Lee Enfield charger loading

[RU shooter]

OK 303 shooters whats the proper way to load up the charger(stripper clip)? I was loading some dummy rds into the chargers tonight for reload practice and noticed sometimes the cases just slide out into the magazine nice and easy and others require more thumb effort I never really paid any mind to how I loaded them till I started looking this time.So without a pic. of the rim staggering in the charger is this the proper way?, #1 back #2 front #3 back #4 front #5 back (Back is aginst the rear of the charger)

Thanks,Tim

[bruce drake]

Rims should line up like this __---__---__ in the charger clip.

If you find the charger are hard to strip off there is a small lip on the end you can bend in or out to make the clip easier or tighter on the brass depending on the need.

Bruce

[Bloodman14]

Huh-uh, Bruce, sorry, man. The rimmed cases in a stripper clip must be loaded so that the rim of the next case is in FRONT of the lower case; as in (see pic)http://100-0498
http://100-0501
this allows the bolt to strip off a round without catching the rim of the next round, causing a double-feed.
O.K., let's see if I did it right...

[Bloodman14]

Nope, didn't work. Hold on...I've done this before on the old server......HELP!!! How do I post a pic I took with my digital camera, that is now on my computer?!

[BruceB]

Bruce Drake has it PRECISELY CORRECT.

The three "odd-number" (1,3,5) rounds must seat against the metal of the charger. The even-number rounds, 2 and 4, sit on top of the rims of the other three rounds.

Yes, I know it sounds strange, but this is indeed the proper way to load chargers for the .303 service rifles. Take it from one who was trained by the Canadian Army in all things pertaining to the #4 Rifle, and who has owned MANY varied models of the .303 service rifles over many decades.

[StarMetal]

Bruce Drake has it PRECISELY CORRECT.

The three "odd-number" (1,3,5) rounds must seat against the metal of the charger. The even-number rounds, 2 and 4, sit on top of the rims of the other three rounds.

Yes, I know it sounds strange, but this is indeed the proper way to load chargers for the .303 service rifles. Take it from one who was trained by the Canadian Army in all things pertaining to the #4 Rifle, and who has owned MANY varied models of the .303 service rifles over many decades.

Bruce,

What do they do, line up in the magazine in the correct position after sliding from the stripper clip and snapping into the magazine? Wonder if this is true of the Mosin Nagant too?

Joe

[Gerry N.]

Bruce,

What do they do, line up in the magazine in the correct position after sliding from the stripper clip and snapping into the magazine? Wonder if this is true of the Mosin Nagant too?

Joe

The M-N strippers cannot be loaded incorrectly. The M-N has an interruptor which causes only one cartridge at a time to feed from the magazine. The only good part of the M-N design.

Gerry N.

[BarryinIN]

When I saw the thread title, I knew there would be supporters of both methods.

This went on in "Precision Shooting" magazine's letters section for months about ten years ago. I think, in the end, old manuals were dug up showing both ways of doing it. No wonder people on both sides are sure.

When I've loaded with one rim behind the other, they often tend to work themselves around to being staggered anyway.

[Bob S]

Bruce and Bruce et al,

Yup, that is the way the manuals show the charger should be loaded. The only problem is that it doesn't work reliably. I only load the magazine with five rounds for US "vintage" competition, and if I load the chargers in the "regulation" manner, 8 out of ten times I will get a jam because the rims don't stack properly in the magazine. I have had several transplanted Canadians and Brits "show me the corect way" on the range, and get the same results, in two rifles.

The only way I can get the thing loaded reliably from the charger is to pre-stack the rims. That makes the charger unidirectional, like a Mannlicher, but it's quite obvious which way goes in first. Not long ago, I sheepishly admitted this "error in my ways" to a couple of Canadian competitors on another board, and the response I got from both was "that's the way we do it, too", and for the same reasons. It's rock-reliable that way. I've never had a jam after I started loading the chargers "wrong".

So yes, I know I'm doing it wrong, but it works. Nuthin' succeeds like success. :mrgreen:

YMMV ....

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[45 2.1]

The M-N strippers cannot be loaded incorrectly. The M-N has an interruptor which causes only one cartridge at a time to feed from the magazine. The only good part of the M-N design.

Gerry N.

Hmmm......those rims don't know that........and they don't like being in the wrong position. Unidirectional positioning results in jam free performance when done correctly.

[bruce drake]

Whoooo, let's not turn this thread into another 6.5 Swede thread :D

Seems like we have a gentlemens agreement to use different methods. I quoted the regulation way. I've never had a problem with loading my enfields that way although sometimes I cheat and just drop the magazine and slap a second already loaded for Vintage competitions. Not the official way but I've got a spare mag and I like it that way.

Bruce

[BruceB]

This is very odd.

Millions of Commonwealth soldiers and millions of Lee Enfields served for many decades and several major wars, in every conceivable climate, with chargers loaded in the "official" manner. Combat-ready ammo came from the factories in sewn-shut cloth bandoliers, two chargers in each pocket, pre-loaded in the prescribed manner. Army Cadets as young as 14 had no particular difficulty in loading and firing the #4 Rifle with chargers loaded as mandated by regulation, in my personal experience.

The .303 rifles are famed for speed of fire and reliability in combat. Maybe we need an English accent to run them (grin)? More likely, it's a question of training, because many, many hours were spent in learning to use and manipulate the rifle and its loading system.

A uni-directional charger is a very bad idea for SERVICE use. In the dark and bad weather, it's a non-starter. On the target range, well, do as you see fit.

A magazine-loading device existed for loading the Bren LMG mags from rifle chargers, and as I recall now, we had to re-load the rifle chargers rim-over-rim in uni-directional fashion to use it. It was really too much danged trouble, and we mostly loaded Bren mags with loose cartridges, one at a time.

[Bloodman14]

Odd, indeed. The only way I have found to prevent double-feeds is to stack rounds in a uni-directional manner; if I stagger them, I get a double feed, each and every time. (Still trying to post pics.)
http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac7/leadcaster1/100_0501.jpg
http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac7/leadcaster1/100_0498.jpg

OK, this is hacking me off.....is there another way to post pics, without using this JAVA garbage?

[KCSO]

I've tried both ways and finally setteled on Rugerman's photo as my prefered way. I do put primers in my ammo though! All the issue ammo I ever got in strippers, and in the 60's this was how we got it, came as Bruce described. I found that how you push down helps and if you use the staggered system you need to push straight down and quickly. Nowdays I just hunt and I carry a spare magazine.

[mag44uk]

I was always taught the 3 up 2 down method. I have used the over lapping rim way as well for shooting the "mad minute". As has been said the rims often decide where they want to be!
Somewhere I have the official HMSO manual on small arms which shows the 3 up 2 down method.
The rounds should all be overlapping after having been "stripped" into the magazine.
Try it!
Tony

[Bob S]

Bruce B:

I agree, the way I'm doing it would be totally unsat for service use, as it doesn't make a very durable "packet" and a unidirectional charger is a distinct disadvantage. But those paper targets aren't shooting back, and we have not had to "load from the belt" in US High Power since the 60's ... I can just put the two chargers for the reload on my mat where they are handy. (One is a "spare". I always have two reloads ready in case one of them falls apart or in the case of the M1, a clip won't insert easily. And having done that, I have never had to go for the second clip or charger :smile:)

But I really wish I could make it work "the right way". If you ever make it the national capitol region (I'm ten minutes from Quantico), perhaps you can show me what's wrong.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[RU shooter]

Bruce,

What do they do, line up in the magazine in the correct position after sliding from the stripper clip and snapping into the magazine? Wonder if this is true of the Mosin Nagant too?

Joe Thanks all for the answers and options .
Joe I dont know if they do For Bruce B ,But I did some experimenting after I got home today with the different ways posted here with my chargers which I polished up the insides some, the way Bruce listed does work the slickest for me and in my rifles magazine Yes they do line up in the correct position after being pushed out of the charger stacked as he stated.Dont know how but they do I tried this 4-5 times each time the same result when pushed in with authority as in a normal rapid fire stage reload.If Ithumbed them down slowly I ended up with the top rd. in the magazine behind the second ? Again thanks all.


Tim

[Bloodman14]

rugerman, how did you do that!? What the heck is a direct link URL? How do I use It? I finally gave up on trying to post those pics (which are mine, by the way), and yes, they ARE primed!
Pics are in photobucket.

[rugerman1]

rugerman, how did you do that!? What the heck is a direct link URL? How do I use It? I finally gave up on trying to post those pics (which are mine, by the way), and yes, they ARE primed!
Pics are in photobucket.

On your photobucket page (http://s880.photobucket.com/albums/ac7/leadcaster1/) ,hover over a pic,copy the 2nd url down,direct link.Paste that into the http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/editor/createlink.gif option.

[45nut]

or below that,, use the code with the [img] in the line of code.

[Gerry N.]

Hmmm......those rims don't know that........and they don't like being in the wrong position. Unidirectional positioning results in jam free performance when done correctly.

The Mosin Nagant magazine is designed so that it does not matter how the rims stack. The INTERRUPTOR sees to that as it allows only one cartridge at a time into the boltway. All others in the magazine are held below it until the bolt goes into battery. Put 2 dummy rounds into the magazine, and close the bolt, you'll see how the lower one is held below the bolt's path as the upper one is fed into the chamber. When the bolt is rotated into battery the interruptor allows the following round to be elevated.

Thus, it doesn't matter one bit how an M-N charger is loaded, all that's important is that the rounds get into the magazine pointing forward, regardless of what order the the rims are in.

Gerry N.

[PAT303]

I've shot thousands of charger loaded rounds out of my enfields and Rugermans way is the only way they are 100% effective. Pat

[dromia]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=210&pictureid=1524

[JeffinNZ]

Good man Dromia. We can rely on a Tommy for the right info. Tell me then. Why does my SMLE load two chargers just dandy but my No 4 Mk II rim locks the last round on the top charger nearly every time? Was a right PITA at the service rifle shoot at the weekend especially since I was up against black mouse rifles.