Universal as a substitute

[robertbank]

Looking at my burn rate chart Universal is listed as slightly slower than Unique. I was wondering if any of you have tried it in 9MM. In particular using 147 gr boolits? I can get Universal through a wholesaler but not Unique. I have never used this powder so any help would be appreciated. How does it flow through your powder measure?

Take Care

Bob

[yondering]

I don't load 9mm, but can tell you that you are on the right track. Universal is not quite as flexible as Unique, but does work well for a lot of the same loads. It's good stuff and worth trying. It is my favorite for 230gr loads in the 45 ACP.

[robertbank]

Good to hear. Does it meter well? Unique can be a bear to get set in a Dillon powder measure.

Take Care

Bob

[targetshootr]

Universal is all I use anymore. It meters fine in my 650, you can use the same loads as Unique and your guns won't feel greasy when you're done shooting.

[littlejack]

Bob:
I have switched to the Universal over Unique. I guess i've been using the Universal for about 3-4 years now. I had used the Unique for 30 years. The Universal does burn cleaner and it meters a lot better. I have found though, that I get a little more velocity with my light .41 magnum loads as compared to Unique, using the same powder charge and bullet. I have also used it for some heavy loads in my 45 acp. It does well there also.
Try the Universal, I think you will like it.
Jack

[robertbank]

Thanks guys you boys saved me some money.

Take Care

Bob

[Jack Stanley]

Bob , when setting your powder measure on the Dillon , get it close and then set your scale to weigh ten throws at once . If your charge is four point six , set the scale for forty-six grains . Then do your final adjustment on the measure . That has work well for me since I got my Dillon in the eighties .

I went to using Clays when Unique went over a hundred bucks for eight pounds . Now that it's down a little at my supplier , I laid in a small stash of Unique again . I like the results of both of them .

Jack

[targetshootr]

Be sure not to use the word 'Clays' when ordering. I learned that one the hard way.

[Catshooter]

Yes, "Clays" and "Universal Clays" are not the same thing. Universal is a bit faster than Unique. 10%? More forgiving in the larger calibers, be a little careful in the small ones.

UC is all I've ever loaded in the 9 and it works well.


Cat

[StarMetal]

You can't cross Universal and Unique over. Universal is a tad hotter. Example: I load a 100 gr bullet for my 30 Luger. I use 4.0 grains of Unique for my plinking load. When I switched to Universal I had to drop to 3.4 to 3.6 grains to get the same velocity and "feel" of the 4.0 Unique. Universal in not as accurate in my 45 Colt load. My normal load for that is 255 grains RCBS SWC and 9.0 grains of
of Unique. If I use 9.0 grains of Universal it's hotter and accuracy not as good. If I drop it some, it's better, but accuracy still not as good. I talked to Mike at Hodgdon and he said they noticed that in the 45 Colt too. In the 45 acp I don't notice much of a problem of any sort. It's also seems to do well in my 9mm loads.

Joe

[targetshootr]

It sounds like they need to swap places on the burn rate chart.

[felix]

It is function of ignition, which obviously changes per case, per bore. The charts all assume the same case, same bore, something like they call a "closed bomb". ... felix

[mooman76]

Universal is very similar to Unique. You can't do an identical swap but if you compare data of unique vs Universal they are very close and you can compare enough to give you a good starting point. I would just drop the starting point down a hair and work up as usual. I have heard some say they use the same data beings they are almost the same and you have to start low and work up anyway.

[Ricochet]

In the closed bomb test they fill the space in the "bomb" with powder to a standard fill level, around 40% of the volume I think, and ignite it with an electrically heated wire. They measure the pressure curve vs. time, and also the temperature rise. The chamber doesn't expand, so the powder's burning under constant volume conditions. It's useful comparison data, but it's rather different from the burning conditions in a cartridge so different powders don't always maintain their relative burning rates from one load to another.

[wiljen]

has anyone tried universal in reduced rifle loads? Just wondering if its similarities to unique carry over into being good for that too or if it is only a replacement in small volume (ie pistol) cases.

[Jack Stanley]

I do use the full name andn/or number of a powder when ordering it and when loading in the shop I'll write "universal Clays" on the loading data . I do have one of the "other" clays but it gets used only for "sporting clays ammo"

wiljen , I've used Universal Clays in a 30-06 in charges from seven point five to eleven point two . Bullets from the lyman 311466 to the NEI version of the 311284 ( that weighs about two-thirty or so ) Primers are always Winchester and cases are commercial W-W , FC and REM . The results are pretty consistant changing cases , accuracy is good and range time is fun . I could load them heavier but they do what I want up close .

Jack

[That'll Do]

Universal is all I use anymore. It meters fine in my 650, you can use the same loads as Unique and your guns won't feel greasy when you're done shooting.


Good to hear. Does it meter well? Unique can be a bear to get set in a Dillon powder measure.

Take Care

Bob

Universal meters very well in my experience. Whereas Unique can vary as much as .3 grains in my RCBS Competition powder measure, Universal only varies by .1 grain, if at all.

I use Universal and Unique in my mid-range 357 Magnum loads. Overall, I'm happy with the results. Accuracy has been comparable between the two powders, with Unique being slightly more accurate (that's not cold hard fact, just my opinion).

I've also noticed that I cannot do a grain for grain substitution between the two powders. For one of my target rounds, I load 6.0gr of Unique with a 158gr LSWC and a regular SP primer. My Universal version is 5.5gr with a 158gr LSWC and a regular SP primer. So there is a difference in burn rates.

Give Universal a try–it does live up to its name (for the most part).

[Catshooter]

I have used UC in the 7.62x54r under the Fat 30 and in my Handi rifle in .45-70. Both have worked well, allthough my use so far has been limited. In the .45-70 I chroned three rounds of 14 grains under the 365 grain group buy boolit and all three read 1202 fps. I was pleased!


Cat

[robertbank]

For those of you who have used Universal in the 9MM, have you worked a load up to meet the power factor of 125 for IDPA shooting? I am looking for loads that run a 125 gr lead boolit at around 1,000 fps and a 137 gr lead boolit around 850 fps. From the above comments it appears as though Universal is very consistent so finding a combo should not be that difficult.

Take Care

Bob

[Catshooter]

Should be easy Bob. I was pushing my 115 grain JHPs to 1350 out of my Glock 19.


Cat

[robertbank]

Well this mornig I decided to weigh the boolits. Using straight WW alloy the boolits are dropping out at 154 grains! This from a mould that should be 147 grains. Well there are benefits. I can load to an even lower velocity to meet 125 power factor which should equate to lower felt recoil. On the otherhand 7 grains is quite a bit to be out from spec. Should I contact Lyman or live with it? I had intenended to have a friend remove the bevel base from the boolit but I would then be looking at a boolit of around 160 grains out of a 8MM.

Take Care

Bob

[felix]

Live with it, Bob. Adding more tin will reduce the weight, and that would make the boolits tougher anyway. However, shoot what you have and see the results first before screwing around with lead alterations. Heavy boolits shoot further, anyway, like you know. ... felix

[robertbank]

HI Felix

Yes I will work with it. One benefit will be that I can load lighter and get the same power factor. I'll post my loads once I have them. Should make for some interesting testing.

Take Care

Bob

[felix]

Nothing new on the home front, Bob. ... felix

[robertbank]

Well it turns out my powder supplier is out of Universal so I have decided to load using 231. 2.7 gr under my 154 gr boolit makes power factor out of my guns and is accurate to boot. I plan on a trip south later this month and will pick up some Unique and Universal while I am down in the Lower Mainland.

Take Care

Bob

[Base534]

I just started using Universal and like it a lot. I use 3.9- 4.0 grs with a 125 cast boolit and im shooting some good groups. I recently got a Lee perfect powder measure from midway and it meters so-so. The measure gets a little finicky at times and i am using it unmounted in my hands and going over a loading block with it. No real discrepancys with the charges so far and i weigh like every 15th case. I normally use my RCBS uniflow but got tired of holding the block under it and going back and forth and the price was right on the Lee so i took a shot.
I normally use w-231 but i like Universal better. Also loaded some 38/357,s with it and ir performed well on them also. And even loaded bout a 100 45 Colts and will see how they turned out. Im definetly looking for an 8 lb jug of the stuff.