At what stage do you tumble???? And why?

[carpetman]

I guess I post this under reloading equipment--it pertains to what step in the process you use equipment. On another thread,there is discussion of whether to tumble a live round????? I don't understand the need to do that. My method is to size first,then tumble and a big part of the reason is to remove the case lube. The primer pocket will get some benefit of being tumbled---probably small amount as admittedly pockets dont come out clean. I do not like corn cobb as well as walnut media as the corn cobb will stick in the primer pocket everytime. Walnut runs out like sand. BruceB has posted that is no problem for him as depriming removes it. That makes me guess he tumbles before sizing and uses other method to remove the case lube. Some say they tumble to keep foreign object--dirt-sand etc out of their sizer. I reloaded for years before I had a tumbler. For the most part,I carry my ammo in plastic boxes and seldom let one hit the ground. I wipe off those that do before sizing. So my questions are at what stage do you tumble and why?

[StarMetal]

Ray

I pretty much do what you do. You're right about no wear on your dies if you don't tumble before sizing. The only way I see that happening is if your brass got really dirty, like falling on the ground and it was muddy and it coated the case with mud. Now if I pick up range brass and you know how it can be dirty at times, I will tumble it clean first. One thing I don't like about tumbling first is that you get the tumble media on your press ram no matter how good you shake out the cases. Besides I like to tumble after sizing to get what remains of the lube off (I wipe the lube off before putting in the tumbler as it makes the media last longer)because it does clean the primer pockets out some, not all the way though. I have found the vibrator type tumblers work better with the lid off, but put a piece of typing paper over top to keep the dust from escaping.

Joe

[woody1]

I guess that depends.........why tumble at all? Does it make the gun shoot better? Or is it to make the cases look pretty? Not me. I tumble to get or keep things clean. So, it depends......if the brass is dirty pick-up stuff or has been in dirty storage it gets tumbled before sizing AND maybe afterwards also if case lube is used in sizing. If the cases are clean (no grit) they don't get tumbled. FWIW. Regards, Woody

[sundog]

C-man, yea, went for years without 'knowing' I was supposed to have a tumbler. As time went by I began to surpass poverty wages and had a buck or two to play with, I began to 'discover' a plethora of 'things needed', one of which was a tumbler. Well, the short of it is that if I throw the brass in before sizing, there's less risk of scracthing a die (don't ask how I know). I like walnut better that corn cob for bottle neck cases, but for larger straight wall cases like 44 Mag and 45 acp I like the corn cob 'mo betta'. I've used Midway polish, as directed, among other things and it works fine. I do NOT like the Lyman green stuff.

I've had another idea about clean cases that may have no basis in fact, but makes me feel smart. Clean neck sized case in clean chamber make for the best of all possible variations. One reason I thought about this was because when fire forming brass, one of the old tricks to get it to form good is to wipe an oil patch every so lightly on the case so it could move in the chamber while forming. Well, the idea is to get the base hard flat against the bolt face so that body, shoulder and neck form correctly - the first time. Once this is done, it seems a clean case and chamber would only reinforce maintaining proper case dimension. I do alot of [Lee collet] neck sizing on bottle neck cases, so I have no need to tumbler after sizing. All this works for me so if you do not like my idea, just pass it by. Please don't tell me I'm stoopid as it really deflates my ego.... sundog

[wills]

After I rinse the brass and brush the neck. I no longer dry it first, just put it the vibratory tumbler wet and leave the top off.

How long is walnut shell media good, and what size is the stuff sold for case tumbling? I think it would be cheaper to use shell sold for bird cage litter or industrial use if I knew the grit size.

http://www.black-walnuts.com/page.asp?category=nutshellproducts&subcategory=productlisting

[felix]

I don't tumble, and if and when I do, I use the commercial dryers with 1 gallon pickle jugs (from resturants) filled with media (punched card chads) and cases. Include plenty of dry blankets to keep the machine in balance.

I typically wash the cases with lemon joy or pomolive. Rinse cases with tap water with a shot of vinegar, and dry cases quickly in shallow cardboard boxes in full sun. ... felix

[jcunclejoe]

I use two tumblers on my brass, with three total trips through.

The first tumbler is filled with treated Lyman nut media. I use this one on the fired cases to bring them to a good, clean, no powder residue on the outside, condition. (As long as it takes) I then run them in the second tumbler filled with ground un-treated corn cobb. This removes the red dust that builds up in the cases from the Lyman media and keeps it away from my dies. (1 hour)

I then size, trim, de-burr, and primer pocket clean/uniform.

Then I throw the cases back into the corn cobb to remove the case lube, (1/2 to 1 hour works great).

I then check every case and poke the cobb out of the flash holes and throw them into the "ready bin". It only takes a couple of minutes and I'm confident that every flash hole is clear.

I replace the media every 6 months or sooner if the Lyman starts to break down. It will begin to cake up inside the cases, enough that the cobb won't take it out. The Lyman treated nut gets messy at times but it cleans so fast I think it is worth the trouble.

As with any precision process or product, cleanliness translates to improved quality.

I'm not saying that clean, pretty brass shoots better than good, clean brass. What I'm saying is; that if I think pretty brass is as good as I can make it, then I guarantee I will shoot better with it. I need all of the help I can get.

This is just one way to look at the situation. I hope this has been helpful.
Joe

[wills]

[QUOTE=felix]I don't tumble, and if and when I do, I use the commercial dryers with 1 gallon pickle jugs (from resturants) filled with media (punched card chads) and cases. Include plenty of dry blankets to keep the machine in balance.

I went to a laundramat a few months ago, and did you know it now costs a DOLLAR to wash a load of clothes?

[arkypete]

My rifle brass goes into the tumbler when I return from the range, then I deprime and resize. Back into the tumbler to remove the sizing lube.
Then I trim case length, clean primer pockets, reprime, etc.
Pistol cases get tumbled, then thrown into the hopper of the Dillon and they get reloaded.
Jim

[Willbird]

ON pistol stuff I throw fired brass into corncob with a little lyman turbo bright additive, then they go thru the star loader for 38,357,45 acp, then they are done, for other calibers I hit them with some hornady one shot and never clean it off. de-capping knocks the cob out of the flash hole if it gets in there.

all the rifle stuff so far that I have been shooting lots of I use turned necks, so I don't tumble, I hit the necks with Krazy Clothe and use a bit of marvel wax.

for other rifle stuff I will probably do like I do pistol, tumble with primers in, and load away.

I would not fear a short tumble or vibrate of loaded ammo if I saw a need for it, I have not yet seen that need in 30 years of reloading...I did used to wipe loaded rounds that had rcbs case slick on them with a raq wet with laquer thinner in my highpower shooting days.

I have seen and fired old 7.62x54 and 308 that was tumbled in a CEMENT MIXER....had nasty dents in the primers, it mostly all went bang without fail...it belonged to a friend that had bought out an ammo dealer, this guy dipped loaded ammo in muriatic acid and tumbled it in a cement mixer, this was battlefield shovel up stuff I guess.

Bill

[carpetman]

Wills--You are correct the walnut I bought at the pet store was much cheaper than that sold for media. From the link you provide it looks as thouth the 12-20 or 20-30 would work--I'd prefer the finer as it will run out of primer pockets better.

[Maven]

Ray, et al: I almost always tumble my brass after I resize it (large Midway tumbler; pet shop walnut medium; Midway polish as needed). However, I wipe each cartridge clean immediately after firing it and I don't tumble brass ea. time I fire it. For range brass, the procedure is different: Use #0000 steel wool first, then FL resize & trim, M-die, ream the primer pockets and into the tumbler. Btw, my machine is quieter wi. the lid on + I generally throw 1 anti-static sheet (market brand/cheapest) in for ea. load. Lastly, my first lot of walnut medium lasted 9 or 10 yrs. ...Maven

[imashooter2]

I tumble before sizing to remove dirt and avoid scratching my dies and then bottle necks get tumbled briefly after sizing to get off the lube. I use walnut. Cob gets stuck in the flash holes and is a PITA.

[MGySgt]

I load almost exclusive cast with Lyman Super Moly - That stuff gets on everything.

I resize and deprime then soak in acetone for about 30-45 min to break down the bullet lube and then tumble for about 2 hours, poke out the corn cob that gets stuck in the primer pockets and it is ready for the dillion.

About 2 years ago I found a smaller size corn cob media and lest then 10% has stuck media in it.

By the way - the acetone also breaks down the primer residue and makes cleaning the primer pockets almost not needed.

This works for me and like others here - if the brass is clean and shiny it helps me shoot better!

[Willbird]

On the acetone, I did some checking on it, and it turns out it is not nearly as good a solvent as I thought, plain old laquer thinner is better for removing the kinds of things we remove.


Bill

[JSH]

I tumble before sizing everytime, even new virgin stuff. Then it depends on what I am doing with the cases after sizing. Some of questionable manner I wipe off by hand and inspect while whatching TV.
I was using the walnut hulls for the longest time, that damn rouge gets on everything and is a mess, only time I use it now is on really dirty cases. I went with the CC media last year, as 50 pounds for under $20 was cheap enough. Yes it does tend to stick in the flash hole, but I also clean and inspect them every time as well. I have had bothe the W and CC hang up in 22 Hornet cases, clear full and packed in there pretty tight.
If I want treated CC I have been using Flitz liquid, a squirt in there is enough and no red gunk on the cases. After the flitz has seemed to quit working real well, i dump a cap ful of paint thinner in and it seems to bring it back.
Jeff

[imashooter2]

-snip-
I was using the walnut hulls for the longest time, that damn rouge gets on everything and is a mess, only time I use it now is on really dirty cases.
-snip-
Jeff

I get my walnut untreated as blasting media and use Meguiar's Car Cleaner Wax as a polishing agent. Cheap and fast with no residue, packed cases or plugged flash holes.

[JSH]

That is what this cob was, blasting media. I think it must be a better grade than some of the others. The fellow I got this from buys it by the pallet. I gave away about 20 pounds to some friends. I figured when it got dirty I could just pitch it.
I will have to try the McGueires though.
What kinda $ is the walnut blasting media running?
Jeff

[felix]

Here is a situation where the NAVY has control over the cost of walnut hulls. I belong to a group of folks who own 150 acres of Black Walnut, culled to 50 trees per acre. I own 10 acres worth. The trees are 25 years old now, and are producing nuts. The nuts are shelled by the ice cream companys, and nuts divided between the various ice cream makers as a consortium. The same for the shells as they are sold to the facial cream makers. The remainer is sold to the NAVY who uses it to blast off the calcium buildup on the ships. The final price of the nut proceeds to our walnut farm (a corporation) is derived from the NAVY offering price. It varies according to how many ships are due to a sand blasting. They use these hulls because they do not cut through the paint as does the other products they could use instead. ... felix

[imashooter2]

That is what this cob was, blasting media. I think it must be a better grade than some of the others. The fellow I got this from buys it by the pallet. I gave away about 20 pounds to some friends. I figured when it got dirty I could just pitch it.
I will have to try the McGueires though.
What kinda $ is the walnut blasting media running?
Jeff

Geez, I can't remember... I bought a sack of it from a local welding supply house 10-15 years ago. It was cheap enough not to leave a lasting impression.:) I do remember that it was about half the price of the same stuff from Midway. I run my media about forever and tumble used dryer sheets to clean it whenever it loads up. I'm still using up that first sack

[sundog]

Got home from high power, set the rifle in the cleaning rack, and put my just expended 88 rounds of Win 06 in the tumble. Had to change the walnut media the other night as it had just got too loaded up. Ran some patches thru the rifle and let the tumbler have at it while I went and mowed. Brass really looks good. Its now ready to neck size and load. Nice slicky finish going into a nice clean chamber.... btw, I forgot to mention this on the IMR 7383 thread, but the cases just aren't very dirty.

Felix, tumbled 100 32 Spl cases last night, so I'll FLS and prime them and have them ready to go for tomorrow. sundog

[BruceB]

I musta had a senior moment.

Somehow I managed to post my longish reply to this thread on the one that's running concerning dacron filler. I am NOT gonna re-type the whole thing, so if you wabnt to see it you're gonna have to go find it. Sorry!

[RayinNH]

JSH, walnut and corn cob media can be purchased here:

http://www.mcmaster.com/
at the FIND box type in "walnut media"

Ray

[Ken O]

Most of my shooting is competion, (IDPA ISPC SC and all High power and Long range events) my brass hits the ground, sand, mud, etc. There is no way I would put it though my dies without tumbling first.
I use wallnut for tumbling, if I use a spray lube, which I dont use anymore, I would tumble in corncob after resizing. For pistol rounds I run it though a Dillon progressive with carbide dies so no lube is used. For rifle I like Imperial Sizing Wax for lube, I use very sparingly by touching my thumb and forefinger on the wax, and when I pick up the brass to put it in the resizer, I just turn it a little to get a little wax on the case. It is not necessary to tumble after. If you have never tried this lube, do so, you will be suprised.

[Willbird]

I agree on the imperial, it is great stuff, if you ever have a case sticking problem with any other lube imperial will usually make the process work just fine.

Bill

[shooter2]

Once or twice.
Once when I get home from the range and again after I size them just to remove the lube. I've never found a need to tumble a loaded round. After the second tumble I visually check them to make sure no flash holes are plugged. However, if it's brass that I am going to reload on my progressive, which are only pistol brass, I just tumble them once.
I use corn cob media and have been using the same 25# forever. I tried the Lyman walnut shell and, as others have noted, I do not like the residue it leaves. I use either the Dillon additive or the stuff from Midway. One is about as good as the other.
Some years ago a bought 500 rounds of LC '62, 30-06 match brass, and it was pretty discolored. I tried the case cleaner from Birchwood Casey and it worked well.
For primer pockets I clean the rifle brass every time I reload them. I use the PP uniformer for that. With pistol brass that I do on a progressive press I redo them "when they look especially dirty". Not very scientific I know, but it works for me.

[Bret4207]

I just got my first polisher, Hornady vibrator, at an auction last fall. It has what I assume to be corn cob media in it. I had some cases so discolored from years of storage and lube and hadling that they defied 4/O steel wool. A little mineral spirits in the the media and about 4 hours and they're clean. Most cool to have respectable brass once agin. The biggest problem I've had is with bullet lube. I use 50/50 alox 'cuz thats what I've always used and the mineral spirits cuts right through that. Primer pocket crud I still have to resort to the uniformer. I also found the vibrating polisher cleans moulds, my ratty wedding band, rusty tools (within limits) and plastic items that get that whiteish fading crud on them. All in all a handy item.

[old gunner]

One thing acetone does very well, is the ability to act as a drying agent.
acetone removes water very well, also it is a pretty good drgreaser, evaporates quickly. Acetone is dangerous, not good for the body, keep out of eyes and use plenty of ventilation.
Bill

[Wayne Smith]

I loaded for years, 30-30, 25-06, .308, 44 Mag, and 8mm-06 and never owned a tumbler or cleaned cases beyond cleaning out the primer pocket.

Then I started shooting BP, and learned to clean cases with a tumbler, 3mm ceramic media, water and dish soap thanks to the old Shooters.com and Redneck (Bill) and others. But the cases got clean, not shiny. Then I discovered walnut media and shiny cases. Now I tumble everything, I just love those shiny cases!

When needed I use RCBS case forming lube, just a touch, and wipe cases with a barely damp cloth. Pistol cases are sized in carbide dies and never see lube. I usually tumble prior to sizing 'cause I don't like poking it out of the primer holes.

[PDshooter]

My rifle brass goes into the tumbler when I return from the range, then I deprime and resize. Back into the tumbler to remove the sizing lube.
Then I trim case length, clean primer pockets, reprime, etc.
Pistol cases get tumbled, then thrown into the hopper of the Dillon and they get reloaded.
Jim

Yep! me too!!!!!!!!!Same

[Four Fingers of Death]

[QUOTE=felix]I don't tumble, and if and when I do, I use the commercial dryers with 1 gallon pickle jugs (from resturants) filled with media (punched card chads) and cases. Include plenty of dry blankets to keep the machine in balance.

I went to a laundramat a few months ago, and did you know it now costs a DOLLAR to wash a load of clothes?


Don't come to Australia, I havent used a laundromat for about ten years when I first moved in to the town I live in. It was $2 a load then. I recently paid $3 at a cheap hotel (Formule1) for a wash load and $2 to dry it.

I wouldn't be keen on tumbling loaded rounds, but if you want to pretty up your loads, use a Lee shellholder for their case trimmer. This will hold the loaded round in a drill while you clean it with fine steel wool or brass cleaner wool, which is what I use when I go to the range with a friend of mine who is completely anal about clean rounds. Mine absolutely sparkle and it kills him trying to figure out how I do it. I use Lee case lube watered down and dried before I resize and if he isn't going to the range, I don't bother cleaning them at all. This is also good if you are giving a 'collector', you know those guys who like to have a small collection and ask you for a round whenever they see something they don't have.

As to wearing dies out, I don't know how you could do it with carbide dies. I bought carbide 38Special dies in 1981 and have used them continually ever since, even loading for a pistol club for a few years. I finally got a case tumbler in about 1999-2000 and none of the brass ever got cleaned before that and it shot ok and the dies are still like new.

[45Dave]

I used a Thumler's UltraVibe 18 for many years, trying both corn cob and walnut shells for media. I was satisfied UNTIL I visited a friend who was using a Thumler’s Model B rock polisher that uses a wet cleaning process. He gave me the secret formula which is: Water to cover cases (500 or so .45 acps), one quarter cup (or less) of lemon juice ($1.39 qt) and a dash (2 drops) of liquid dish soap. This usually cleans brass sparkling clean in an hour or so.

Rinse cases in clean water, shake to drain, and spread on old towel near furnace to dry. Will try out doors as the weather improves and let the sun do the job. I do NOT use my cases more than once a month or two (as I have MANY acps), thus have no worries about residual dampness. I have been using this process since Jan 05 with very satisfactory results as the inside of the cases gets cleaned pretty well too. This not the case with much fired brass as the carbon is very thick inside the case.

Others have used this formula in plastic jars and just shake the cases every time they pass them.

I must experiment with larger quantities in the future with depriming before cleaning. Tried a few and the primer pockets were notably cleaner.

[tracker]

I don’t have a tumbler but I did wash the cases in the same brew that Felix does. Lately, I have tried Birchwood Casey case cleaner and it really work great. I first deprime all cases in a Universal Decapping Die made by Lee. I then let them soak in a bucket for ten or more minutes in the warmish to hot bath of the Birchwood Casey case cleaner. I rarely have to use a primmer pocket cleaner to remove the fouling as the primer pockets are easily cleaned out with a Q-Tip. All the powder residue from the inside and out of the cases comes off. The cleaner can be used many times over before replacing. It’s like soaking a pot to remove the hard stuck on food. It works the same way.

I then let them dry out. I then resize all the cases and then put them through the same bath as before to get the size lube off except that it only takes a few minutes to soak and the brew doesn’t have to be heated. I know this is a lot of steps but I don’t mind as I enjoy reloading and am a tinkerer. My brass is clean and smooth to chamber. It doesn’t look a bright as tumbled but is very clean and functional. My Dies are very clean and should last a life time. Clean brass is less wear on the dies and the chamber.

[airmung]

Just my 2 cents worth, FWIW. It's not really necessary for function, but I just like nice shiny brass. I deprime with a Lee universal depriming die since this helps to get the primer pocket cleaner. Then I tumble in a rotary tumbler for an hour or so using just warm tap water. I tried adding soap, etc., but it didn't seem to make much difference. Unless it was realy dirty range brass, most of it could have been reloaded at this point. If really tarnished or filthy, I ran it again in water. Then I tumbled it in walnut shell from McMaster-Carr (bought in 50 lb bags for very reasonable price) with some polishing compoiund added. I use Frankfort Arsenal which I got a quart of cheap at a gun show years ago. I'm sure any decent polish would work well. It comes out sparkling. If the brass is very tarnished, I run it in the tumbler with phosphoric acid/soap/water solution (naval jelly or Alumiprep is phosphoric acid and cheaper than Birchwood-Casey, although that works great too). This leaves a clean satin-finish on the brass and also cleans out most of the powder residue. Then I tumble with walnut shell/polish until sparkling clean. I ran across some very dirty powder residue and cleaned it by gently glass bead blasting the inside of the cases (at low pressure). It was time-consuming but produced factory-new looking brass with no gunk inside. Cl.ean brass is easier to inspect, and there is no chance of damage to dies. I once scratched a carbide RCBS pistol die and have been very leery of dirty brass ever since. I am an aircraft structures tech and so am aware of metal damage that can occur from improper cleaning procedures. Compounds containing ammonia and certain acids will affect the strength of brass, so do a little research before dunking your cases in vinegar or lemon juice. They might come out shiny but then rupture when you fire them. Also, using steel wool to clean brass will imbed tiny particles of iron in the base material which will cause dissimilar metal corrosion to start. Eventually this will destroy your brass. Cleaners like BH-38 or Simple Green cannot be used on aircraft due to their corrosive properties onh most metals, so use caution. Instead, use Scotchbrite or brass wool or a brass brush for this purpose. Check the labeled use of cleaners before entrusting your relaods to them. You don't want to create a batch of brittle or weak brass which could blow up in your face!
Happy reloading!

[azhunter12]

I have yet to get a tumbler. I asked my cousin his opinion and he said its mostly for looks of the brass. I dont think my loads would be any more accurate if I had cleaned them. Its just my $.02

[jonk]

I go back and forth.

Sometimes I size then tumble. Depends how the brass looks.

Sometimes I bypass the tumbler and boil the cases. It lifts off any mud, surface soot, lube, etc. Also good for removing case lube.

Sometimes I use the ultrasonic cleaner. Mainly if I'm firing a match and I want everything extra clean or am just feeling anal.

I rarely clean primer pockets. I've not found a need to. Primers don't seat any harder for me in a dirty pocket and the load doesn't shoot any better or worse.

Sometimes I don't even remove the lube. I mainly use lee lube which dries and doesn't contaminate powder. If it's a real light plinker load I might not even remove it from the outside of the case- though for higher power loads it should be done, to reduce bolt thrust.

[cajun shooter]

I never could understand this dirty brass makes me a master reloader thing. I shoot with some guys who have black brass. It's just my belief that cleaning your brass is one of the steps in good reloading practice. I know that it does keep the small pieces of grit out of the equipment and that's good enough for me. I shoot nothing but BP so I clean after each firing. If you shoot the other powder I would at least clean every other firing.

[mold maker]

I wash my hiney, my car, my truck, and I polish my brass. I clean and protect all the equipment used for my hobbies. It's a pride thing. I can no longer see to shoot to the potential of my guns, but I can see the dirt and tarnish. That I can still do something about.

[Lead Fred]

Fire it, size it, tumble it, reload it.

Rinse and repeat


As far as media in the primer pocket. I poke each one with a lock pick, then blow them out with compressed air.

[Beau Cassidy]

I will tumble dirty brass first in corncob with mineral spirits. Next I will tumble them in clean media with a polish. If it is a rifle round it gets tumbled again in the polishing media to get the lube off.