Tracing-Paper-Patch Limits

[Zeek]

In looking through the listings, here, I see many references to using tracing paper, but I have not heard much about how a way-thin 2X patch of the stuff actually performs (group size on-target, with what alloy hardness at what MV from which chambering). Could those of you have had good-or-bad experiences with using tracing paper for patch material please let us all know how your experimental loads turned out? I think it would be useful to find out at what point a paper patch becomes too thin to be of much help or, conversely, how thin it can be and still work.
Thanks, Zeek

[Southern Son]

Zeek, I have been using tracing paper in my .458Win Mag. I have been running light loads (not gone above 1400fps with a 525gr boolit), but there is no sign of the paper being the weakest link. Most what I have shot has been about 1200fps and it has held less than 1 inch at 50 yards when I do the right thing. Good fun when you hit a bowling pin, not so much fun having to walk around picking up the splinters that blow out of the pin when you hit it.

[Nobade]

Tracing paper is some really tough stuff. 100% cotton. I have been using drafting vellum, same thing but thicker with good results. Using that finally allowed me to see good results with my 308 where all other paper I tried didn't work. And it comes with lines on it, so it's easy to cut straight. I think if you started with a bullet close to your final diameter, regular tracing paper would work. The kind I have here only adds .007 to the diameter with two wraps, so a bore diameter bullet doesn't get big enough.

[barrabruce]

I treid tracying paper but... I could not get the stuff to stick to my bullets well enough to resize with out becoming loose on the core.
That and trying to get a tight tail or fold didn't help either.

May try again as I have some more experiance wrapping now.

Stronger than lined paper etc but couldn't get it to work for me.

My deductions of the stuff at this point in time...which change continually.

Barra

[beemer]

I use Mead tracing paper for a 303 amd 7.62X54, it is .0015 thick and takes two wraps. The 91/30 shoots PP as good as jacketed at 2350 fps. The 303 shoots most of it's groups under 2'' at 100 yds for five shots at close to 2200 fps, it does have a scope. I use the Lee 185-312 boolit and lube the PP with LLA.

beemer

[yondering]

I've tried tracing paper and drafting vellum, but it doesn't stay on the boolit once it dries. I'm using warm water with a little baking soda in it, wetting the paper thoroughly, but once it dries, the paper just unwraps itself.

I've gone to just using plain old printer paper. Works fine, and sizes down nice and hard.

[docone31]

I use the paper soaking wet. I mean dripping.
I also use a cigarette roller. When the roller is done, the patch comes out slightly damp. The roller compresses the paper slightly so when it dries, the shrink really grabs it.

[yondering]

The stuff I've tried doesn't seem to shrink very much, if at all, compared to normal printer paper.

[6.5 mike]

I started pping to match a boolit to an odd bore size so most of my work is still going on. I got lucky in that tracing paper worked in most cases bringing the diameter up to what I needed.
I have not had trouble with the patches getting loose after they dry, in fact you can see the lube grooves very clearly after drying & shrinkage. This is with meade paper from wally world. I really can't tell any difference between twisting or folding the tails as i've done both with 7mm & 30 cal. I wrapped some lee 200 gr 45''s to get an idea of what I could use, notebook or tracing paper, in a 45-70. The tracing paper shrank so much that it came all the way up onto the nose of the boolit, notebook paper didn't get close.
I did try 5 paper patched 200 gr lee boolits as cast in my hiwall, it's the only time I've seen confetti hanging in the air. The others I'd tried, I found paper shreads in front of the bench. The Krag load is in the 1650 fps range. And yes Yondering, these were sized after wrapping. I think you may have something in what you've said. I will be trying this again.

[303Guy]

I have tried two different tracing papers. The one shrinks real tight while the other doesn't. Maybe the paper is cut cross grain - I haven't checked. Notepad papers also behave differently. The one I like for its 'crimp-fold' quality is Airmail Ruled Pad made by (or for) Croxley Sationary LTD in NZ.

[Southern Son]

I think that 303Guy has it. I have found that if I cut tracing paper accross the grain (so that the grain runs in the same direction as the boolit), it will shrink on tight, same with the 25% cotton rag paper I just bought. I tried wrapping the boolit with the grain running around the boolit, and after the water dried, the paper was still not tight on the booit ogive. When I cut it so that the grain ran in the same direction as the boolit, as soon as the paper was dried, I could see that it was tight all the way up onto the ogive. However, I also found that if I pulled too tight while wrapping the boolit with wet paper, the paper tore much more easily than if the grain ran around the boolit.

[montana_charlie]

Southern Son has it right on the paper grain.

When the topic has come up in the past, some experienced PP-ers said it makes no difference on the target, so they ignore the direction of the grain.
That may be true, but wrapped the way Southern Son does, the patch is more willing to take on the 'curled' shape and less likely to want to unroll.

My patches are on rolled dry. If I remove one (for some reason) and try to roll it back on, it's a fight to keep it flat enough to work with.

CM

[Baron von Trollwhack]

100% cotton paper should stretch when wet and rolled tightly, AND should shrink on tightly when dry. Plain water only.

I always cut my strips to be cut into patches so that IF you unrolled a patch and it happened to be the watermark on the sheet , you could read it. BvT

[yeahbub]

I'm with 303guy, Southern Son and others on the matter of how the patch is cut. I found that cutting strips from the long edge of an "E" size sheet of drafting vellum left me with loosey-goosey patches that would fall off if I wasn't careful, but cutting them from the end of the sheet makes them nicely stretchable and with pronounced shrinkage when dry. I also noticed that I could cut the patches about .080 short and get the patches to conform to the ogive a good ways up, sharply conforming to the grease grooves and gas check shank if there is one by rolling them until the ends meet. I no longer mess with twisted tails, using a dab of carpenter's glue on the end of the patch (paper glued to paper, never lead) and leaving .100-.150 below the heel to fold over.

Unlike drafting vellum, the tracing papers I've used were not 100% cotton and tore easily. My success rate was low, but I was at the beginning of my patching carrer also. I may have been a bit ham-handed. They didn't seem to stand up well to being sized more than a few thousandths when using WW metal or the driving bands would clip through the patch. I would expect 100% cotton tracing papers to have a toughness comparable to drafting vellum. Both are available by the sheet and by the roll at the following website:
http://estore.masterg.com/drafting-supplies/unprinted
I got the the 42" x 20 yard roll of 16lb drafting vellum which is currently on sale at a almost 30% off, so I'm set for a while. The tracing paper is even cheaper than that, but I haven't been able to ascertain if it's 100% rag paper. I'm spoiled by the durability of 100% rag, so I no longer trifle with anything else.

[303Guy]

I no longer mess with twisted tails, using a dab of carpenter's glue on the end of the patch (paper glued to paper, never lead) and leaving .100-.150 below the heel to fold over.That's how I do it too. The spot of glue is just over the boolit heel. I use paper glue and find that once the patch has dried there is no visible trace of the glue and the patch can be unwrapped without tearing but it never unwraps on it's own.

[Zeek]

. . . Unlike drafting vellum, the tracing papers I've used were not 100% cotton and tore easily. My success rate was low, but I was at the beginning of my patching carrer also. I may have been a bit ham-handed. They didn't seem to stand up well to being sized more than a few thousandths when using WW metal or the driving bands would clip through the patch. I would expect 100% cotton tracing papers to have a toughness comparable to drafting vellum. . . . .
Yes, Yeabub, that has been my experience and concern too. Unlike even part-cotton 16# notebook paper, tracing paper seems to let the WW alloy peep through in places if not sized just exactly right. How do you to "right"? ~~~> Use a short, flat-faced top punch (if done in lubrisizer) and size nose-first; or just use a Lee-or-self-made push-through die (again, with flat-top punch in the press ram and sizing the boolit point-first).
I'll have to try that vellum, but my purchase of a roll of tracing paper was by way of trying to find a paper that would give less than 0.010" added diameter for the standard 2X PPCBoo wrap. Are you getting 0.010" added diameter with 16# vellum?
Regards, Zeek

[yeahbub]

Hello, Zeek.

The drafting vellum I use mics .0025 dry, but adds a consistent .009 with two wraps. I've heard others mention this characteristic, though I can't explain why it wouldn't be .010. Maybe it has to do with cutting them a bit short and rolling/stretching until the ends meet. In any case, I've not seen any negative effects from sizing them .010 or a bit more in one stroke. The vellum can generally be found at art supply stores if you'd like to get a sheet and see how you like it without investing in a whole roll. Good luck with it.

YeahBub

[Zeek]

Thanks for your input, y'awl!
Regards, Zeek