Are there two sizes of M die plug holders?

[C.F.Plinker]

I am still trying to decide what size of plug to get on an M die for my 30-30 (see my other thread). In looking at the Midsouth catalog there are 30S and 30L M dies. The 30S dies seem to be for cartridges less than about 2 inches long and the 30L seems to be for cartridges over 2 inches long. My old Lyman catalog shows that the 30-30 and 30-06 M dies have the same body (the long M2 body) and the same plug. Could the difference be in the plug holder which is the threaded piece the plug screws in to and which in turn screws in to the die body?

In Joe Brennan's book he talks about just needing the short die body and being able to expand most cases using it. If there are two plug holders (Joe calls them the "top thing") would you need both of them? Probably?

Perhaps someone could measure their plug holders from the top to the place where the plug screws in and let us all know if there are two sizes of them. Again, my catalog shows parts numbers for the die body and plugs but not for the plug holders themselves. But the catalog is over 30 years old and things could have changed.

Thanks again,

[markinalpine]

Short plug holder - 1.75"
Long " " - 2.625"
w/cheap, plastic dial calipers.

Mark :coffeecom

[C.F.Plinker]

Thanks.

[SilverBow]

Another thing to consider, although it shouldn't matter for the case of 30-30 vs. 30-06 is the length of the plug itself (the plug being the dual diameter expander that makes the M-die special).

I thought I could get away using the plug from my 35 Remington M-Die (35S) to expand the case mouths of my 357 mag brass. However, I found that that when I turned the plug holder down far enough to sufficiently bell the case mouth, my brass developed a significant bulge near the head. When I took everything apart and placed the 357 mag brass beside the 35 Rem's expander plug, it was clear that the plug's first taper (narrowest) was too long and when the plug was pushed into the brass far enough so that the second taper coincided with the case mouth, the thicker brass near the head of the cartridge was bulged by the first taper. Does that make sense?

Anyways, I figure that the 357 mag M-die must not only be based on the short M1 die body, but also have a shorter plug.

[C.F.Plinker]

The old catalog shows that the 30-30 and 30-06 use the same plug -- number 7342064. The 35 Remington uses plug number 7345458 whereas the 357 Magnum uses plug number 7341804.

Now I am trying to see if the 223 Remington M die has enough range in the upward direction to size 30-30 or 30-06 by just changing the plug out. The alternative would be to see if the 30-06 die could be adjusted down far enough to size a 223.

[beemer]

I have both short and long die bodies.There also two lenghts of the threaded stems, that I know of.
Long Body 3.340"
Short Body 2.875"
My stems measure same as Mark's.

My Lyman 32 S&W Long-32 ACP dies came with a short body and two long stems. One had a short expander plug for the 32 auto and a longer one for the 32 S&W Long. The long plug bulges the auto case, I tried it.The three .32 plugs I have are all marked 32 with a different letter suffix and a different diameter and lenght for different applications. Things can get confusing.

Looking at the dies and stems it looks like a long body and a short stem for a 30-06. Both might work for a 30-30 but a long might work better. The threads would be close on the top with a short stem.

I got tired of ordering stuff I couldn't use so I started making my own expanders when I could. If the company stated the diameter of the plug it would help.

beemer

[C.F.Plinker]

Thanks for the body dimensions. It is beginning to look like the short body might not be tall enough to handle the 30-06 and the tall body with the short stem might not go down far enough for the 30-30 although the tall body with the long stem would handle both and be long enough to do 223 Remington.

The plug diameters are in Cast Bullets for Beginner and Expert as well as in this article. http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_LymanMDies.htm

The 32AP goes from .310 to .314, the 32P goes from .313 to .317, and the 32R goes from .320 to .324.