Help needed with .454Casull mold...

[Finn45]

I have a friend here (Internet friend, but they are great aren't they), who owns a long barreled (9½") Ruger in .454Casull. Now he's planning to buy Ruger Alaskan (2½") in the same caliber. He's been casting for it using some 300 grain Lee gc mold, but it drops undersized boolits he says, .452" and they go easily through the cylinder also unsized and are too small for the groove diameter as well. He has .454 sizing die (doesn't size that Lee boolit at all) and now he's planning to get a iron mold which is hopefully good and tried style for this kind of revolver. He prefers gas checks. Unfortunately he's not able to (he says) do English at all, so I'm asking some suggestions here for him.

I can help him to get the mold, but I don't know anything about revolvers and mold designs for them... Present Lyman styles would be easy for me to get right now and I believe RCBS/Saeco won't present a problem either. Lyman 452651 seems to be only mouse click away, any good? Suggestions please?

[Bass Ackward]

Unfortunately he's not able to (he says) do English at all, so I'm asking some suggestions here for him.


Reijo,

Then we have a real problem. I am very Bi-lingual speaking American, Australian, English, and some Canadian, but I can't help you with the mold. :grin:

Why don't you try beagling the other one a little too?

[44man]

Bass, I knew you were talented, but speaking all those languages sure gives you new respect!

[chunkum]

I'm surprised that the 0.452 diameter is too small for the cylinder throats. I have two FA .454s and both of them like that diameter bullet, though if the alloy "rebounds" any at all as linotype can do and it goes to 0.4525, then it has to go back through a 0.451 sizer in order to get it to load and shoot properly.

I think there are three options. One is to try gas checking the bullets in a .452 die and shoot a few and see how they perform. They may surprise him. Two is, as was suggested, to "beagle" the mould, trying for oversized bullets. Or, three, he could "lapp the mould" just a little to get slightly larger bullets. It would seem to be easier and more economical to buy a new sizing die than a new mould.

The Lyman 452651 is a good bullet though you won't be certain it drops them at exactly 0.452 til you get it, or, at least, it's been my experience that the advertised diameter isn't necessarily what you'll get. I like the LeeC452-300-RF a little better because it has a larger meplat. Bullets from my Lee mould drop at 0.455", but again, this can be a variable, and he'll still need the correct sizing die.
Best Regards,
Chunkum

[Bucks Owin]

I'm surprised that the 0.452 diameter is too small for the cylinder throats. I have two FA .454s and both of them like that diameter bullet, though if the alloy "rebounds" any at all as linotype can do and it goes to 0.4525, then it has to go back through a 0.451 sizer in order to get it to load and shoot properly.

Best Regards,
Chunkum

Ah ha! I wondered if certain alloys had a little "spring" to them. When I put a .360 cast bullet made from 50/50 WW and lino through a .357" sizer it comes out measuring .358".

So that's "rebound" huh?

Dennis

[chunkum]

Dennis,
That's the way Mr Bob Baker explained it to me when he was helping me start loading for the .454 Casull back in the mid 80s. I thought for a bit that my micrometers had gone south on me but not so. That's my experience, anyway.
c.

[454PB]

I have both of the moulds mentioned for my .45 Colt and .454's. I have no diameter problems, both moulds drop boolits over .452", and considerably over using WW and linotype. Has your friend tried uping the antimony to get a larger boolit?

My Lyman 452651 does cast about .001" larger than the Lee, but his results may vary.

I'm surprised to hear that his Ruger has oversize throats, my SRH has .4525" throats and a .4515" bore.

[Finn45]

Thanks much, this is good info. Now I managed to convince him to get his Ruger slugged asap. His Lee is mentioned C452-300-RF, but in dual cavity form. He found out that it casts clearly out of round boolits, so in addition to possibly too tight Lee sizer it very well could be that Ruger is on specs... Actually he is coming down from higher antimony alloy now, he is getting much better results, maybe because softer boolit acts better than hard when it's undersized and out of round. Maybe. He has Lee 6-cavity molds for .44 and .357 (round and true), so depending of the slugging results he might be considering new Lee 300 in 6-cavity. And that Lyman is still one option. John so you are very close to lulti mingual person :). Thanks for the comments.

[Finn45]

Oh my, my friend slugged the throats and the barrel... First using 10/90 lino/WW, maybe aged and hardened some. Result was .4515" barrel and .456" throats! Slugs driven though the cylinder and barrel here. I explained some of the pure lead characteristics and harder alloy characteristics and asked to verify the measuring. He found that he had lead conicals for his soot thrower so he hammered them some to fill the throats and slugged again with them...; .455" throats and this time .4527" barrel. Okay, possible errors here, but for me those throats seem to be way out of specs if they are like that or no?

[Bass Ackward]

Oh my, my friend slugged the throats and the barrel... First using 10/90 lino/WW, maybe aged and hardened some. Result was .4515" barrel and .456" throats! Slugs driven though the cylinder and barrel here. I explained some of the pure lead characteristics and harder alloy characteristics and asked to verify the measuring. He found that he had lead conicals for his soot thrower so he hammered them some to fill the throats and slugged again with them...; .455" throats and this time .4527" barrel. Okay, possible errors here, but for me those throats seem to be way out of specs if they are like that or no?


Reijo,

No. Not really. More depends on which set of dimensions is actually correct.

I have had worse dimensions that shot lead very well. The only real disadvantage to large throats is that you will probably need big bullets for a soft mix and closer to bore diameter if he wants to go harder. This is not gospel, but my experience with several guns. That causes a problem because you will need a large cavity mold so it molds large enough bullets with a soft mix if that is necessary. And you will need a smaller cavity mold if you need to alloy harder bullets.

Harder bullets can be made in the same mold as long as sizing several .000 doesn't remove lube carrying capability or distort the base. So a good Keith design with it's DEEP grease groove with a GC may be a good design choice for his first attempts so as not to get discouraged. And of coarse he will need a few sizers so that he can make the right size from the right hardness.

[Finn45]

Thanks John. Dimensions are verified now; throats .455". Barrel .4527", slug driven in about .8" from the back end of the barrel; and .4523", slug driven in about .8" from the muzzle. So, in my thinking the barrel is not all that bad and throats are bigger than that so... Maybe too big, but manageable I think. What I'm wondering is Ruger's variation with these things, as mentioned a lot smaller diameters seem to be common. This guy is getting very low results when compared to QL estimations, maybe this is one of the reasons. Maybe progressive N110 is another reason. Thanks again.

[db2]

Finn45,
I have a Ruger SRH and the throats on mine measure out .4542-.4544 using an air gage from work. I do not know what the barrel measures. 3 years ago I had Dan from Mountain Molds make me a mold to fit my throats. Very accuate in my pistol. I agree with Bass try Beagling.
db2

[Finn45]

Mold form Dan is good option thanks for the reminder. I'll see what my friend decides. He has also other revolvers in .44Mag, .357Mag and 7.62Nagant, so hands full of testing and decisions with all of them to make. I also sent him few .30 caliber slugs to try subsonic loads with his suppressed .308Win TRG. Anyway few of the latest comments that I heard was something like there seem to be really some affection what lube and calibration is used... :)