Expertise needed on new single action 45 Colt.

[Changeling]

This is my first post so don't resize me to badly.

I'm not new to guns and will understand practically everything you guys have to say.

I want to get a new 45 Colt caliber Ruger Black Hawk or a custom (5 1/2 to 6" barrel) of the same depending on the best way to go for a great shooting pistol. I tried the Bowen and other custom makers but there prices are literally through the roof.
I do not shoot in competition, it's just that when I plan a project I absolutely want to do it as best I can, thats just the way I am.
I want it set up for "cast only" and plan on using LBT type bullets in 260 to 300 or so grains.

So I guess what I'm asking is for advise/opinions on witch way to go in todays market and what can I expect.

[MT Gianni]

The best generally costs a lot. Rugers are the starters for many custom revolvers. You should not expect an out of the box one to run with a Porche. Check the cylinder throats for uniformity and size. You may be better off with an out of the box Freedom. Do you consider long range to be 25 yards or 350 yards? Do you want grips that look good or that fit good? I like my Blackhawk but I have no idea whose hands it was designed for.

[9.3X62AL]

Ruger's Bisley grip works a LOT better for me than the SAA plow-handle type profile if a caliber is going to recoil vigorously. I have a BisHawk in 45 Colt x 7.5", made c. 1996-7. It featured that era's narrow throats (.448"-.449") and somewhat generous chamber dimensions.

My fixes were to open the throats to .453" and to partial-full-length-size the fired brass, about 2/3 down from the case mouth. I seat a Keith-type SWC that has a slight 'interference fit' with the chamber throat. Between the case's rear portion supporting the back end of the case, and the boolit's front drive band supporting the front end--the cartridge is centered as best possible in the loose chamber. This works as well with the Lyman #452460 target boolit, seated out a bit. After 30-50 rounds, the throats start getting balky with the boolit front drive bands--kinda like 22 LR chambers in D/A revolvers. The fix is the same for both--brush 'em out some.

[August]

Larry Crow, Jim Finch (Longhunter), and Gary Reeder do some amazing things with Roogers for reasonable prices.

There are regularly dimensional issues with Roogers, particularly in the areas of cylinder throat and breech end of barrel. A good smith will start by making sure the fundamentals are correct and, then, customize to your heart's content.

I've come to the opinion that gun smithing is always inexpensive for what you get.

[targetshootr]

You'll probably own more than one 45 before you settle on a favorite and even that may not do it. It's better to try someone else's gun before you decide. Some indoor ranges may rent them out.

[BoolitBill]

I am not sure exactly what it is that you want as an end product. I have a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt , with an extra cylinder for 45 ACP and I love it. It shoots better than I can with either cylinder. I never saw a need to customize it as it shoots so good for me out of the box. I might change the grips but that would be all I would do to it. If it was me I would buy a Blackhawk and spend the extra money on making a bunch of ammo to practice with.

[Art in Colorado]

Have a friend who dabbles in gun smithing. He will not do any thing he feels he can't handel. He has worked on my S&W's, Rugers and Sigs with outstanding results. He took my SS Bisley Ruger 45 Colt and first did an action job that gave it a 2 Lb trigger with no creep. He sluged the barrel to determine demensions and then reamed the cylinder throats accordingly. He re-cut the forcing cone for cast bullets and the charge was $65.00. This Ruger is not as accurate as my Freedom Arms 41 Mag from a bench but shooting it on my own two feet it is the easiest to hit with then any of my six guns which I have a few of. I am sure there are many out there who can do this. The trick is finding one who has the knowledge and tools but also knows his limitations. I am fortunate to have found one. Good luck.

Regards
Art

[Catshooter]

Another thought is: what level of loading are you wanting to do? Big difference between 850 and 1300 fps. That can have quite a bearing on which sixgun you buy? Have fun!


Cat

[DanWalker]

Here's what I did.
I bought a 5.5" NMBH a few years ago. I sent it off and had cylindersmith.com open the chamber throats. I then installed a belt mtn basepin. Last year I sent it off to Bob Munden to have him do a trigger and action job on it.
I can now hold fist sized groups at 50 yards, from a sitting position. Bowling pins at 100 are a fun challenge, and I went 5 for 5 on clay targets set 100 yards away on a hillside. (with a witness)
I've killed quite a few critters, big and small with it, and it's always on my belt when I'm in the backcountry. I feed it everything from 320 grain hammer boolits at 1250fps, (for peace of mind in grizzly country), to 454 roundballs(bunny busters and grouse getters)
My number one carry load is a 454424SWC HP loaded over 6.5 grains of Red Dot. It has proven wonderfully accurate and is mild mannered enough for sustained shooting, yet still packs a whallop. I hunt medium game,(deer and antelope) with the same boolit, loaded over 18.5 grains of 2400.
The versatility of the 45 colt cartridge, coupled with the OUTSTANDING accuracy of this gun is the SOLE reason I don't own a Freedom Arms revolver.

[Dale53]

Chageling;
Get a Ruger BlackHawk or Bisley Blackhawk (I just bought a SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible). It needed a trigger job and the ACP cylinder needs reamed to .4525".

I did the work myself. A trigger job is normally needed but not always.

A little work and the Ruger is a FINE revolver with excellent accuracy and is "hell for stout". You will NOT wear it out.

I have large hands and do not particularly like the original Colt style grip. However, the BlackHawk can be fitted with a set of Pachmayr grips and they fit me VERY well. I am a PERFORMANCE, not an APPEARANCE kind of guy ("Function before Form everytime, every place").

YMMV
Dale53

[9.3X62AL]

The versatility of the 45 colt cartridge, coupled with the OUTSTANDING accuracy of this gun is the SOLE reason I don't own a Freedom Arms revolver.

What Dan said, to add-on to my earlier comments.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I`m down to only 2 Rugers Blackhawks in .45 LC. One is a 7 1/2" model that I did a trigger job on and then mounted a 2 1/2X scope on and Hogue grips. I have a Jacketed load that is dead on at 100yds and a cast load for other critters or targets. My other Ruger is a 5 1/2" Blackhawk convertable cylinder .45 acp model. I did a trigger job and made a set of my own custom burl walnut grips that are fit to my paws. This is my general carry piece when hunting with a rifle or just poking around in the back of my place. I have worked up a load using the RCBS 255 Gr. mold bullet for a point of aim at 35 yds strike.Robert

[44man]

Here's what I did.
I bought a 5.5" NMBH a few years ago. I sent it off and had cylindersmith.com open the chamber throats. I then installed a belt mtn basepin. Last year I sent it off to Bob Munden to have him do a trigger and action job on it.
I can now hold fist sized groups at 50 yards, from a sitting position. Bowling pins at 100 are a fun challenge, and I went 5 for 5 on clay targets set 100 yards away on a hillside. (with a witness)
I've killed quite a few critters, big and small with it, and it's always on my belt when I'm in the backcountry. I feed it everything from 320 grain hammer boolits at 1250fps, (for peace of mind in grizzly country), to 454 roundballs(bunny busters and grouse getters)
My number one carry load is a 454424SWC HP loaded over 6.5 grains of Red Dot. It has proven wonderfully accurate and is mild mannered enough for sustained shooting, yet still packs a whallop. I hunt medium game,(deer and antelope) with the same boolit, loaded over 18.5 grains of 2400.
The versatility of the 45 colt cartridge, coupled with the OUTSTANDING accuracy of this gun is the SOLE reason I don't own a Freedom Arms revolver.
Makes me feel good when someone else shoots far and appreciates what a revolver can do.
I am starting to slip a little, sitting in a stand with my bow this morning, I noticed my right eye would not focus on a log at about 100 yards. Even my red dots are starting to look like stars instead of dots. Time for new glasses again and I will have to wear them hunting.
I also agree with a BH even if it takes a little work on the trigger or throats. I have seen some VERY expensive guns here that will not shoot any better.
Ruger triggers are SO easy to make creep free and down to 2#, takes longer to take the gun apart then to fix the trigger.

[Changeling]

Here's what I did.
I bought a 5.5" NMBH a few years ago. I sent it off and had cylindersmith.com open the chamber throats. I then installed a belt mtn basepin. Last year I sent it off to Bob Munden to have him do a trigger and action job on it.
I can now hold fist sized groups at 50 yards, from a sitting position. Bowling pins at 100 are a fun challenge, and I went 5 for 5 on clay targets set 100 yards away on a hillside. (with a witness)
I've killed quite a few critters, big and small with it, and it's always on my belt when I'm in the backcountry. I feed it everything from 320 grain hammer boolits at 1250fps, (for peace of mind in grizzly country), to 454 roundballs(bunny busters and grouse getters)
My number one carry load is a 454424SWC HP loaded over 6.5 grains of Red Dot. It has proven wonderfully accurate and is mild mannered enough for sustained shooting, yet still packs a whallop. I hunt medium game,(deer and antelope) with the same boolit, loaded over 18.5 grains of 2400.
The versatility of the 45 colt cartridge, coupled with the OUTSTANDING accuracy of this gun is the SOLE reason I don't own a Freedom Arms revolver.


First off I want to thank all you guys for your input, seems to me there is some good advise here and some surprises.

Dan Walker you seem to be on the same track I am except for the looks of the gun. I have a small supply of exhibition grade Coco Bolo left over from having a custom "Bow" made and intend to either make or have made a set of grips for the new revolver regardless of what it comes with, this stuff is AWESOME. I really enjoy just looking at at a really nice gun knowing that it shoots as well as it looks. However you are exactly right, accuracy is the first order of business or its just a pretty face with no sole! I had one of those to, LOL!

One thing that confused me is some of you guys don't seem to think much of the FA's, would you mind expounding on that? I thought they were supposed to be excellent, I was even considering a model 97.

That bullet you use as your carry load, is that the Keith 260gr?

44Man, sorry to hear about your eyes. I was having problems seeing things far off and my doctor who is a vitamin nut told me to try taking a vitamin called "Lutein". It is the main substance in the Macula of the eye. I tried it and things cleared up for me at distance and my eyes quit having that tired feeling all the time. It doesn't work for everyone but for $16.00 at Sams it's worth a try.
Now I'm a vitamin nut, LOL.


Someone asked me what I consider long range with a revolver, that is somewhat of a variable, but basically I try to keep all shots at large game under 100 yds with revolvers and preferably 10 feet and yes I have shot a deer at 10 feet.

Almost forgot, where is a good place to order a new Black Hawk in 45 at. I live in Maryland and the only local guy here thinks that you're supposed to double the manufacturers suggested price on everything, I'm no kidding!

[Changeling]

Here's what I did.
I bought a 5.5" NMBH a few years ago. I sent it off and had cylindersmith.com open the chamber throats. I then installed a belt mtn basepin. Last year I sent it off to Bob Munden to have him do a trigger and action job on it.
I can now hold fist sized groups at 50 yards, from a sitting position. Bowling pins at 100 are a fun challenge, and I went 5 for 5 on clay targets set 100 yards away on a hillside. (with a witness)
I've killed quite a few critters, big and small with it, and it's always on my belt when I'm in the backcountry. I feed it everything from 320 grain hammer boolits at 1250fps, (for peace of mind in grizzly country), to 454 roundballs(bunny busters and grouse getters)
My number one carry load is a 454424SWC HP loaded over 6.5 grains of Red Dot. It has proven wonderfully accurate and is mild mannered enough for sustained shooting, yet still packs a whallop. I hunt medium game,(deer and antelope) with the same boolit, loaded over 18.5 grains of 2400.
The versatility of the 45 colt cartridge, coupled with the OUTSTANDING accuracy of this gun is the SOLE reason I don't own a Freedom Arms revolver.


First off I want to thank all you guys for your input, seems to me there is some good advise here and some surprises.

Dan Walker you seem to be on the same track I am except for the looks of the gun. I have a small supply of exhibition grade Coco Bolo left over from having a custom "Bow" made and intend to either make or have made a set of grips for the new revolver regardless of what it comes with, this stuff is AWESOME. I really enjoy just looking at at a really nice gun knowing that it shoots as well as it looks. However you are exactly right, accuracy is the first order of business or its just a pretty face with no sole! I had one of those to, LOL!

One thing that confused me is some of you guys don't seem to think much of the FA's, would you mind expounding on that? I thought they were supposed to be excellent, I was even considering a model 97.

That bullet you use as your carry load, is that the Keith 260gr?

44Man, sorry to hear about your eyes. I was having problems seeing things far off and my doctor who is a vitamin nut told me to try taking a vitamin called "Lutein". It is the main substance in the Macula of the eye. I tried it and things cleared up for me at distance and my eyes quit having that tired feeling all the time. It doesn't work for everyone but for $16.00 at Sams it's worth a try.
Now I'm a vitamin nut, LOL.


Someone asked me what I consider long range with a revolver, that is somewhat of a variable, but basically I try to keep all shots at large game under 100 yds with revolvers and preferably 10 feet and yes I have shot a deer at 10 feet.

[jack19512]

I live in Maryland and the only local guy here thinks that you're supposed to double the manufacturers suggested price on everything, I'm no kidding!






The guy that owns my local gun shop much own your local shop too. :D

[Bucks Owin]

I'd love to own a new Model 83 .500 WE but my piggy bank isn't up to it. However used Field Model FA .454 Casulls (which can also fire .45 Colt) show up at "Gunbroker" and other auctions in the $1200 range. Might be a way to go. They don't "wear out" from shooting......( just negligence) That said, I've loved every Ruger Blackhawk I've ever owned. A couple have been real tackdrivers "as is" and the others were easily made that way. They are fine firearms in their own right.....FWIW, Dennis

[targetshootr]

One thing that confused me is some of you guys don't seem to think much of the FA's, would you mind expounding on that? I thought they were supposed to be excellent, I was even considering a model 97.


Nice gun made by nice people but they will nickel-and-dime you to death. As opposed to less expensive gun-makers who repair their guns at little or no cost to the owner.

[jandbn]

Changeling,

Although gunbroker.com is not the only place to "watch" prices, I would suggest you visit there and view what is available. I recently bought a Bisley, but from another online site I had been watching. If you do buy online, you won't get to touch and feel until it arrives. Not always a good thing.

Also keep in mind that there would be shipping and probably transfer fees involved. Not sure what Maryland's firearms restrictions are, so make sure you are fully aware of what is involved with a transfer. And make sure you find and FFL on your end that is willing to make the transfer. The FFL I used normally would not do a transfer on a new firearm. But seeing as how mine was out of production and he couldn't get one from the factory to sell to me new, he agreed to do the transfer. All said and done, I paid $20 for shipping to my FFL and a $20 fee to my FFL for the transfer. gunbroker.com also has a webpage (http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp) that may be able to help you locate another FFL which is to your liking.

My vote is a Ruger too!

[DanWalker]

First off I want to thank all you guys for your input, seems to me there is some good advise here and some surprises.

Dan Walker you seem to be on the same track I am except for the looks of the gun. I have a small supply of exhibition grade Coco Bolo left over from having a custom "Bow" made and intend to either make or have made a set of grips for the new revolver regardless of what it comes with, this stuff is AWESOME. I really enjoy just looking at at a really nice gun knowing that it shoots as well as it looks. However you are exactly right, accuracy is the first order of business or its just a pretty face with no sole! I had one of those to, LOL!

One thing that confused me is some of you guys don't seem to think much of the FA's, would you mind expounding on that? I thought they were supposed to be excellent, I was even considering a model 97.

That bullet you use as your carry load, is that the Keith 260gr?


Someone asked me what I consider long range with a revolver, that is somewhat of a variable, but basically I try to keep all shots at large game under 100 yds with revolvers and preferably 10 feet and yes I have shot a deer at 10 feet.

Thanks for the kind words.
If you're looking for someone to carve you some nice grips out of that cocobolo, I'd suggest sending Dustin linebaugh an email. I've seen some of his work, and it is really nice.

I sure didn't mean to sound like I was bad mouthing Freedom Arms. I think they build the best revolvers on the planet. I've lusted after them for years, but just can't justify the cost of purchasing one. I sincerely doubt that I could shoot one of their masterpieces any more accurately than my Ruger workhorse.

Yes, the load I use is the keith SWC cast from a mould that I had a cramer HP conversion done to. My boolits have a faceted cavity, shaped like an inverted pyramid. so far, expansion has been quite positive.

[Bucks Owin]

Thanks for the kind words.
I sure didn't mean to sound like I was bad mouthing Freedom Arms. I think they build the best revolvers on the planet. I've lusted after them for years, but just can't justify the cost of purchasing one. I sincerely doubt that I could shoot one of their masterpieces any more accurately than my Ruger workhorse.



Well said. My sentiments exactly. Those I've seen and handled are masterpieces of precision and I expect a Freedom Arms revolver is worth every nickle. Wish I had enough nickles!....Dennis (BTW, having never dealt with FA, I'm curious about targetshootr's statement "they will nickle and dime you to death".....???

[Changeling]

Well said. My sentiments exactly. Those I've seen and handled are masterpieces of precision and I expect a Freedom Arms revolver is worth every nickle. Wish I had enough nickles!....Dennis (BTW, having never dealt with FA, I'm curious about targetshootr's statement "they will nickle and dime you to death".....???



I think what targetshooter was talking about is that every thing you have them do has an extremely high price connected with it, at least that is what I keep hearing.

One question about the FA 97 in 45 I am interested in , is the cylinder length. Is it shorter than the Ruger's or what, I can't seem to get an answer from them.

The other question is can the FA 97 45 be loaded to the same levels as the Ruger SA. This relates to the other question.

[targetshootr]

I'm curious about targetshootr's statement "they will nickle and dime you to death".....???

If you find a good deal on an older gun and say, the firing pin breaks... it's gonna make your wallet cry.

[jh45gun]

Nice gun made by nice people but they will nickel-and-dime you to death. .

Since there has been so many post here about Rugers and their need to be made to shoot well (triggers and cylinder issues, forceing cones ect) I would say they are a candidate for nickle and dimeing you to death.

[DanWalker]

Since there has been so many post here about Rugers and their need to be made to shoot well (triggers and cylinder issues, forceing cones ect) I would say they are a candidate for nickle and dimeing you to death.

Cylindersmith.com charged m 35 bucks
Bob Munden charged me 185
The gun cost around 350 when I bought it. Total investment is around 600 bucks.

[targetshootr]

Since there has been so many post here about Rugers and their need to be made to shoot well (triggers and cylinder issues, forceing cones ect) I would say they are a candidate for nickle and dimeing you to death.

I don't remember Ruger ever charging me to repair one of my guns. The last two guns involved soldering the ejector stud, installing a steel Accro rear sight, installing a higher front blade, rebluing the gun, and shipping was also free.

[jh45gun]

I don't remember Ruger ever charging me to repair one of my guns. The last two guns involved soldering the ejector stud, installing a steel Accro rear sight, installing a higher front blade, rebluing the gun, and shipping was also free.


SO how many guns have you had to have repaired?

[targetshootr]

SO how many guns have you had to have repaired?

Those two are old model 44 mag flat tops that both lost the ejector studs and I think I sent one other gun back, out of the dozens of Rugers I own. Not bad, eh. And the total on all those repairs is still less than a single FA firing pin.

[NickSS]

I guess I am not as picky as I have never had a Ruger repaired or customized. About the only thing I ever did was order a new cylinder pin locking cross bolt for a Super Black hawk. As for accuracy they seem to shoot as good as I can hold them. I regularly blow out the X and 10 ring at 25 yards with most of my revolvers. My Center fire pistols open up a bit more to include the 9 riing.

[jack19512]

I wish I could brag about the last Ruger I sent in for repair and got it back in almost 3 months but I can't. One of the issues was a very tight spot where the barrel screws into the frame. When I sent the revolver back I included a drawing and the slug I used to slug the barrel with and a detailed description of the problem.

They said they replaced the barrel but wouldn't you know the revolver still has that extremely tight spot just like the old barrel did and I can't get this SBH 44 mag to shoot worth a ****. If I can get the tight spot out it will probably shoot good, notice I said if. :mad:

The tight spot is so bad that after pushing the slug through the barrel several times it is extremely easy to push the slug through the barrel but when it gets to that one spot you still have to just about use a hammer to knock it the rest of the way through. I am to the point I might call Ruger and see about sending it back again or just get rid of it. I have my 454 SRH that does good what do I need a 44 mag for anyway? [smilie=b:

[jh45gun]

Those two are old model 44 mag flat tops that both lost the ejector studs and I think I sent one other gun back, out of the dozens of Rugers I own. Not bad, eh. And the total on all those repairs is still less than a single FA firing pin.

Guess your luckier than I. I have had two Ruger Single Sixes and Two 44 Mag Blackhawks. No complaints on the earlier models of each which I wish I would have kept as they did work and shoot fine. Like a dummy back then I traded them off because I wanted something else and could not afford it unless I made a trade. (The Grass is always greener syndrome) Later I missed them and decided to replace both. A stainless Single Six and an other Blackhawk. Both of those shot for **** so I traded them off vowing never to buy an other Ruger or if I did I would have to shoot it first if it was a used one. I never would again buy a new one. I have had several of the 22 auto pistols and while most of them were decent I had a clunker in one of those too. I also have had several 10/22s and while they never malfunction other 22's are more accurate which is why there is a cottage industry making these guns what they should be from the factory until even Ruger had to come up with one. Ruger could do better but won't or don't care with only the bottom line important.