Gut feelings on primer and component shortage

[BSkerj]

I have posted this question on a couple other reloading forums.. What are your gut feelings of about the availibity of primers in the future? Right now I have 6k of each that I use on hand, but I have been replacing them as I reload. Here in Idaho they are becoming more available but I think that this is due to hunting season now going on. Do you think they will dry up again after the first of the year or become more available? They say go with your gut feelings...just wondering what direction do you think they will go.

[BoolitBill]

Right now if our President were to mention anything about gun control the shelves woud empty within two hours. Better to buy now so you can still shoot later.

[snowwolfe]

The hoarders are running out of money and space. I am seeing powder and primers in most gun shops. Local gun shop had damn near fully stocked shelves with powder yeterday.

Have always keep about 30-40 pounds of powder on hand and an assortment of primers to insure everything is from the same lot. This also helps you to weather the shortage storms.

Remember about 15 years ago the similar primer scare? Bet ya some guys are still using primers from those years. How about the toilet paper scare? Then the coffee shortage. It is always one thing or another caused by a misinformed public. 10 months ago you couldnt find an AR at any price, now they are everywhere and the prices have fallen.

[Bullshop]

Snowwolf
What store was that? I need to get to F.B. and get some. Last time I was at the Sportsmans supply there the cupboard was bear.

[jack19512]

The shortage hasn't improved any in my area yet.

[Lead Fred]

If Obama signs the Coppenhagen treaty, and or the senate redifies either that treaty OR the global disarmament treaty which is there now.

There wont be any reloading being done any more.

December 19th, Merry Christmas

and there will be no peace on earth, not good will towards man

[Buckshot]

...........A lot of folks are buying now who didn't get in at the beginning of the 'Mad Dash", and weren't going to pay outrageous prices. It's their time now. Also time for those who have re-thunk their previous inventory levels and decided to be a bit fatter.

Gun folks still have that deer in the headlights look so far as the messiah is concerned, and let him make an anti-gun noise and as BoolitBill suggested, it'd be a mad rush all over again I'd bet.

.............Buckshot

[stephen perry]

I know 2 guys that will not stop buying basics of reloading and shooting. Put the 2 guys together they have more now than Bruno, the major supplier of components in the SW. And they have standing orders of a good amount that Bruno and others receive incoming. They will not stop. Both have a dozen or March scopes salted away. They very seldom sell. I shoot with both of them. What sets them apart from the rest of us is they buy when the orders come in no lack of resources.

There is no good solution for securing your reloading future. But I do know this there are collectively more primers and powder dumped in dumprters as our shooting Buds pass than anyone can horde.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR :brokenima

[Landric]

I was in a gun shop today, the most local to me that actually sells handloading supplies (~ 30 miles away, and there are 3 gun stores in my town, none of which have much, if anything, related to handloading). They had a reasonable stock of most kinds of primers, the only real absentee was small pistol. They had Federal and CCI, I didn't see any other brands. They were priced at $33/1000, which would have been high last year, but is pretty reasonable this year.

They had 500 Federal SP primers left, so I picked them up, plus 1000 Federal Small Rifle. One thing I will say for this primer shortage, its allowed me to do a lot of experimentation with different primers and their effect on my handloads. I actually have plenty of small rifle for .223, which is the only cartridge I load that uses small rifle, but I wanted to give the Federal SRs a try in my handgun loads. I've used Wolf SRM primers in various handgun loads with mostly satisfactory results, but the Wolf SRM is a hard primer, and I got the occasional light strike when using them in handguns. Federal primers, being the softest available, should do much better in handguns, but of course that means more load work up. No problem there though, its what I enjoy most about handloading.

When supply is good, I like to use the following:

Federal SP
Winchester SP Magnum
Winchester LP
Wolf .223 (SRM)
Federal LR

However, given the current situation, I take what I can get and work with it.

[1hole]

"They say go with your gut feelings...just wondering what direction do you think they will go. "

My guts have nothing to base a feeling on. The current shortage is due to a frantic-panic amongst ourselves, nothing else. Who can even guess how long that will last?

[largom]

It's impossible to predict what the nuts in DC will attempt to due with our guns in the future. I have a very good stock of primers and powder, however if I run across a GOOD deal on either I buy them. This maintains my stock but I do not and will not pay the highly inflated prices some are charging. Was at an auction last weekend and picked up a full/unopened can of IMR 3031 for $10.00 Did'nt need it but the price was right.

Larry

[jonk]

No primers around here. I got 8000 from wideners recently and ended my nervousness. I now have about 20,000 on the shelf and feel pretty good for now.

But I too know guys who simply won't quit. I know one guy who, since Obama took office, has bought over 500,000 primers. At any price, so long as he could buy at least 5000 at a time. He's a lawyer with a 200,000 plus a year job so it's nothing to him.

I just don't see it ending. All those backordrers. They are being filled but more orders are added to it. It will NOT end until manufacturers add to production capacity..

[sheepdog]

I been getting them at Cabala's at the counter, sell me a whole box worth at a time. $32 for 1000 Federal large pistol. Not great but in these times not bad.

[dsmjon]

My gut feeling is that Obama SAID (paraphrasing) " I will not go after your guns..." He never said a damn thing about controlling the supply of ammunition or components. THAT is CHANGE most folks never would think about considering.. baa baa blind sheep.

[Bullshop]

I just put in an order with CCI for 110,000 standard primers of the 4 sizes. They averaged $17.00 per 1000 which is up a couple dollars from our last order about two years ago. I am a manufacturer so can by direct.
They get shipped here freight free, all the way to AK. At the gun show last week the only primers available were wolf at $42.00/ 1000. The man was mobbed for the entire day I was there. He couldnt sell them fast enough to keep the mob happy.
Gouging? Supply/demand? He could have sold them for $50.00 and they would have sold.
Together we stand, divided we fall! Every man for himself ?
If it were possible to organise a total boycot the price would drop. That is a pipe dream.
The market is driven by greed and self and way more disposable cash than any average person of my youth ever had.
BIC/BS

[papa bear]

One good thing about getting old is that I now can accumulate a life time supply. Paying grossly inflated prices will only keep the cost up and the availablity down.

[Heavy lead]

The hoarders are running out of money and space. I am seeing powder and primers in most gun shops. Local gun shop had damn near fully stocked shelves with powder yeterday.

Have always keep about 30-40 pounds of powder on hand and an assortment of primers to insure everything is from the same lot. This also helps you to weather the shortage storms.

Remember about 15 years ago the similar primer scare? Bet ya some guys are still using primers from those years. How about the toilet paper scare? Then the coffee shortage. It is always one thing or another caused by a misinformed public. 10 months ago you couldnt find an AR at any price, now they are everywhere and the prices have fallen.

You may in fact be right (as in correct, sir) but I for one (with the unprecedented power grab in DC right now) wouldn't take the chance. If you need it, and you have the resources, buy it now, or risk never being able to. What's going on with the assault on free enterprise and freedoms is real. I'm not advocating hoarding, just stocking what you need, for usage or barter with everything not just primers and powder, but also food stores, firearms, lead, copper, tobacco, coffee, etc. everything that will hold its value more than the dollar for two reasons, the one stated above and the fact that the second leg of the W will be on us soon.

[smkummer]

The 1994 shortage was over pretty quick. Maybe this one is lasting longer due to internet, military and other reasons. But in a down economy, its really only a matter of time before the supply excedes demand. After the 1994 scare, I was buying primers for less than market prices into the 2000's as people dumped primers they would have little chance of using. In fact, I am down to my last of these reserves. I predict around the holidays or right after that prices will dip below $20 per 1000.

[1hole]

" It will NOT end until manufacturers add to production capacity.. "

And that's the truth. It has nothing to do with military or police orders, it has to do with our own buying massive quanities and the manufactors are wise enough to know that. When the hoarders FINALLY get enough, and they will, they will stop. THEN things will begin returning to "normal", so far as supplys go. It will likely take a long time before the distributors/dealers back off on the excessive high costs WE reloaders have now established. (Sellers only set prices, buyers establish market cost)

[jcwit]

I find 90% of the replys here are based on opinion only. With only a few based on first hand knowledge or experience. It WILL only get better or it WILL only get worse.

[Shiloh]

I know 2 guys that will not stop buying basics of reloading and shooting. Put the 2guys together they have more now than Bruno, the major supplier of components in the SW. And they have standing orders of a good amount that Bruno and others receive incoming. They will not stop. Both have a dozen or Match scopes salted away. They very seldom sell. I shoot with both of them. What sets them apart from the rest of us is they buy when the orders come in no lack of resources.

There is no good solution for securing your reloading future. But I do know this there are collectively more primers and powder dumped as our shooting Buds pass than anyone can horde.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR :brokenima


When the stores are all closed, these fellows will give the definition of "cleaning up" a whole new meaning. They can name there price and things will sell.

Shiloh

[nealhardin]

no primers around here and not much powder either

[Heavy lead]

I find 90% of the replys here are based on opinion only. With only a few based on first hand knowledge or experience. It WILL only get better or it WILL only get worse.

I find that 100% of the replies here are opinions as ALL forsight is always an opinion, educated or not, as there are no guarantees in life, nor for life at all.

[stubshaft]

One thing is 100% certain.

The prices will never go down!

[snowwolfe]

Snowwolf
What store was that? I need to get to F.B. and get some. Last time I was at the Sportsmans supply there the cupboard was bear.

Boondocks in Eagle River, they had a full stock of all the RL powders plus lots of others.

Sportsman Warehouse usually has more and more in stock every time I go there.

Great Northern Guns usually have all the CCI primers on hand, but they want $40 per 1,000.

[mike in co]

I
If it were possible to organise a total boycot the price would drop. That is a pipe dream.
The market is driven by greed and self and way more disposable cash than any average person of my youth ever had.
BIC/BS

there is two sides to that story.....

no one forced anyone to buy PERIOD

say what you will but private interprise is about making a profit.

the profit is simply a case of supply and demand.

why dont you sell me all your primers for $19 a k.....

that is a 2 dollar per k profit...exactly what i made on my wofl primers in dec and jan.

seems fair to me........
( yes i know you are a religous man/family. you have a standard, that is good, but i need to make a living, and pay my bills. for the last 4 months i have done just that...paid my bills. no profit . since the first of the year i have LOST over $6000. )
thats not greed.

mike in co

[gschwertley]

The manufacturers of primers cannot ramp up production with their existing facilities. Primers are the most sensitive and critical component of a cartridge. The manufacturers cannot speed up how these are made. As to expanding capacity, the manufacturers of anything to do with firearms are reluctant to expand plant for the same reason their stuff has been selling so well since the election. That is, political uncertainty. Why would they risk building another "primer factory" when they don't know how long they will be able to sell their product to civilians? For the fellow who thinks this is all opinion, what I've just said above is from a recent article in American Rifleman. I didn't make it up.

Absent some political event, demand will eventually become saturated. People will run out of spare money, space, and panic. That would be a normal cycle. Bubba will go down to his basement some day, look at his 500,000 primers, and think, "What in the heck am I going to do with all of those?" When Bubba passes along, his estate will wonder what to do with them; maybe sell them at a garage sale for a pittance.

By the way, the smart lawyer who bought those 500,000 primers had better keep it a secret from his insurance agent. A hoard of that size would very likely nullify the fire portion of his homeowner's insurance.

One thing nobody has mentioned. That is, the effect the end of such a panic will have on the business. Once everyone in the country has a minimum 20 year load of primers on hand, the making and selling of new ones will fall off a cliff.

I don't look for much of a price decrease on primers in the future. We ourselves have shown the manufacturers and distributors what the price threshold is. If demand goes way down and their sales decellerate, that will tend to reinforce high prices (smaller runs = higher prices).

[Bullshop]

mike in co
How is it your loosing money selling at a profit?
It sounds like you have a beef about something, hope its not me.
I think what I said is true about the market being driven by greed, self, and an abundance of disposable cash.
I pointed out the price of primers from the manufacturer, actually my buy is from a distributer that I believe makes a cut but the primers are drop shipped from the manufacturer. My cost at $17.00 per K for CCI and the gun show price at $42.00 per K would seem to be a greedy mark up to me.
The self part is everyone looking out for #1 and tahek with the other guy. Also noted by the pushing and shoving to be first at the table.
The disposable cash part is like I said when I was a kid nobody had none. I hear we are in hard times but I still see folks spending for other than the basic essentials.
Most of what I see about folks being hurt by the economy is largely due to a poor set of priorities and lazy lavish living beyond their means. If someone decides to ride the wave they need to be prepared for that sudden stop when it reaches the beach. On the other hand people that long ago decided to bear down and shed the fluff and learn to get by with little are doing well and not looking into a bleak future.
Nope no one forced them to buy them high priced primers and no one forced me to move to Alaska and adopt a work intensive subsistence life style either but seeing the way things are going I am so very glad I did.
BTW When I purchase these primers I have to sign an agrement that I will only sell them in ammo. Who will know? I will know.
Blessings
BIC/BS

[Bullshop]

After thinking on it a bit I think greedy was not a good word to use in what I said.
I dont really know what a good word would be. In the nearest town to me Delta Junction there is one store that ocasionaly sells loading components. He does not regularly stock them. He made an order for a fella that backed out on buying them we they came in. He gave me a call to see if I may be interested in some. I went in and bought some to help him out. The price on the primers CCI brand was $31.75 per K.
I would thing he was making a reasonable profit at $10.25 less than the gun show price.

In defence of the gun show guy why would anyone sell for less than they know they can get, I dont. Like I said greed was not a good word but I dont know what to call it other than as you said, business. They can take it or leave it but boy how anxious they were to take it.
Blessings
BIC/BS

[mike in co]

BULLSHSOP,
i assumed you were a class 6 ffl and getting the "correct" price for commercial reloading.

the price of scrap brass crashed, i have contracts in place and some of my wholesale accounts have bought less than in the past.....bottom line ,lost money.

last year i worked about 8 gun shows along with my wholsale and paid the bills plus a little. this year i have worked about 20 local shows, two out of state and have about 5 to go...and just barely making it.

i have sold primers at 60/k...that i paid 12/k for.......sounds outrages right...??? it was another dealer begging to buy them in an attempt to corner the local primer market. i sold, he bumbed his prices to 80-100 per k.........but then the market softened up and he ate them. remember i sold primers at the begining of this crude at a $2/k profit...over 300,000 of them....but one is silly to not make money when money is out there to be had.........

thanks for being an adult and taking it as a converstion, not an asult.

mike in co

[stephen perry]

I worked 25 years same gun shop part time for my friends. Since I knew their buying and selling habits I know they would have sold primers for double what they paid if they were in business today. In normal times primers were a loss leader unless we special ordered something we didn't stock. The shop valued their customers and would not make 500 % profit on a bad situation. Mike in Colo you have a bad retail attitude glad I deal with Bruno who has been more than fair during this component fiasco and yes he treats all his customers the same on prices.

Guys keep checking Bruno for primers and powder he beats most on price. But I feel Powder Valley is good to customers on price also.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR [smilie=b:

[ktw]

One thing nobody has mentioned. That is, the effect the end of such a panic will have on the business. Once everyone in the country has a minimum 20 year load of primers on hand, the making and selling of new ones will fall off a cliff.

I was discussing this with the owner of a little local gunshop 4 or 5 months ago. He's a small shop but does a fairly big business in reloading components for his size. He was rationing primers at the time. I was flush and not buying.

He indicated that when this was all over with he was hoping to not have a single box of primers on his shelves. He remembers the big buying panic of the Clinton era and when that was over with he didn't sell another primer for nearly 4 years. Every single one of his regular customers had socked away at least that much.

He's of the opinion that the exact same is going to happen again. I agree with him.

-ktw

[Lloyd Smale]

now this is third hand info so take it as that. Ive got a buddy who has a good freind down state in michingan that works at a machine shop. they are supposidly working three shifts makeing dies to stamp serial numbers on bullets. So stand by for that abortion! Cant imagine what that will do to the price of bullets and what it will mean to someone that casts his own. I can about gurantee that it will be illegal to do so.

[cajun shooter]

I was in my retired police officer's reloading store this past Saturday and was able to purchase 2000 WLP's for $37.50 ea These are the first such primers that I've seen in a year in my area. About 3 months ago I was able to purchase the same amount for the same price except they were CCI. He has a very ample supply of the Russian primers but I've stayed away from them as 2 of my fellow CAS shooters have had FTF's with them. If they would flood the area with one million primers I could not purchase many more with my fixed income level. When I read about people hoarding 250,000 primers it makes me sick at my stomach. We have some CAS shooters that can no longer shoot because of the prices. I would love to have food and water to offer the hoarders when they are with out.

[StarMetal]

now this is third hand info so take it as that. Ive got a buddy who has a good freind down state in michingan that works at a machine shop. they are supposidly working three shifts makeing dies to stamp serial numbers on bullets. So stand by for that abortion! Cant imagine what that will do to the price of bullets and what it will mean to someone that casts his own. I can about gurantee that it will be illegal to do so.

Lloyd,

In all do respect, that is a rumor that you should have kept under your hat until proven 100 percent true. Times are bad enough in this country with the vile political stuff going on, the fake flu scare, etc., alone to scare the devil out of us shooters, reloaders, casters, and hunters.


I thought about this after I posted it. How about we have the name of the company and we get some news media, say like Fox News, to investigate this Lloyd? This is a very serious allegation and the sooner it can be brought to light the sooner it can be dealth with rather then too late. So how about the name?


Joe

[stephen perry]

This is for the little guy like myself that has no intention of hording anything. I worked in the food retail business for 20 years, Alpha Beta and Lucky from 1966-1986. We sold food and helped out the community for those less fortunate than us. I enjoyed serving people.

The component shortages are hurting the little guy reloader/shooter. Cast helps if you have a source of ww. Some have to rely on friends for ww as either they have no transportation or strength to lift the bucket. My last bucket of ww weighed 144#. It took all my 59 yr old strength to get it up on my tailgate into my truck bed and took and equal amount of strength to get it off. I live in the beautiful State and former Republic of California and have no trouble getting all the ww I want.

As far as the primer hording and price gouging when they show up this is the greed that many oppurtunistic merchants have. When primers are readily available most sell primers as a lost leader to go along with their other components they sell. Bulk orders are a nuissaince to the dealer as they generally price them to make 5-10% profit. If you are paying help to sell components you need to sell allot to make it worth your while. Our complete gunshop needed to make 20 % profit overall for all of us to pay bills and enjoy our shooting sports. I had a fulltime job during the time I worked part time in the shop. None of us drove Cadillac's we drove Chevrolet's and Suburbans. Every 2 weeks we would go to Bower's in LA and buy bulk compnents like 4000# of shot, powder,shotgun wads, primers shotgun, rifle, and pistol. we were Betty bullets largest buyer of bulk Cast anand sold them back cheap to our customers. Gas cost money to do this but my boss liked to help out his customers on prices especially the older handicapped or retired. we seviced most of our Valley. We could do this because most of profit came from new/used gun sales and gunsnmithing that his kid the other owner and I did. Always plenty of smithing in a shop lots of stock work, blueing, and gun maintenance. Something must have went right in that shop as it supported 2 families and me generally me as a hobby gun collector, shooter, hunter, and reloader for 25 years me 30 years them.

Don't know if this is proper but guys like Bruno, Hoehn, Krazinski, and others really like their customers and are offering some of the better prices on components.

Guys and retailers we have to pull together on this component shortage. If we don't you will drive the little guy into shooting retirement for lack of funds and interest. Your grandpas back inthe 1920-40"s would have kicked your ass if they knew you were hording and driving up the price for the little guy shooter.
Done.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Springfield]

Lloyd: somehow I doubt IF we ever get bullets serialized that they are going to STAMP each and every one. Much more likely to have them laser engraved, or something MUCH more modern than stamping. Sheesh. Your friend probably has another friend who was paid off by the big auto companies for his design for the 400 mpg carburetor too.

[VintageRifle]

Obama himself will not go after your guns, he has other people to do that.

[jcwit]

This is what the people who hoard just don't get. Overall they are hurting the shooting sports leaving nothing nothing for the newcomer, or the kids going to summer camp wishing to learn to shoot. Its not their place to BE PREPARED its the camps. But when you read a post from one of the hoarders their reply usually is, Well I saw this coming and I got mine. In other words "screw everyone else, I'm more important than anyone else. What a selfish attidude.

Like Stephen said our grandparents would have kicked our a$$, or more than likely slapped them trying to knock some sense into their thick skull. But in todays world greed and selfishness takes precidense.

[John Boy]

I find 90% of the replys here are based on opinion only. With only a few based on first hand knowledge or experience.
Facts:
* ATK communicated that they can manufacture 1,000,000 CCI primers per day.
* ATK, who owns CCI and Federal, runs the small arms cartridge manufacturing operations at the Anniston Army Depot. Their June 2009 contract was to produce 198,000,000 small arms rounds (hello, primers!)
* And anyone who doesn't believe hording to be a fact - Oh Well!

[StarMetal]

Hodgdon has made some posters to put up on the walls of various sporting good stores. My friend in CO has seen and read one. It was addressing the shortage problem and stated in so many words that there is no government conspiracy and the military isn't sucking up all the primers and powders. They said it was a major increase on consumer buying. One poster mentioned about the military contract for ammo. Well that was going on before the great Black Imposter was elected. Tis not the case.

Joe

[stephen perry]

The only bullet worth stamping is the one that hit it's mark. DOA is not a joke it is a law enforcement/medical facility term.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR :brokenima

[JSnover]

He remembers the big buying panic of the Clinton era and when that was over with he didn't sell another primer for nearly 4 years. Every single one of his regular customers had socked away at least that much.

-ktw

I stocked up on primers during the Clinton Panic and am only just now running out of LRM. The only primers I bought since then was a brick for a buddy of mine as a birthday present.

As far as stamping/serializing, we only perpetuate the panic when we keep tossing these conspiracy theories out there. If someone knows it to be a fact, that's one thing. They'd like to try something like that but at this point I doubt it's feasable.

[TDC]

Well guys,

This is what financial, economic and political instability bring about.....

Don't think it's unique just to the firearms/shooting industry. As long as there is such instability in all those categories we'll continue to see manipulated shortages, panic buying, hoarding and all the negative results we are currently seeing.

This administration is dead set on "fundamentally changing America." To me that means changing the fundamentals of our free enterprise system through legislation, or, if they can't succeed achieving their goals in that manner, allow it to become corrupted through subtle or implied threats that will permit them to "rebuild" the system the way they want it to be.

We all know guns are a target. We all know there is a strange "longevity" to the component shortage this time. We can blame the manufacturers for not producing more products, blame the "hoarders" for being opportunistic, blame ourselves for wanting to have adequate supplies. Those are exactly the responses the left wants us to have to deflect attention from their anti-gun agenda.

Collectively and realistically, all roads that identify the causes of our current instability lead back to the president, the House, and the Senate. Their desire to "socialize" our country is real and it is occurring right now....

We've all got to get on the stick and change this direction, people! Talk to your family and friends about protecting our freedoms and our free enterprise economy. It has never been under such a powerful and immediate threat.

If you want to continue to enjoy the shooting sports - casting, reloading, hunting, etc...VOTE..... and encourage everyone you know to do the same.... It truly is our only hope..... JMHO.....

[rob45]

If you want to continue to enjoy the shooting sports - casting, reloading, hunting, etc...VOTE..... and encourage everyone you know to do the same.... It truly is our only hope..... JMHO.....

Let's make sure that we are accurately informed about what they stand for before we vote them in. During the last election, I cannot tell you how many different people I argued with in one of the gunshops about false campaign promises, true agendas, etc. This is not just the national level, but also the state and local levels.

I think the key to the voting process is to put them on the spot before they are elected. Ask for their viewpoint and then let them know where you stand. Demand answers and let them know that, if they are elected, you intend to hold them to the reply given to you. Above all, let them know that you are definitely not alone in your beliefs, as campaigning is most definitely a numbers game. Encourage everyone you know to follow this same process- emails, phone calls, letters, etc.


Back to the original subject of shortages, here is something for everyone to ponder.

In my area, our winters are relatively mild; we are lucky to get a couple of snowfalls per year, and those are fairly mild at that. The past 20 years, we have seen more freezing rain/icestorms than snow. But no matter how mild, every time we have any type of winter storm in the forecast, simply going to a grocery store will open your eyes. All supplies of milk, bread, eggs, etc. will either be in very low supply or totally sold out. What gives here? Do people eat that much more during a winter storm, or are they afraid of not being able to get it when they need it?

I offer the above example not to justify panic buying, but rather to state that I believe it is human nature to subscribe to the concept when anything we consider a need is involved. Remember the high fuel prices last year? Several local gas stations told their customers that the prices were going up. Several people actually "stockpiled" gasoline, filling up every vehicle and every spare gas can they had- a trip to the Walmarts and hardware stores proved the panic buying because there was not a single 5 gallon gas can to be found on the shelves. This panic buying was not due to lack of availability of fuel, but rather the fact that people were trying to stretch their dollar further by getting all the fuel they could while it was "cheap".

So whether it is for reasons of economics (get all you can before the price goes up) or reasons of availability (get it now because you might not be able to get it later), people in general are naturally apt to give in to the concept of panic buying.

[Ajax]

i beleive rob has hit the nail on the head.

Andy

[jcwit]

I understand buying for a "need", or panic buying, or stocking up. I also know and have heard of some that now have 500,000 primers or .22 rimfire rounds, now surmise someone shoots 20,000 rounds a year, thats almost 400 round a week every week, those 500,000 rounds of whatever will last 25 years. I think that is defiantly hoarding, and if ones age is 50 or more their going to still be burning up this amount at the age of 75 plus.

With this logic no wonder Obama got elected.

[dogbert41]

I have not been able to find Large Pistol or Rifle in almost 6 months. It's not getting better. And I check the stores weekly. More and more people are getting into reloading. So much so, that the price in ammo is dropping finally.

[AZ-Stew]

Lloyd,

The guy who is pushing this "bullet serialization" business in the State houses and in Congress holds a patent on laser marking the bullets and cartridges. The ammo manufacturers claim that the process can't be done in high-volume manufacturing, since the bullet, cartridge and retail sales box must all have the same serial number. Regardless, it would all be done by laser.

It would be possible to mark a tiny serial number on the base of a .22 caliber boat tail rifle bullet using a laser, but I'd say it's impossible to do reliably by a stamping process. As someone who works in an industry that produces small items in high volume, I have some insight into this. I think your friend's friend is pulling your leg.

Regards,

Stew

[truckmsl]

It took all my 59 yr old strength to get it up on my tailgate into my truck bed and took and equal amount of strength to get it off. Angeles BR

I'm 59 years old too, but have enough sense not to put 'em all in one bucket! :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[Huntr Pat]

Sportsmen Supply in San jose,Ca wanted $50 for CCI# 34 I just walk out shaking my head.

[TAWILDCATT]

forget about them increasing production,the machinery is not there it has to be made and shipped and would take at least a yr.and much money.most arms companies went backrupt after WW1 and the same happened after WW2.the ammo companies dont want that.

[jameslovesjammie]

I went into our local Scheels today to see what they had. The primer case had just about every type of primer in it (Except for Large Rifle Magnum) and quite an assortment of manufacturers. I got there about 4:00 in the afternoon. If I would have gotten there earlier I am sure I could have gotten some. Deer rifle season started here last Friday and the ammo section was HAMMERED.

I didn't make it to the Sportsman's Loft. I would rather do business with them, but I was already in the mall with my screaming 4 year old. You guys know how it goes.