Fire lapping slugs

[jack19512]

Anyone have any experience with these and care to recommend some that you have tried and found they worked? I have a Ruger SBH 44 mag that has a very tight spot where the barrel screws into the frame and I can't get any decent accuracy from this revolver. Or if you know of another cure for this, no I don't want to trade it in for a S&W or throw the revolver into a lake. :bigsmyl2:

[largom]

I use cast boolits for the firearm in use. Instead of lubing in my lube/sizer I roll the boolits in my fire lapping compound until lube grooves are filled. Rolled between two steel plates. Size of plates does'nt matter, mine are 1/4 x 1 x 3 inches. Lapping compound can be had from NECO or 1200 grit lapping compound. Midway might sell it.

Larry

[docone31]

Auto parts stores have it. Napa especially. They have the most grits.
I have used the water based. I do not like it. It must be used fairly quickly, or it dries out.
The oil/grease based works best.
It solves a variety of ills. That is for sure.
It does not take many.

[dubber123]

Alot of guys use much finer grits than me, but even the NAPA 320 grit valve lapping compound leaves me with a very shiny finish on the half dozen bores I have lapped. Don't be afraid to try it, it's not hard to do.

[BABore]

The main thing is to use 10-12 bhn boolits that have alot of bearing surface. Ogival nose profiles are much preferred over Keith's. The square edge of the front band doesn't give a real nice transition. I use 320-400 grit Clover brand in a grease suspension. Keep the velocity very low, airgun speeds. About 2-2.5 grains of Red Dot with a tuft of dacron on top. I like to use fired cases for lapping, and just deprime and prime. The already expanded brass keeps much of the crud from blowing back into the cylinder.

[Catshooter]

I use the longest slug I have for the caliber for maximum bearing surface. I also use pure lead.

I have heard that Ruger's stainless is one of the toughest steels to firelap, never done one though. Might take more that just a few. Good luck!


Cat

[crabo]

I roll the boolits in my fire lapping compound until lube grooves are filled. Rolled between two steel plates.
Larry

I used to do this and made a big mess. Now I work to imbed the grit into the bearing surfaces with the steel plates. I asked Veral about this

"Only what is imbedded does the cutting. It doesn't need to be globbed on."
Veral

[mdi]

I purchased the ones I used from Beartooth Bullets.

http://beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

http://beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

[jack19512]

I purchased the ones I used from Beartooth Bullets.







If I am correct it would cost me $50.00 to try this. :(

[anachronism]

This would be a great use for LEEs 240 gr PB 44 bullet. It's almost a full wadcutter with a little cone on the nose. I detest the design, but keep one around for lapping purposes.

[Catshooter]

I used to do this and made a big mess. Now I work to imbed the grit into the bearing surfaces with the steel plates. I asked Veral about this

"Only what is imbedded does the cutting. It doesn't need to be globbed on."
Veral

Really. So if you get compound in the lube grooves, it won't come out as the boolit travels down the bore? Mmm. Funny how the lube will often exit the groove though.

I don't think that that answer was thought through.


Cat

[jack19512]

This article is why I don't feel comfortable fire lapping now. If I am understanding it correctly.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/Fire_Lapping.htm

[largom]

Jack, Allmost all of my hunting rifles have been fire-lapped. I have fire-lapped dozens of guns for customers. All have shown an improvement in accuracy.
Yes it does enlarge the throat a couple of 10/1000 in. and it will lengthen the throat a couple of 1/1000 in. however I will not live long enough to shoot these barrels out, especially with cast boolits.
If you have an inaccurate gun you have 3 choices, live with it the way it is, sell it, or fix it. Choice is yours.

Larry

[jack19512]

If you have an inaccurate gun you have 3 choices, live with it the way it is, sell it, or fix it. Choice is yours.







Living with an inaccurate gun has never been and will never be an option for me. Anything I put in my gun safe has to earn the right to be there. I am working on it right now to try and fix it.

I have decided I really don't have anything to lose by trying the fire lapped process. Some of you guys may think I am exaggerating but I would not deer hunt with this revolver even if I were guaranteed a 25 yard clear shot! Jacketed commercial ammo actually shoots worse than my cast boolits. :mad:

[dubber123]

If it really makes you nervous, just try 6, and re-check. It is unlikely you will see much of a difference, but that might help you to continue.... I did an OLD S&W 32 Wcf, (32-20) revolver with a black, rough bore. It took perhaps 50 Lee .32 wadcutters, but the bore now has a little shine, doesn't foul anywheres near as bad, and accuracy improved dramatically. What looked like a sure rebarrel project definately doesn't need one now.

[44man]

This article is why I don't feel comfortable fire lapping now. If I am understanding it correctly.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/Fire_Lapping.htm
Very true and is why I tried something else. I took a "Q" tip and applied a thin coat of lapping compound at the front of the forcing cone and into the bore a short ways. A very slow soft boolit did a nice job without enlarging the throats.
Yes I had to remove the cylinder for each shot to apply more.
However, if the throats are too tight to start with, shoot the boolits with grit. Fire lap before getting throats reamed but lapping might cure that problem too.
Now to figure out how to lap a rifle without grit touching the throats or leade----UUUUMMM! :mrgreen:

[9.3X62AL]

GREAT THREAD. I have yet to fire-lap any barrel or throats, but the information presented herein is lighting the way nicely. I see a sticky in this thread's future.

One of my rangemaster buddies from work was a great believer in fire-lapping to improve rifle accuracy, and used NECO products extensively. Most of his rifles so treated were bolters in either 223 or 308, but he did get venture outside the box a bit with a 243 and a 22-250. He tended to fire-lap them, work up a mondo-accurate load, then get bored with them and sell them off. Friends of ours following in his wake came away with some VERY accurate systems. He enjoyed the chase--the goal, not so much.

[jack19512]

I tried something last night but I think I only succeeded in polishing my bore. I used the slug that I had previously slugged the barrel with and the only thing I had on hand was automotive rubbing compound.

I had already pushed the slug through the bore enough times while checking the tight spot in the barrel so the slug had slightly become a little more lose fitting in the barrel but still very tight fitting where the barrel screws into the frame.

I used the rubbing compound and the slug and continued to coat the slug and then push it through the barrel. It seems like I must have done this about 1000 times although I am sure it wasn't that many.

I then cleaned the barrel good and using my bore light I examined the bore and I must admit it sure was shiny and pretty but I don't think I accomplished much as far as the tight spot goes. Well, I guess I shined it up too I guess. :bigsmyl2:

So today I ordered the Tubb final finish lapping bullets from Midway. I don't have a gunsmith available to me so I guess this is my last resort. I should just send the revolver back to Ruger but they had 3 months to fix it before and to be honest about it I am having my doubts if they actually replaced the barrel like they said they did. This was one of the original problems I had with the gun and made it clear to Ruger concerning this problem. :cry:

[Edubya]

Very true and is why I tried something else. I took a "Q" tip and applied a thin coat of lapping compound at the front of the forcing cone and into the bore a short ways. A very slow soft boolit did a nice job without enlarging the throats.
Yes I had to remove the cylinder for each shot to apply more.
However, if the throats are too tight to start with, shoot the boolits with grit. Fire lap before getting throats reamed but lapping might cure that problem too.
Now to figure out how to lap a rifle without grit touching the throats or leade----UUUUMMM! :mrgreen:
How about applying the grit with a pipe cleaner?
They are much longer and sturdier than a Q-tip and can be bent as necessary. I use them for cleaning also, especially the upper strap on my revolvers.
They are available at you local tobacconists and I've seen them at craft stores also.
EW

[jack19512]

I shot the SBH 44 mag today and although it's nothing to brag about this is the best group I have been able to get so far. Six shot group but from only 25 yards with my cast boolits. Believe it or not this is actually an excellent group if you compared it to what I had been getting. I wanted to shoot a group so I would have something to compare it to after I fire lap it. Even after I worked on it for hours the other night there is still a serious restriction where the barrel screws into the frame.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/DCP01498.jpg

[freedom475]

you may want to try..(if you haven't already) shooting a group with each chamber...instead of a cylinder full... you may find you have other problems besides the tight spot???

[jack19512]

you may want to try..(if you haven't already) shooting a group with each chamber...instead of a cylinder full... you may find you have other problems besides the tight spot???






I tried that before I sent the revolver back to Ruger for repairs thinking I might have other problems but accuracy was still very bad, have not tried it again because until I get this tight spot taken care of I don't think accuracy has a chance. I am anxious to see if fire lapping helps any. Be my luck just more money thrown away. :groner:

[jack19512]

I got my fire lapping bullets from Midway today. I got them loaded up and ready to go. I will find out tomorrow if it was $30.00 + well spent or just wasted.

[RegCom7]

Well, was it worth it? I also have a restriction in the same place in my New Vaquero. This gun has never been accurate, but I like everything else about it. So I just ordered the Wheeler kit from Midway and I'm going t try it next weekend. So I'm curious to hear your results. :coffee:

[crabo]

I use boolits cast from pure lead and use LBT's firelapping compound. A bottle lasts a long time.

[RegCom7]

Is it best to use unlubed, or lubed bullets? Does it matter?

[docone31]

I would treat them like jacketeds.
When I have firelapped, I used the grease with the grit as lube. I have not added lube.

[crabo]

Veral says the lube defeats the purpose making it take much longer. I have gotten rid of the barrel constriction on all my revolvers and a few friends by firelapping.

[RegCom7]

Thanks for your help! I have some 20/1 unlubed bullets that I'll use.

[looseprojectile]

all of you here have the equipment to cast boolits. Then you also have the equipment to pour a lead lap in the bore. You then have some control of the process. You can FEEL the progress. You can, by feel make a bore larger at the breech end [very slightly]. I believe that I can lap a bore in a rifle in about the same time that it would take to cast and roll a bunch of boolits in grit and load and shoot them. Short guns are even easier.
Pistols and revolvers are soooo easy. Larger calibers are easier, more room to work.
I pity those that have to lap seventeen and twentytwo caliber barrels every day for a living. Very tedious work, that.
I have never lapped a barrel that was not vastly improved. Of course I did not start with a perfect bore on the ones I did. Removing tight spots in a barrel is what hand lapping is for. Very few, really expensive guns have perfect bores.
I have ONE.
The subject here is fire lapping. I have not done that yet. No need.

Life is good

[Wally]

looseprojectile

How do you attach the lap to a rod to push it back & forth in the barrel?

[looseprojectile]

I use a jag with rings or a slot. I have used a worn out bore brush after burning all the crud off with a torch. Just plug the bore with your choice of non combustible material in the dry bore, insert rod with jag and heat the barrel and pour. I find that the barrel needs to be about 300 degrees to facilitate the pour and to minimize the wrinkles. Don't be discouraged if your first attempt doesn't come out right as there are hundreds of them in a few ounces of lead.
In a six inch barrel I like a four inch lap. In a rifle I like about a six inch lap. Don't pour so much as to over fill as it is a pain to trim the extra lead. The lap doesn't have to look perfect just has to have 80 - 90% of it's surface bearing on the bore somewhat evenly. Wrinkles on the lap hold the grit just fine.
Do not ever pull the lap all the way out until you are through with that lap and ready to pour another if needed. A lot of times one lap will do the job. Use a Q tip to apply the grit at the end you want to work on.

Life is good

[Wally]

Thanks...to me doing it this way is better than fire lapping especially in a revolver. No sense enlarging the cyliber throats if one can avoid doing so.

I have a Ruger SS .357 Blackhawk that leads up easily with just about any load save a GC bullet. This lapping method my be just what the Dr ordered.

[jack19512]

Well, was it worth it? I also have a restriction in the same place in my New Vaquero. This gun has never been accurate, but I like everything else about it. So I just ordered the Wheeler kit from Midway and I'm going t try it next weekend. So I'm curious to hear your results. :coffee:







As far as I can tell so far my answer would be yes. After the fire lapping I shot the best groups that I have shot so far. And it was a much worthwhile smaller group than I had been able to achieve before. I had planned on more testing but with deer season and other interruptions upon me I got side tracked.

As honest as I can be about it all of my previous groups were around the 6 inch range or worse at 25 yards before the fire lapping and the first and only groups shot after was a little over 2 inches at 25 yards.

I know some think I am kidding but before fire lapping I would not have thought of ever shooting at a deer from a distance of 25 yards but now I at least feel I stand a chance. I know that even now some of the problems I am having is partly me or my boolits. So I feel things will improve even more. Definately more testing to follow. Of course your results may not mirror mine.

[RegCom7]

As far as I can tell so far my answer would be yes. After the fire lapping I shot the best groups that I have shot so far. And it was a much worthwhile smaller group than I had been able to achieve before. I had planned on more testing but with deer season and other interruptions upon me I got side tracked.

As honest as I can be about it all of my previous groups were around the 6 inch range or worse at 25 yards before the fire lapping and the first and only groups shot after was a little over 2 inches at 25 yards.

I know some think I am kidding but before fire lapping I would not have thought of ever shooting at a deer from a distance of 25 yards but now I at least feel I stand a chance. I know that even now some of the problems I am having is partly me or my boolits. So I feel things will improve even more. Definately more testing to follow. Of course your results may not mirror mine.


Wow, well that's what I would hope for with my gun! I'm curious to know if it enlarged the cylinder throats much? I'm a little concerned about that, because mine seem to be good like they are. I'm wondering if I should try the Q-tip method so I don't enlarge the cylinder throats.

[NVScouter]

My Ruger M77 tang safety heavy barreled 22-250 was a decent 400 yard gun with handloads. The rifle already had been used for 15 years and unknown rounds though it.

I fire lapped it with a kit from somebody and that was a pain. Especialy since one of the rounds you had to reload was a 90g .224 and there was no load data that I could find back then for over a 70g bullet. But now I shoot ground squirrels at 500 all day long and the occasional 650 yarder from my favorite field.

I have put over 1K rounds a year through this rifle with 90%+ loads for the last 6 years and it still shoots like a dream.

I'm sold on lapping and will do my next varmint rig and maybe my 45LCs:bigsmyl2:

For the record at 25 yards my New model Blackhawk w/ 7.75" barrel and my Redhawk (both 45LC) shoot under 2" at 25 yards with 160-200g anythings and cloverleaf with my 255, 265, and 300g reloads as they came from factory.

[Firebricker]

I just tried this today and was surprised how much differance a few shot's can make. The cylinder throat's were suprisingly uniform all six .358 so I used 44man's Q-tip method. This cut the group's in half. I was afraid to try this till I read this thread a coulple of time's. Thank's to everone for more great info. FB

[750k2]

With the Q-tip method did you use lubed or unlubed bullets?
What type of load?
Thanks