Best Twist Rate For .416 Taylor?

[Three44s]

Last year, I gathered up a Savage 110 for a switch barrel project.

My itch factor for getting this off the ground is gaining momementum.

What twist rate is best for a .416 Taylor?

The likely cast boolit would be the RCBS 350 GC ............ but I will surely use the typical J-word too when nobody is looking.

Also who has reasonably priced drop in barrels for the Savage in 416 Taylor?

A&B seems to have about dropped off the radar and I called ER Shaw and they dropped the .416's as a family due to low demand ............. I really missed the boat with them ......... their Savage pre-fits are currently $155 plus 20 for shipping!

Mcgowen seems the next likely source and they make 1-10 and 1-14 twists for .416 bore.

Regards

Three 44s

[Three44s]

No takers?

Three 44s

[felix]

14 stock, but do make a custom barrel at 16 for 350's. ... felix

[Three44s]

Thank you Felix,

I see that stock is 14" but they also offer a 10" so that was my only other choice.

As I understand the 14 works for 300 - 400 gr. slugs ....... seems heavy enough for me and fast enough twist for me.

Three 44s

[frank505]

my little 416 taylor has an adams and bennet barrel, very accurate with cast at 2150 and j words at full speed. i believe it is a 14 twist, cost all of $80 few years ago. the 416 is the best use of a 7mm manglum and you can even use the brass to neck up. i love leaving them in the hills so dummies can wonder. flat shooting and powerful, drops buffalo right now and very easy to load for. the rcbs 350 mold will shoot well, something heavier does better though. working on 450 grain mold...............

[Hardcast416taylor]

As my avatar nickname implies the .416 Taylor is a favorite of mine. I have used about all production made jacketed bullets up to 410 gr. Rigby bullets with excellent accuracy in my Macgowen barrel on my control feed Model 70. The RCBS 350 gr. boolit groups into "Irish" clover leafs with 5 shots, no center in the leaf! I am considering sending "Buckshot" the RCBS mold to have him hollow point it. My barrel is a 14" twist and groups anything from the 300 gr. Barnes up to a minute of elephant accuracy out past the 100 yd. stakes.Robert

[frank505]

Robert ;
Have you tried the 450 grain Woodleigh? kinda interesting

[Hardcast416taylor]

Frank505. Did you get these 450`s from Huntington`s in Ca.? I don`t run across Woodleighs here in Mich. I would have to order them special. And seeing as I have the rogue elephant problem under control here in the Flint area using the 400 gr. Barnes solids, I question the need for something heavier. What sort of load would you use in the Taylor with these big boys? I am thinking of having "Buckshot" do a hollow point job on an RCBS 350 gr. mold for me to keep the mice in my barn nervous and controlled in the winter. Actually it would be a real bear and large game rifle then outside of Africa.Robert

[frank505]

I have not tried the 450's yet, just wondering if anyone has. I will order some from Midway or Grafs or whoever has some.
The RCBS 350gr hollow pointed would be an excellent choice for mice in the barn and even coons in the spring!!
Have been shooting the hornady old 400 soft with John Wooters load, 73 grains of 4320, fast and accurate.

[Hardcast416taylor]

frank505. Now you are talking my language! Ken Waters has some good advice in his "Pet Loads" books on the Taylor and its loads. I seem to remember 3031 and 4320 being most often used. I have a story about a dentist using a .416 Taylor on an elephant told to me by the gunsmith that did my work. The story is a bit too long for here, the elephant loses in the end of the true story. You should give the 350 gr. Speer a try for the sake of economy and less recoil, works great on chipmunks! Drop me a PM so we can share severe recoil horror stories.Robert

[Three44s]

I had hoped to get a .416 Taylor barrel made by ER Shaw since the A&B source seems to have dried up.

But they dropped it when their .416 tooling wore out.

So that leaves McGowen as the next most reasonably priced source.

I have been contemplating laying in the RCBS .416 350 gr. mold just in case they decide that demand for it has waned just like ER Shaw experienced.

A neighbor recently bought a custom Mauser made up in .416 Taylor and he's promising to give me a go at it one of these days ....... he buys hay from me ...... maybe I need to tell him ....... no Taylor time .......

......... no hay! ........... LOL!!

I like the notion of DEAD RIGHT THERE .......... I have seen enough elk run around more than my senses care to witness after being blasted with a 300 win mag or equivalent. And my initial thought was that a .338 Win mag would be the trick. And I have fair start on .338 brass. Then our local main gunshop closed down and there sat 280 pcs. of brand new Norma brand .358 Norma cases on close out. Snagged those figuring on converting to .338.

My neighbor is liking his .458 win mag brass converted to .416 thus far.

I have this Savage 110 and would not check myself into the assylum if I ended up with a barrel for .416 and .358 ........

Never enough time nor money ......... but plenty of ideas.

Three 44s

[frank505]

ran across a guy in Canada who was culling elk and unhappy with small stuff. Built a 416 Taylor and uses 350 Speers, really likes the results. Much better than a 375 or smaller, he said. Hmmm, seems like real hunters like them bigger not faster or smaller. Another guy built a 416 T and went Africa, one 400 grain Swift at 2100fps dropped his buffalo. Hmmm shot placement and big hole seems to work.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Okay, you forced me to tell the dentist tale. He was elephant hunting in (then) Rhodesia with a PH. and was carrying a .416 Taylor made by this gunsmith in Pa. He took a 100 foot away shot at a broadside tembo. The brain shot dropped the elephant, but during the congrats tembo got back up and charged the group! The PH had an older double in 450 cal. It misfired on the first trigger pull and the second barrel was recoil cocking, so he only had a club now. The dentist calmly dropped the elephant with a frontal brain shot. The distance from their shoes to the tip of the trunk was 10 steps (heel to toe) away! The first head shot missed the brain but most likely caused blindness and disorientation from the shock. The second shot was center brain struck causing instant drop. The bullet being used was a proto- type Barnes 400 gr. bronze solid. The first shot was a thru and thru the skull! A 458 with the 500 gr. solid won`t do that type of penatration I am told.

About the only dolling up I did to my model 70 in 416 Taylor was an additional recoil lug and had it Magna-ported by the front sight. I have a variable Leupold 4.5x scope with a heavy european #3 reticule (I think that is the #) in a QD type mount. The sights are a Williams set rear that I filed to point of aim at 100 yds. and a New England ramp front with a medium sized gold (brass) bead. The 350 gr. Speer is a accurate and potent load for most any non-dangerous critter in N. America. Barnes are very accurate in my rig, but are quite pricey. RCBS mold is very accurate with ww (water quenched) and LBT Blue lube over a bunch (?) of 3031 powder in Winch. brass. Rem. brass doesnt seem to last as long as Winch. as the shoulder splits. I tell prople that this a poor man`s Rigby.Robert

[frank505]

i am getting real tired of this confuser and trying to post something, and then being told i am not allowed to do so. i thought i was logged in...................grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
anyway, a "famous person" with a 416 Rem and 350 Speers was "helping" on a buffalo hunt. Buffalo was wounded(as usual) by a hunter, so our hero was told to help with some more holes. He was using a rock(?) under his chest as rest!!!!!!!!! At one shot the buffalo was facing him and downhill. Later when cutting the muscles around the large intestine inside the pelvis, I felt something hard against the bask of my hand. Turned out to be a 350 Speer, nicely expanded. Pretty good expansion and weight retension, although I do not remember what it weighed. I like them for elk also.

[Three44s]

Sounds like the 350 Speer will have to be another mainstay for me!

Three 44s

[Three44s]

I just saw this over at another forum:


http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=694972

An ..... A&B Blank in .416 14 twist .........

Three 44s

[Three44s]

The above link I posted is torqing me OFF!!!

Midway keeps moving the expected date as the actual one advances ....... we never get any closer .............

....... because the "goal post" just keeps tempo with the real calender.


Three 44s

[Hardcast416taylor]

I just got my RCBS 350 gr. mold back from Buckshot after he did a hollow point job and a insert plug on it so I could continue to cast solid nosed boolits. It arrived the day before Christmas - Thanks Santa! I`ll post some results of how this new/old mold works on paper when warmer weather comes back, danged arthritis doesn`t like the "cool" weather here in Mi.Robert

[Three44s]

Oh ........ sure pour salt in the wounds ??????

Just kidding!!!

The closer I (think I'm) ........ get(ting) ........ to a .416 .............. "the farther away I am" ......

Seriously, I am wondering if I should get that RCBS mold .... maybe two ..... one for Buckshot's magic and one original ...... BEFORE they could drop it from the line up.

(After ER Shaw told me their demand had dropped so low for anything .416 ....... I've been envisioning the writing on the wall!)

Three 44s

[Hardcast416taylor]

Three44. The hollow point work done by Buckshot is really art work in my humble estimation. The hollow point tool works like any other hollow point tool would work. The extra option of the plug insert in the mold base where the H.P. tool would normaly fit is held in place by a screw allowing you to cast solid boolits like it had not been H.P.ed at all. Pm me after you get set up and I might take pity on you and send you a few for trial. It`ll be around Springtime due to my arthritis not liking the "cool" weather here now in Mi.:castmine:Robert

[frank505]

Just got the July 1974 Handloader article by Ken Waters on the 416 Taylor. Havent time to read it yet, there is a dim picture of a factory Ruger 416 Taylor. Hmm, how dim witted are these factory types????? I guess maybe it was before lots of folks went to Africa.
I may have to send a RCBS 350 mold and get it HP'ed. Should be something fun for vermin and such(he he)

[Three44s]

I'd guess that a HP'ed RCBS mold would cast slugs that would let the air of just about anything walking around except the great bears. ....... with AUTHORITY!

I just checked the Midway link on .416 A&B blanks and they just keep moving their expected arrival date ........ FORWARD!

I get the feeling "somebody" does not want me to get a .416????

Three 44s

[cisco948]

Looking at Shaw's website, it would appear that they are still willing to build barrels in 416 Taylor: I will call tomorrow to confirm this, and to discuss twist rates. The A+B offering is standard at 1-14" and the Shaw at 1-15". I don't believe either manufacturer offers options to these twist rates. I suspect my needs closely parallel other members of this forum: I want to shoot cast boolits for practice (and the odd chipmunk) as well as 400 grain solids for pesky pachyderms/bothersome buffalo out to a maximum of about 400 yards.

Hardcast has posted his experiences with a 1-14" twist, which I will take as the gospel, given our mutual admiration for this wondrous cartridge. What's the consensus on 1-15": will it work as well, or am I apt to see keyholes in Dumbo's forehead out past 15 feet?

Any and all input solicited and sincerely appreciated.:drinks:

Cheers!
Cisco

[Three44s]

The potlickers keep moving the goal post on those A&B .416 blanks over at Midway!


The expected day to receive them just keeps moving out!


http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=694972


Three 44s

[Hardcast416taylor]

Three44`s, I have tried "J" bullets, from about any maker of them, in my Taylor. Right now it is zeroed in for Speer 350`s and Barnes 350 gr. solid copper X-bullets. I have put on paper Hornady 400 gr. sp and FMJ as well as Barnes 400 gr. H.P. and Bronze solids. I came into a bunch of old Barnes lead core .416 Rigby bullets a few years back. These are 410 gr. and also shoot well out of my Taylor. By well I mean all 5 shots remain in the 10 ring with no strays. My cast load is with the 350 RCBS mold using ww air cooled with a gas check and cold bear blue lube. I put 50 gr. IMR-3031 and a standard primer in a formed WW .458 mag. case and get "Irish Clover leafs - 5 shots making a 4 leaf clover with no center to it. This is at 100 yds. from my bench. I use a Leupold 1 3/4 x 5X european post crosshair scope as my old eyes do funny tricks with iron sights. The barrel on my "toy" is a McGowan with a 14" twist, done by an old gunsmith in Pa that has passed on now. I have Magna ported the muzzle to make it a tad easier so people lesser built than me can shoot it and enjoy it. Sorry to hear about the run-around you are getting with midway. PM me sometime as I am interested in what is happening. I`ll try to post some results about the H.P. work buckshot did on my mold this Spring.Robert

[Three44s]

Robert,

I am also thinking that while Midway plays hide and seek with these blanks ........ a McGowen makes a certain amount of sense.

As I'm planning on doing the .416 Taylor conversion to a Savage bolt gun ....... I know a source that can supply a pre-chambered tube for around 300.

When you add up the price of the A&B blank (assuming it ever materializes) plus getting it threaded and chambered (I have a quote of a hundred bucks, which I did not think was high at all!) ........

.......... I would be just shy of 200.

But there still would be shipping charges .................

But in all fairness, the McGowen barrel would likely come in at a shade higher than 300 due to shipping as well.

But an A&B upgrade to a McGowen for 100 bucks ........ does not seem out of line.

If I had my own printing press ............. like the DC set uses ....... I would have had one a long time ago.

LOL

Three 44s

[Three44s]

A neighbor swung by Sunday eve. and brought his 24" Douglas barreled .416 Taylor built on a Mauser action and some test loads and his chronograph.

He had loads with RL15 and one set with IMR 4320.

I got to fire a few rounds and must say ...... I want one more than ever! The recoil was not quite as much as I expected, he has a Limbsaver pad installed and the only thing I did not like was the SHARP rap on the middle finger from the back side of the trigger guard. Sitting, kneeling or standing ...... my middle finger took a beating.

His loads were all J-worded (Hornady 400 interlocks and Speer 350's) and he was following Ken Water's Pet Loads info. He and I were very surprised by the velocities he was getting. We are talking brushing up against 2400 fps with the 400's! None of his loads were max's either .... starting and midrange to upper mid's .....

The deviations with RL15 were VERY GOOD as well.

My take thus far is that the .416 Taylor is ONE SMOOTH OPPERATOR!


Looking at the loaded rounds and then the empties ...... I had to laugh to myself ...... just thinking about (member) Frank 505 ....... planting some empties now and then for $%$%! and giggles for other hunters to find ...... LOL!

Good cast slugs and this cartridge should be a match made in HEAVEN!

Three 44s

[Hardcast416taylor]

Three 44s. NOW YOU SEE WHY I LIKE THIS ROUND!!!!!!! I have wondered how you were faring as to getting a barrel. I hope to get some casting done with my modified RCBS mold done by buckshot. The H.P. job he did is beautiful. I will attempt a posting here when I`ve made some and shot them. Keep us posted on your build.Robert

[Three44s]

I have made no progress waiting for an A&B barrel ...... Midway keeps moving their expected arrival date forward as the calender progresses.

And what with last Sunday's experience, I'm feeling more frustration than ever!

I am getting the "got no .416 Taylor blues" something fierce!!!


Three 44s

[Hardcast416taylor]

Maybe your buddy can visit you a little more often, and bring his Taylor along? You can get in experience loading for it then. I feel bad because I am here in Mich. and would let you get trigger time on mine!Robert

[Doc Highwall]

I don't know if you people know that I use to hunt elephants but I had too give it up as the decoys just got to be too heavy for me.[smilie=w:

[Hardcast416taylor]

Elephants? Who`s talking about elephants? I use my Taylor for controlling the field mouse problem in my barn! Racoons fear the mention of my name also.Robert

[Doc Highwall]

The saber tooth ones are the most dangerous, make sure of shot placement as you might not get a second chance.

[frank505]

three44's;,i will keep my ears open for a 416 barrel, the midway a&b barrels are from the lowest bidder. They could be from about anybody, mine is suberbly accurate. Seems about every time I got to the range, there are some 7mm mag empties for me. I gotta learn how to post pics here, got some fun stuff to show.......................

[Eutectic]

I have not tried the 450's yet, just wondering if anyone has. I will order some from Midway or Grafs or whoever has some.


I've shot the 450gr Woodleigh.... While I think the standard 1 in 14" is fine 400grs and down, I would want 1 turn in 12" for the 450gr Woodleigh. You can see the yaw in the target at 100yds with 14"... But what bothers me the worst is not staying point on during deep penetration tests. If you were to go to Africa for the big nasty stuff you want a point-on slug to get DEEP.

Eutectic

[abob]

Was playing around on the online web site for Mtn. Molds. As per it's software for designing your own bullets, 1-14 twist works for up to 450 grain bullets. Not sure what velocity they base that on. That's for an approx. 1.4 in. long bullet. I plan to try mainly paper patch which should be slightly shorter than that - as no grease grooves. Bbl I have on order is 1-14 in. With the lighter bullets-- say 350's maybe too much spin such as a 1-12 would not be good either.

As someone once pointed out, having a faster spin also takes up some more energy, so some net loss in muzzle velocity- all things being equal.

Bob.

http://www.mountainmolds.com/

[Three44s]

Maybe your buddy can visit you a little more often, and bring his Taylor along? You can get in experience loading for it then. I feel bad because I am here in Mich. and would let you get trigger time on mine!Robert


Robert,

I think he will come back because his place is about ten acres so he can safely throw lead around here at our ranch.

I am brain storming on the "smacked knuckle syndrome" ....... the Tyler grip adapter for revolvers seems logical to borrow from.


Frank505,

Thank you for the offer to watch for a barrel ...... I appreciate that!!!

For posting pictures, I did it quite a while back and just followed the instructions in the "testing" section (as I recall) and if I can do it .... anybody can ...... LOL!!!


Best regards


Three 44s

[Three44s]

Doc Highwal,

I would just add wheels to your decoys ........ it would be a shame to prematurely give up such a hunting enterprise!


But seriously, I am not considering traveling to Africa ....... and not even serious about Canada. But I think our bureaucrats are always dreaming up mischief. A bear (really not from around here) might not be too acqueiscient about moving off a bovine kill.

My interest in the .416 Taylor stems from a handsdown self defense rifle and one hell of a great cast bullet platform with a modern case.

Besides the look on my wife's face when I showed her a couple of rounds of .416 was PRICELESS!!!! LOL!!

Eutectic and abob,

This was the crux of starting this thread.

Is it 12 or is it 14 inches per turn ........ which is the best?

I sure want to obtain a RCBS 350 gr. mold ....... but I am not going to be amused by 400 grainers keyholing at 100 yds. because I am seeing the "Taylor" as much more of a 300 yd rifle than just a brush buster.


Best regards

Three 44s

[abob]

Can't speak from any personal experience yet on this caliber, but everyone that I've read about so far has had a 1-14 twist --- and has been happy with it. If your shooting more of the 400 grain plus range, those mostly in my opinion would be for under 200 yard shots as in Africa-- then I would go the 1-12. 400 grain and under would be for the long range flatter shooting lighter bullets. That's why I chose a 1-14 bbl, don't know if I will ever get to Africa. Just my two cents worth.

If you go for the 1-12 I hope to hear how you find it works.... Bob.

[Doc Highwall]

I know the feeling you get when you look at certain cartridges. About 1972 I was doing wood working with a person that had a 1884 Trapdoor Springfield in 45/70 and that is what got me into reloading and casting. I bought the Lyman 457124 for it and then started loading the 30-30 shortly afterwords. Later on I bought a 458 Winchester mag thinking what the hell I already have a mould and then another friend bought one of the new Ruger #3's in 45-70 and had the Lyman 457125 mould. Yep I know the feeling you get when you look at certain cartridges, it is called a disease and I have a extreme case of it.

[abob]

Three 44s ----
After re-reading the start of this post -- You mentioned earlier you were considering a 1-10 twist, wasn't aware that was even offered. That might not be so good for the lighter bullets. You might consider the 1-12 as a good compromise -- in the end it's your choice. Or if you get a good deal on the bbl. get two with both twists to try and compare! Good luck with whatever you choose.

Wish somebody with a faster twist would post their experience.

Just a heads up I just recently received my 416 Taylor dies from Lee --- for the price they look good and major saving from the RCBS. ---they are limited run so you might want to order before they also are out of stock. Tried mine on resizing .458--they work fine.

Bob.

[AkMike]

Just for an FYI there Three44's I found someone who advertizes 416 drop ins for the Savage..

http://4-dproducts.com/savage-new.php

[abob]

Three44's -- also heads up you might want to check out Shaw--- as it appears on their web site they are again making 416 bbls. Although quite economical -- still not as cheap as that Midway deal was -- Midway's price might not be ever available again if it was some sort of surplus blowout.

Bob.

[Three44s]

AkMike,

Thank you for the link!

I'll check it out.



abob,

I will call Shaw again ........ last fall they told me they had given up on .416 bore for lack of business and their tooling was all worn out and needed to be replaced (they were my next most economical choice)

Also, I thought that a "ten" twist would be a little harsh for boolits ........ I think that the "fourteen" should be the best from what all you folks have been posting.

Also, I just checked and Midway is waving the white flag on the .416 A&B blanks ... so I won't be pining over that spilled milk anymore.

Three 44s

[navymrchief]

Re-starting an old thread here especially for Three44s. I built my .416 Taylor on a Savage and put a drop-in barrel from Shilen.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Haven`t heard from Three44s in awhile. Please tell me he has found a barrel for his project?Robert:shock:

[Three44s]

Hello guys!!!

Thanks for the kind thoughts in restarting this one!!

I just looked at ER Shaw's site and they must have a soft spot for this bore size as well!!! They have brought it and the .416 Taylor chambering back and are also building pre-fit barrels for the Savage rifle!!!

Now ........... from their web site, they are building on a "15" twist ...... 1-15" ..........

........... Is that quick enough?

I like the price if I am correct ....... I read $180 for barrel and shipping! I can sure live with that!!!

Best regards

Three 44s

[Hardcast416taylor]

I don`t think there will be any problem with a 15" twist. My Shilen is a 14" twist and has given me no trouble with any bullet weight for stabilizeing. You might look into the barrel fluteing Shaw offers, they make a gun look sharp.

I have been making some H.P. bullets on the mold buckshot worked for me. Frank505 has been testing them on critters with dramatic results from his Taylor. Thus far the only alloy being used is straight wheel weight air cooled. With warmer weather I`ll be trying other softer alloys and see how well they print of paper. I thought someone was hitting on my arthritic hands with a hammer the other day when I was out in the barn, still too cold for me.Robert

[abob]

Hey 3-44's ---- Midway is showing the A&B .416 bbl blank again available for $99.99 !!! Was just on their site and noted status.

Hardcast416Taylor- Rob ---- you just about have your spring weather yet? -- looking forward to hear how your .416 paper patch is coming along

[Hardcast416taylor]

Well, today was a warm and balmy -4 degrees F this morning at 8:30. I somehow don`t think that qualifies as Spingtime temps! I was on my tractor dealing with a 2 ft. drift blocking the mailbox for about 30 min. That was long enough with a soft 12 mph breeze keeping me from perspireing too much.

The .416 bullets are patching very nicely. I`m using copier paper and push sizing them to .417" with a lick of JPW on the wrap before push sizing. Haven`t shot any yet, can`t find my shooting benches for the snow! I`m using a 20 - 1 alloy, for lack of a better place to start. The .338 PP project is going a bit slower as my old paws don`t want to listen to my mind telling what to do! The few that come together and look like they should are keeping my interest alive to do this. I made them with the same 20 - 1 alloy. Wrapped they weigh 248 gr. I have some loaded up with 37 gr. IMR-3031 for a start load in my .338/06, I`ll play with the .338 Win. Mag. later on. So actual range results will be on hold till late March or for sure April when the warmer air is more common.Robert