun44]

The interference fit is probably just fine. Seat some of your boolits into sized cases
after measuring them to be sure of the starting diam. Then pull the bullets (inertia type
puller is fine) before you crimp them and see if the diam is changed by seating. If not
significantly, then you are fine. If they are sized down you can go to harder alloy or get
a larger expander button/funnel.

Bill

[243winxb]

After sizing they measured 444. A .4505" expander should open the inside of the case mouth/neck to the correct diameter after sizing.
These bullets can be seated in the unsized cases with your fingers. This only works with light loads and fast powder. The crimp is not enough to keep the bullet from jumping forward out of the case and jaming the rotation of the cylinder in a revolver with maximum loads. Powder like W296 must have a high bullet pull, be held tightly by the brass, so the powder burns correctly. Plus a loose fitting bullet in a lever action could get pushed back into the case when it hits a feed ram.

[mooman76]

I had to read it a couple times to figure out where you were trying to go. I believe you are thinking of not sizing the cases. Like RayinNH said I'd at least partially size the cases. They may fit fine after a firing but after a couple they will probubly fit kind of tight unless you are firing really light loads.

[StarMetal]

The way the cartridge was intended to be was a tight bullet fit. Some with a tight bullet fit and a crimp. There are only special specific applications where cases aren't sized and bullets slip easily into the cases. If this weren't true why would sizing dies be make like they are? If sizing dies that don't size rifle cases size the necks.
Size your cases and load accordingly.

Joe

[TAWILDCATT]

original loads did not size cases.the loading tools only decaped, the loads were black powder and the bullet seated on the powder.now you really should size at least to the base of the bullet.thats what I do.and I roll crimp.they dont setback with a good roll crimp.

[StarMetal]

Black powder is totally an all different situation then smokeless. Pressure is what makes smokeless work so well. No so important to BP. To use the comparison for the poster here is incorrect in my opinion.

Joe

[1bluehorse]

In answer to one of the replys, I was thinking that IF the resized cases were indeed "swaging" the bullet to a smaller than bore diameter that accuracy would be impaired, so by not resizing possibly eliminate the problem, if existed. I agree with everyones opinion that resizing and a firm crimp is the best and safest route, and if I had used my head and thought of measuring a pulled bullet like was suggested by MTGUN44 this would have been a non-issue. After sizing and loading the bullet, and pulling it, it measured 452. Sooooo... I'm thinking you all are right, resize.....no difference. Now I'm going to have to come up with a different reason for my lousy groups..surely it can't be me...Thanks for your responses, much appreciated.

[StarMetal]

To tell you the truth I don't think there is a 45 Colt case out there that is hard and stout enough at the mouth to resize a cast bullet, as long as it's not pure lead. Also belling the case mouth helps shoehorn the bullet into the case.

Joe

[Bret4207]

In answer to one of the replys, I was thinking that IF the resized cases were indeed "swaging" the bullet to a smaller than bore diameter that accuracy would be impaired, so by not resizing possibly eliminate the problem, if existed. I agree with everyones opinion that resizing and a firm crimp is the best and safest route, and if I had used my head and thought of measuring a pulled bullet like was suggested by MTGUN44 this would have been a non-issue. After sizing and loading the bullet, and pulling it, it measured 452. Sooooo... I'm thinking you all are right, resize.....no difference. Now I'm going to have to come up with a different reason for my lousy groups..surely it can't be me...Thanks for your responses, much appreciated.

If you end up with .444 boolits after seating then you don;t have a case issue, you have a seater issue. Either it's made wrong or you've got it adjusted wrong. There should be ZERO damage from the seater to the boolit. The only change should be from the crimp if any.

[Edubya]

BTW 1bluehorse, WELCOME to the forum. Your posts paint you as an intelligent and a non-assuming person.
You've received some of the best information in the previous posts, so I just wanted to welcome you aboard.
EW

[1bluehorse]

Thanks for the welcome, I agree on the quality of information received here, and might I add you are obviously a good judge of character...LOL..