Sheet wax gas checks?

[oscarflytyer]

One current soft wax gas check product (if available?!?) is CF Ventures wax wads/checks. They sound like dental wax sheets. Recently saw some postings on sheet wax for use as gas checks as well.

I recall years ago that there was a recommendation for using the sheets of pink dental wax. I found it on the net in soft, medium and hard wax.

Has anyone ever used the dental wax sheets as gas checks? If so, how did they work? With the high cost of conventional gas checks, this looks like a very cheap alternative if it works. Thoughts?

[stubshaft]

They were made out of boolit loob. Cabine tree used to make an extruder so that you could load loob in it and extrude a ribbon. After that you just pressed the case against the ribbon and cut/punched the check out.

Never tried dental wax though.

[joel0407]

I heard of pouring melted wax on equally as hot, but not boiling water. The wax will be perfectly even thickness across the water. Once cool cut around the edge and use for soft gas check material.

I dont have a receipe but I will be giving it a go.

[singleshot1]

Hi, yes I have used them in a 6.5 Swede. An Old West mold, plain base, with a hard wax check. I got the sheet wax from a fellow in Pa. a number of years ago. It looks like the dental wax mentioned in a post above. It worked fine, although not a high velocity load. Just make sure not to seat the wax wad below the neck! Dave:coffeecom

[35remington]

You can't ask too much of wax wads. While they'll improve many loads, especially those on the velocity threshold of plainbase bullets, it's not possible to completely get away from gascheck use with the substitution of a wax wad.

The wax wads don't measure up to the benefits a gascheck provides.

[windrider919]

Himmm....

No one seems to have much good to say about using wax instead of checks. I however did have and continue to have a good experience.

I started shooting wax wads in my Ruger Old Army cap n ball revolver to supposedly keep the fouling soft and prevent gang fire. Much to my surprise the accuracy shooting conical ball increased.

So I tried in my 45-70 and thought it did not help much but did not hurt either although the rifle was easier to clean.

Then I moved up to .458 Winchester Mag to get the longer case and have a bolt action rifle. In load development I tried the wax wads (dental wax sheets, medium) because i was shooting both Paper Patch and cast GC, but un-checked, un-lubed bullets at faster than the 45-70. Faster as in 1800 to 2400FPS loads. The wax did not make much difference UNTIL I started stacking wads. I found that inserting a PE (polyethylene, cut with a punch from a milk jug) wad into the case mouth, THEN a wax wad till it was just below the opening, and then seating the bullet (which pushed the wads down but not TOO far. The wads MUST be touching the bullet or chamber ringing could occur, no air gap between wad and bullet base). Follow the rules for using fillers in load development

Accuracy was acceptable (less than 1 1/2" at 100yds) and cleaning was easy. NO leading with un-checked / un-lubed bullets.

So it works in a straight case but I suspect it would require very precise depth control in bottleneck cases. And since a lot of bullets protrude into the case if it is set for the correct rifling contact it would not work at all there.

[leadhead]

I remember using some kind of a red thin wax or plastic check about
20 years ago in a 44 mag. I used it for sillywet shooting, but I can't
remember if it really worked or not. Used under a plain base bullet.
I found some of it a couple years ago and the mice seemed to really
like it. It was chewed all to hell in the box. I guess it really didn't
work all that well.
Denny

[StarMetal]

Bite the bullet. Buy gas checks or make your own. If there was a magical replacement it would have been found by now.

Joe

[ammohead]

I used bullet lube but a bit softer than I normally make it. Just to be different I took a bunch of clothes dryer lint and added it to the mix to add fiber, kind of like you might find in a veg wad or at least that was the thinking at the time. Probably wouldn't do it again. I used a fired 405 win case to cut the wax after pouring it on the backside of a teflon cutting board. I first tried them without a wad and found that if they got even a bit hot the wax would weep into the powder and had misfires. Now I use cardboard from the back of a pad of paper then the wax wad (about .250" thick) then the boolit. This and 45 gr of 4895 makes a compressed load so there is no danger of air gaps anywhere.

I get 1900 fps and 1.250" groups at 50 yds with a relatively soft cast 350 gr plain base bullet and no leading from my 1895 jap repro Win. Wax wads may not be an improvement over gas checks on gas checked shanked boolits but they sure work good on plain base boolits.

ammohead

[oscarflytyer]

Himmm....

No one seems to have much good to say about using wax instead of checks. I however did have and continue to have a good experience.

I started shooting wax wads in my Ruger Old Army cap n ball revolver to supposedly keep the fouling soft and prevent gang fire. Much to my surprise the accuracy shooting conical ball increased.

So I tried in my 45-70 and thought it did not help much but did not hurt either although the rifle was easier to clean.

Then I moved up to .458 Winchester Mag to get the longer case and have a bolt action rifle. In load development I tried the wax wads (dental wax sheets, medium) because i was shooting both Paper Patch and cast GC, but un-checked, un-lubed bullets at faster than the 45-70. Faster as in 1800 to 2400FPS loads. The wax did not make much difference UNTIL I started stacking wads. I found that inserting a PE (polyethylene, cut with a punch from a milk jug) wad into the case mouth, THEN a wax wad till it was just below the opening, and then seating the bullet (which pushed the wads down but not TOO far. The wads MUST be touching the bullet or chamber ringing could occur, no air gap between wad and bullet base). Follow the rules for using fillers in load development

Accuracy was acceptable (less than 1 1/2" at 100yds) and cleaning was easy. NO leading with un-checked / un-lubed bullets.

So it works in a straight case but I suspect it would require very precise depth control in bottleneck cases. And since a lot of bullets protrude into the case if it is set for the correct rifling contact it would not work at all there.

Never loaded Lead in bottle necks - just straight cases such as 44 Spc/Mag and 45 LC. Think I am going to use it in the 44s to push them up a bit to hunt. Will use std loads for the slower stuff, but will try pushing WWs to faster than norm with the wax gas checks.

[DanM]

I used the CFVentures sheets (that looked just like dental wax) in 44mag with the plain base 240TL Lee SWC. Worked well along with normal LLA aplication. This was several years ago. I do remember that it worked well....

[mroliver77]

I styill have some of the sheets from CF Ventures. Garsh, what was his handle? Anyhow, I used them with commercial cast boolits that leaded like mad. It really helped to ease the leading.I have a .32 mold that drops .323 140gr boolits. I shoot them naked, no lube or check at 1000fps with a wax check under them in my Mauser. Not a new concept as BP shooters have done this forever. IIRC Gussy's ribbon maker is for that purpose.
Jay

[windrider919]

I think the key thing that makes it work for me is sandwiching the wax between the bullet and the PE wad. I believe it compresses the wax and keeps the seal pushed out to the sides so no gas can get past. I also found that using a PE wad behind my PP bullets gave an incremental increase in accuracy (Note: of course that is with folded tail, not twisted) because I got less fliers.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

try calling Rocky York in Boise, Idaho. He makes the wad extrusion pumps of CBA fame.

Rich

[Paladin]

I used the CFVentures sheets (that looked just like dental wax) in 44mag with the plain base 240TL Lee SWC. Worked well along with normal LLA aplication. This was several years ago. I do remember that it worked well....

The "Soft Gas Checks" sheet-wax is still available. Current price for a 5-lb.+ box of sheets is $50 ---PLUS postage (shipping normally recommended: Priority Mail Flat Rate).

A sample sheet and instructions can be had by sending a dollar to:

CFVentures
509 S Harvey Dr.
Bloomington
Indiana 47403-1715

---Oh yes, the Internet "handle:"

Paladin

[joel0407]

Do they come in packs less than 5lbs?

I'm keen to give them ago but I dont really want 5lbs.

[randyrat]

I bought some from:
Cliffs
PO Box 423
Cedar City, UT. 84721-0423

Product description= Venture Soft Gas Checks

These were red and semi hard. Just push your charged case against a sheet and seat your bullets.
I haven't played with them for a while almost forgot i had them, they were stashed away in a drawer.

WWW.Cliffsgunsmithing.com

[leadman]

The CF Ventures sheets I had seemed to have some graphite in them. I tried them many years ago when I was struggling with leading due to a very hard lube I was using at the time.

Can't remember if they worked or not. May have to try them again.

[JIMinPHX]

Bite the bullet. Buy gas checks or make your own. If there was a magical replacement it would have been found by now.

Joe

C'mon Joe,
Try to keep an open mind. If we all took that attitude, we'd all still believe that cast boolits can't be pushed above 1,000fps. The books all said that for decades. People here kept trying things & proved that wrong. There may be better type of gas checks out there too, just waiting to be found.

[joel0407]

C'mon Joe,
Try to keep an open mind. If we all took that attitude, we'd all still believe that cast boolits can't be pushed above 1,000fps. The books all said that for decades. People here kept trying things & proved that wrong. There may be better type of gas checks out there too, just waiting to be found.

+1

I'm hoping these will get me over straight PB but I'm not expecting to get GC velocity.

I'm currently at 1450 with no leading. Maybe with wax GC, I might get 1550 or even 1600.

[35remington]

As I said......

Temper your expectations with wax wads. If there's indeed a substitute for the gas check, the wax wad isn't it, or they would be used in demanding applications with better success.

There's no harm in trying them, and I have myself, but to expect that they'll turn a plainbase bullet into a substitute for a gaschecked one in most applications is expecting a bit much.

I'm sure they've been trying alternatives for gaschecks since gaschecks became popular, which is near 100 years now. Haven't replaced it yet. That won't keep people from trying, and good for them, but we need to be careful about "overselling" wax wads. To expect that they'll be able to replace the gascheck ain't gonna happen.

I make my own wax wads and they help in many instances, but a substitute for a gascheck they are not.

[joel0407]

I'm buying some plastic sabots to shoot "000" shot (0.360" round ball) out of my 45/70 and have had it suggested that I might have better success if I can seal of the sabot better in the barrel. I am hoping wax wads might help.

Subsonic rabbit rounds. Just for fun.