New Vaquero

[44MAG#1]

I have just purchased a New Vaquero In 45 Colt. I was going to use a 260 Keith and 24 gr of H110 in it.
Has anyone used this load? If so how was it?

Thanks

[EOD3]

IF the revolver is one of the "new model" variants, you'll need to rethink your load. Both the frame and cylinder are less robust than the original Vaquero. The Ruger specific hot loads are too much for the gun to handle safely.

[44MAG#1]

It is a Ruger New Model New Vaquero for sure.

[EOD3]

I'd recommend you stick with the "Colt SAA" loads. The regular LC loads are nothing to sneeze at, they'll punch a hole clean through Bambi on a broadside shot.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I own a New Vaquero in 45Colt also, and trust me this gun is intended for standard 45Colt loads only! Don’t worry the standard 45Colt loads are by no means wimpy.

[crgaston]

That load is a little hot for a New Vaquero. They need to be limited to no more than about 20KPSI. Try to find a cop of Handloader magazine issue # 246, April 2007 for some 20KPSI loads. Also, Accurate Arms lists some on their website... http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/Acc%20Guide%20v3.3%20version.pdf

H110 may not be your best bet.

[August]

I have just purchased a New Vaquero In 45 Colt. I was going to use a 260 Keith and 24 gr of H110 in it.
Has anyone used this load? If so how was it?

Thanks

Nope. New Model Vaquero is limited to standard, factory-level .45 Colt's loads.

DO NOT attempt that loading in your New Vaquero. Rooger is emphatically clear about this matter.

[geargnasher]

44MAG: DON'T DO THAT! THAT IS A RECIPE FOR A KABOOM IN A NEW VAQUERO!

Stay away from 296/H110 in the new vaquero, that gun is a small frame and you can't load that powder low enough to be safe. 296 has to have near full-house charges (25-50k cup) to burn consistently, which is ok in the stronger rugers and some leverguns to under 25k and much more in the .454 if you are careful and load them hot.

Try HS6, working up to near published max charge weight for SAA style pistols and the 255 grain boolits. I bet you won't be disappointed with accuracy or velocity.

Remember, always work up from starting loads, all guns are different and you can't safely ever just PICK a load and go with it blindfolded. You need to carefully watch for pressure signs with ANY workup.

Gear

[jh45gun]

I am shooting 8 grains of Unique in my Uberti and Encore 45/410 barrel with a 255 grain cast bullet and I feel it is more then enough to kill a whitetail with. This is well within the Colt/Clone range of use and pretty much a standard loading.

[Duck45LC]

anyone have load data for a lasercast 255g swc for new vaquero? can i use load data for any 255swc with these bullets? Oregon trail does not list these for use in the saa clones but i see several listings for 255swc for colts. They are bhn 24 if that makes a difference or is why oregon trail doesn't list them for saa. sorry for the dumb question but i am a newby, eventually i will start casting but tight on funds right now. Have a thousand of these bullets would like to try them so i can tell wether this a style of bullet i would like to have a mold for. One listing for these i found had an oal of 1.665, tried a couple and the wouldn't even chamber in the gun. so if you are kind enough to share some load info for this bullet please include the cartridge oal dimensions.

[countglockula]

Duck, 24 BHN is pretty hard for the velocities you will encounter in a SAA or New Vaquero. The result is that the boolit will fail to upset and seal the bore, so will probably lead badly and not be accurate.

For typical velocities with a 255gr boolit, a 10-12 BHN, or even soft lead, will be more appropriate. Try experimenting with several different boolit styles to find the one that works best.

My cowboy loading for my NV is 5.3gr Trail Boss and a 250gr #1 Cowboy LFP from Missouri Bullets. Pleasant and accurate minimal leading. I also like 7.2gr Unique with this boolit. This load will definitely handle a deer at 50yd or less.

Ron

[leadman]

Duck, check the bullet for in the cylinder thoats. If they will just push thru with a little efort this is good. Dlightly too large is not much of a problem. Too small is a problem as they will probably lead.

If you have some fishing egg sinkers that are large enough, oil the bore and drive one thru with a hardwood dowel to check bore size. Ideally the bore should be smaller than cylinder throat size. Same size is o.k., Bore larger than throats is no good, especially with hard bullets.

These bullets are pretty hard but will probably work if the throats are same size or larger than bore.

[Duck45LC]

thanks for the input guys. leadman: can i slug the bore with a lead .454 round ball, will it deform enough for me to measure?

[Lloyd Smale]

I believe the large framed rugers are also stamped new models too. you need to post a picture of it so we can tell which it is.

[44MAG#1]

It is a New Vaquero. 45/8th inch Would 18.5 gr 2400 and a 250 -260 Keith be okay?
All single actions ater the transfer bar system are new models but this is a New Vaquero. Which is a New Vaquero or a New Model New Vaquero which is not a New Model Vaquero but a New Model New Vaquero.

[Gee_Wizz01]

It is a New Vaquero. 45/8th inch Would 18.5 gr 2400 and a 250 -260 Keith be okay?
All single actions ater the transfer bar system are new models but this is a New Vaquero. Which is a New Vaquero or a New Model New Vaquero which is not a New Model Vaquero but a New Model New Vaquero.

I wouldn't use this load either, I think it's a little over the top for a new new model Vaquero. I am not trying to insult you, but why are you trying to go for the higher velocities? With the "New" Vaquero, I would use a max of 8.5 gr Unique or 6.0 gr of Red Dot, which will get you velocities over 800 fps ( these are safe in my pistol, but you need to work up these up in yours, and my max loads may not be safe in your pistol). These velocities with a 250 to 275 gr bullets are deadly out to at least 50 yds, which is my personal max range with iron sights. To put this in perspective, this load will penetrate a 120 lb hog from nose to tail, punching though the shoulder bones, lungs, guts and shattering the hip joint before exiting! If you need much higher velocities, you might consider getting a Blackhawk or an "Old" model Vaquero.

G

[Wireman134]

That's a "Blackhawk" load there, not for the "New Vaquero"! I got two guys telling me they were told at the gun shop this "New Vaquero" can be loaded hot like the "Blackhawk". There is allot of misinformation out their. Good thing Ruger is not responsible... really.

[countglockula]

Original Vaquero - built on Blackhawk frame, has strength of Blackhawk, 30,000 psi or so

After 96', New Vaquero - built on scaled down frame, similar in dimensions to Colt SAA. Only rated for SAAMI Colt pressures, same as Colts and clones. 14-16,000 PSI Max.

A good safe factory equivalent load with a 250-260gr lead cast bullet is 8gr Unique. My personal 45 Vaquero is happiest at 7.8gr Unique, and it is a fine hunting load for modest distances. Personally, I limit my shots to 30yd to insure a clean kill; further out I use the .357 carbine.

My favorite plinker load is lighter but very accurate; 7.2 gr Unique.

I suggest you start at about 6.5 gr Unique and work upwards about .2 gr at a time until you find the sweet spot. You will know it because the groups will tighten up noticeably.

Good luck and enjoy your new Vaquero!

Ron

[44MAG#1]

What about the 18.5 gr 2400 and the 250-260 gr Keith?
I would say the load that blew that Blackhawk was an over Blackhawk load.

[Wireman134]

Over "New Vaquero" load will do the same to a "New Vaquero" no'? Read this article

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_175_29/ai_n13466563/?tag=content;col1



Ruger “New” Vaquero” comparison to Blackhawk’s


OK, some history:

Ruger's first centerfire gun of any sort was the '55 Blackhawk. It was in most respects a "Colt SAA near-clone"...metalurgy was maybe a slight improvement, coil springs were added, other than that...

Ruger got ahold of some scrap 44Mag development brass and rushed a 44Mag gun into production *ahead* of S&W by a few months. That gun was the '55 frame beefed up very slightly. It wasn't strong enough for the caliber - cylinder wall thickness was one issue, frame strength another. The "SuperBlackHawk" on a bigger frame very rapidly came out for the 44Mag; that was what the "New Model" of '73 was based on (with transfer bar of course) and when bored even bigger to 45LC (which Ruger didn't support AT ALL until 1973) proved capable of the 34,000ish psi loads that BuffBore and others ship today.

The '55 frame died out in 1973, and came back yesterday (literally). The 45LC on the '55/357 frame is a brand new development. If that frame couldn't take 44Mag, then the cylinder wall thickness in 45LC will be even worse. The heaviest of the BuffBore loads could very well grenade this gun; at a minimum, wear will be really, really bad...BuffBore sells ammo 50 to a box, it may not survive all 50 without shaking itself apart.

[bbs70]

I bought a New Vaquero 1 1/2 years ago.
Good gun if you stay within standard Saa loads.

Recommended max oal for bullets in the New Vaquero is 1.600 max.
Anything over that will not let the cylinder turn.

I load 250 and 255 grain cast bullets.
I've tried 10 different powders and weights and found 10 grains of hs-6 to be the most accurate in my New Vaquero and in my New model Blackhawk.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Do yourself a favor and work up a load...don't try to go to the top end to start.....and yes the New Vaqero will go BOOM with hot loads....it is best shot with Loads that work in orginal colt saa's.....your body will thank you.

[Bucks Owin]

Ruger “New” Vaquero” comparison to Blackhawk’s


OK, some history:


Ruger got ahold of some scrap 44Mag development brass and rushed a 44Mag gun into production *ahead* of S&W by a few months. That gun was the '55 frame beefed up very slightly. It wasn't strong enough for the caliber - cylinder wall thickness was one issue, frame strength another. The "SuperBlackHawk" on a bigger frame very rapidly came out for the 44Mag; that was what the "New Model" of '73 was based on (with transfer bar of course) and when bored even bigger to 45LC (which Ruger didn't support AT ALL until 1973) proved capable of the 34,000ish psi loads that BuffBore and others ship today.

The '55 frame died out in 1973, and came back yesterday (literally). The 45LC on the '55/357 frame is a brand new development. If that frame couldn't take 44Mag, then the cylinder wall thickness in 45LC will be even worse. The heaviest of the BuffBore loads could very well grenade this gun; at a minimum, wear will be really, really bad...BuffBore sells ammo 50 to a box, it may not survive all 50 without shaking itself apart. I think you need to study your Ruger history a little more amigo. The early "Flattop" Blackhawk in .44 mag, (see avatar, 1960 model) fluted cylinder and all, can certainly handle any .44 SAAMI load out there, though most of us don't beat them up with redline loads. That model was superceded by the "Old Model" Blackhawk. (Or "3 screw" as some call them) This frame has the protective "ears" on the rear sight. It was, BTW, chambered in .45 Colt. THAT is the model that had a transfer bar added and became the "New Model" Blackhawk of 1973...Furthermore, as to frame strength, every BH large frame, OM or NM, "Super" or not, is identical. (BTW, some Linebaugh cartridges put a thrust of FIVE TONS on this frame, more than a .458 Win Mag develops, with no stretch whatsoever..) If you think the "small" Old Model .357 frame is "weak", remember all the coversions to .44 Spl being done to them, where folks play "Elmer Revisited" and stoke them up to far more than .45 Colt SAAMI pressure...Finally, IMO, even the original .357 Blackhawk FT is certainly a much stronger sixgun than any Colt SAA, past or present....;-)

[Wireman134]

I think you need to study your Ruger history a little more amigo. The early "Flattop" Blackhawk in .44 mag, (see avatar, 1960 model) fluted cylinder and all, can certainly handle any .44 SAAMI load out there, though most of us don't beat them up with redline loads. That model was superceded by the "Old Model" Blackhawk. (Or "3 screw" as some call them) This frame has the protective "ears" on the rear sight. It was, BTW, chambered in .45 Colt. THAT is the model that had a transfer bar added and became the "New Model" Blackhawk of 1973...Furthermore, as to frame strength, every BH large frame, OM or NM, "Super" or not, is identical. (BTW, some Linebaugh cartridges put a thrust of FIVE TONS on this frame, more than a .458 Win Mag develops, with no stretch whatsoever..) If you think the "small" Old Model .357 frame is "weak", remember all the coversions to .44 Spl being done to them, where folks play "Elmer Revisited" and stoke them up to far more than .45 Colt SAAMI pressure...Finally, IMO, even the original .357 Blackhawk FT is certainly a much stronger sixgun than any Colt SAA, past or present....;-)



Smaller frame, smaller cylinder = lower pressure, agree. Large "Blackhawk" frame, yes same as the Super in the late 50's and larger cylinder = higher pressure, agree. Linebaugh grenade d a .45 Colt "Blackhawk" cylinder at around 60,000 psi. Maybe the "New Vaquero" cylinder will let loose at 40,000 psi., eh. Maybe more, ok... Hell the .45 "Blackhawk" has been loaded hotter than 32,000 psi.. So why not buy a Colt SAA clone "New Vaquero" to hot rod and load it to 30,000+ psi. Not what I would do to that little pistol, IMO.:p

[Bucks Owin]

Smaller frame, smaller cylinder = lower pressure, agree. Large "Blackhawk" frame, yes same as the Super in the late 50's and larger cylinder = higher pressure, agree. Linebaugh grenade d a .45 Colt "Blackhawk" cylinder at around 60,000 psi. Maybe the "New Vaquero" cylinder will let loose at 40,000 psi., eh. Maybe more, ok... Hell the .45 "Blackhawk" has been loaded hotter than 32,000 psi.. So why not buy a Colt SAA clone "New Vaquero" to hot rod and load it to 30,000+ psi. Not what I would do to that little pistol, IMO.:p There is no such thing as a 50's Flattop "Super" Blackhawk. They are simply "Ruger .44 mag Blackhawk" This is the gun that Ruger originally built for the .44 mag. that was readily available before the M29 S&W and has a fluted cylinder.... Linebaugh TESTED (not "grenaded") .45 Colt BH's (along with HP White Laboratories) to failing point and found to be about 65K, or 80% of SBH's 80K. That leaves 100% safety margin at 32K. The Vaquero is not a "Colt clone" other than it is a SA sixgun, it is pure Ruger in design. The "clones" are mainly Italian....(Including the USFA whose Italian parts are ASSEMBLED "under the blue dome") But, you are right about the later Vaquero, it's NOT the sixgun to feed Linebaugh level loads....Picture: Flattop .44 mag, 10" barrel...http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/BucksOwin/Flatt001.jpg