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7br
04-28-2006, 08:04 AM
I'll open a can of worms here in hopes of getting a little edjumacation. Short question is: What is the difference between small rifle primers and small pistol primers? Second question is which should I use for a 10in .22 hornet for a T/C contender.

I just am starting to work up a load. I have 100rnds of Winchester brass and have tried both IMR4227 and WW231 with Remington 7 1/2 small rifle primers with the RCBS 55gr bullets. Shooting was off of bags at 100yards. Groups were about 2in wide which is on par with my ablity, but were about 5in high.

Factors to consider. Do the primers contribute to vertical stringing? I have been known to have problems with a consistant grip when shooting from a bench with a pistol. These were the first rounds to go down the barrel.

fourarmed
04-28-2006, 12:01 PM
Mark, my opinion on the hornet is you want the mildest primer you can get. We have been using Federal small pistol with 9.5 gr. 4227 and a 50 gr. bullet for field pistol.

Bullshop
04-28-2006, 12:40 PM
All the realy small casses seem to be very sensitive to primers. I am not shure if the ammount or mixture of compound is different between rifle and pistal primers but I am absolutely certain that one big difference is the hardness or thickness of the cup.
I have a Cooper mod#37 rifle in 22 CCM. This rifle has minimal firing pin energy and will only work with a very soft cup. Hard cups will misfire. There are only two primers that will not give misfires, the Fed #100 SP, and the Rem #1 1/2 SP.
Also as mentioned in my experiance with the hornet the milder primers work best. Most of my hornet loads use the Fed #100. Please note that I am not talking about max loads with jacketed bullets. For those you may have to use a harder cup to contain pressure. I shoot only cast and do not push pressure to the point that brass streches excessivly.
I believe one reason for better performance with soft cup small pistal primers is most hornet rifles like my Cooper rifle have very minimal firing pin energy.
I have seen good loads give up to 500 fps extream velocity spreads from other larger caliber rifles in extream cold temps. The cold temp will solidifie any liquid lube on the firing pin spring and at some point cause total misfires.
With the drag on the firing pin and extreamly inconsistant energy transfer to the primer you get extream ignition variation and high velocity spreads. This is one reason I think the hornet is more consistant with soft cup primers, more uniform ignition. That and the fact that its powder volume and powder type does not require a long flame duration or intencity.
Just my thoughts, not neccessarily fact.
BIC/BS

Larry Gibson
04-28-2006, 01:10 PM
Mark, my opinion on the hornet is you want the mildest primer you can get. We have been using Federal small pistol with 9.5 gr. 4227 and a 50 gr. bullet for field pistol.

Mark

Fourarmed has the load. I use a Lyman 225415 in my 10" Contender .22H. With a case that small (and several others) you you want a primer with minimal brissance (SP?). The SR primers always give larger estreme spreads of velocities in the .22H that regular SP primers. That translates to vertical spread at 100 yards as you indicate.

Larry Gibson

Greg
04-28-2006, 09:54 PM
7br

I‘ve too found that small pistol primers are better in a small case.

I shot a 10" 22 k-Hornet. Powders that I tried with varying success have been H335, SR 4759, and the bast tried so far, Reloader 7. Moulds that I’ve used in the 10" Contender, are the Lyman 225462, and 225415. The 225415 fits my barrel better, the ‘462 would seat into the lands for a ways and then seat into the case to what I think is to different seating depths. I kept getting flyers and I quit using this mould / barrel combo.

So in my sixth year of campaigning a 10" 22 k-Hornet the load that I’ve settled on is;

neck sized Winchester brass; belled with a Lyman ‘M’ die

Winchester Small Pistol primer;

10.7 grains Reloader 7;

Lyman 225415 cast of air cooled wheel weights, and weight sorted...be ruthless ! With an oal to seat into the lands, sized ½ thousandths under the throat diameter.


I’m thinking I shot close to 500 rounds of ammo in a scope’d Contender before I got even close to being able to say that I had hope of hitting what I aimed at with any consistency . ymmv

7br
04-28-2006, 10:59 PM
Thanks for all of the replies. Look like a trip to gander mountain or to Powder Valley. Will have to see when I can shake loose.

Next question. What kind of caselife can I expect?

Slowpoke
04-28-2006, 11:18 PM
[QUOTE=7br>>>Next question. What kind of caselife can I expect?>>>

I use the Lee collet dies, and I have yet to loose my first case, sort of like the energizer bunny they keep going and going.

good luck

D.Mack
04-29-2006, 02:57 AM
7br ... Bullshop hit it on firing pin energy in the t/c, use the small pistol for more consistent results. And yes harder primers (cup thickness ) will cause vertical stringing, with a weak firing pin hit. As will weak locking lug springs in heavy recoiling loads.

One other question is in order, what twist does your barrell have? The older barrells have a slow twist( 1in 14 or 1in 16), while the newer ones have a 1 in 10 twist. If you have an older one, getting 50 gr. to shoot requires max loads, and anything heavier probably wont. I have the older barrel, it is a tack driver, but I have to limit my loads to 46 gr. or less. DM

ooops just noticed you said groups were off bags, which can also add to verticle stringing, if any part of the barrell or forearm touches the bags. Next time try it with your wrists on the bags. DM

TCLouis
04-29-2006, 03:41 PM
Larry G what are you using with that bullet?

7br
05-08-2006, 08:29 AM
Got to the range on Friday. All groups were shot with a rest made of PVC pipe and Tasco Pro 2x7 scope set on 7x. I used Federal small pistol match primers and Winchester cases. Bullets were checked with Gator Checks and lubed with Javelina. I only had about 35 of the .225-55 RCBS and 25 of the Lyman 225415 boolets cast.

Using the RCBS projectile, I go a nice, round 2 1/2inch group with 4.0gr of WW 231. 4.5 grains went into a group 1 1/2wide, but 6inch high. Based on my experience with titegroup with cast in the .41mag, I was not looking for good things. 4 of 5 went into a 1 1/2group. Number 5 was 6inches out at 7:00. This will warrent a few more boolets with titegroup.

The groups with the lyman castings were not as promising. I believe I need to cast a couple hundred of each to play with. After sizing, the not so generous lube grooves were even closer to non existant. I didn't see any signs of leading.

I am really enjoying playing with the hornet. Just about as much fun as the Dan Wesson .41

felix
05-08-2006, 09:16 AM
Is there a such thing as small PISTOL match primers? ... felix

Four Fingers of Death
05-08-2006, 11:13 PM
I have an old BRNO Fox which is a minature Mauser action and I don't feel that it lacks in firing pin energy, but I have 100 remington primers *(amongst a swag of others) in my ammo can containing s/r primers. from memory they are match primers. Any difference?

I didn't realise until the other weekend when I went home that I have 3000 Hornady gas checks on the shelf. I gotta get cracking.

What is a good mould to use in the Hornet and 223?

Four Fingers of Death
05-08-2006, 11:14 PM
Whoops, this is the handgun page I'm talking rifles here, sorry about that.

7br
05-09-2006, 08:23 AM
Is there a such thing as small PISTOL match primers? ... felix
Yep. Of course, they might be about the same as the 209 Muzzleloader primers I bought last year. LIke carpetman said, The biggest difference is two cents a primer.

HORNET
05-09-2006, 04:13 PM
felix,
Federal claims that their 100M is a match small pistola primer. Got too many Win. SP's around to spring for any Fed's to try at the moment.:bigsmyl2:

Mick,
Try 225438 or 225415 for Lyman versions. Last I heard, felix and Sundog were planning on some extensive experimentation with all the designs that they can scrounge in many of the .22 CF's if you can wait until they post results. Anything heavier depends on the twist rates and may be problematic in the Hornet ( she's a might touchy at times).[smilie=b: