Bullets oversized from caster

[dej5320]

I'm new to reloading, and recently ordered some cast bullets for 45 colt and 44 mag. I ordered .452 and .430 bullets, and when I received them they miked at .453 and .431. My question is what is an acceptable margin for error on these bullets. If they are offered in increments of .001 wouldn't you expect them to be delivered pretty much exact. The only reason I am asking is that the 45 keiths will not chamber in my blackhawk. I am planning on having the throats reamed this week, but after the reaming i will still have a problem chambering a .453 bullet in a .4525 throat, right? Anyway, I would hate to have to ship back 500 bullets because of .001", but I expected to get what i ordered.

[Bullshop]

I dont think this is the answer you want to hear but you can buy a Lee sizer for a very reasonable price then size the boolits to what you want. Having your own die will solve any further problems in the future with any oversize issues.
It takes me about 30 minutes to run 500 through a Lee sizer so the additional time cost is not that great.
Thats what I would do. I think that would be much better than the rest of your options!
BIC/BS

[dej5320]

I thought about that, don't you have to lube the bullets to run them through the die? Regardless, shouldn't this step have been performed by the caster? I just expected to have bullets that were ready to shoot.

[454PB]

Yes, you should have received what you ordered, and the supplier should make it right. You should first have another handloader with an accurate micrometer measure those diameters. It is unusual for a commercial caster to sell oversized boolits. However, you may want to wait until the cylinder throats are increased. Sometimes the portion of the seated boolit that protrudes into the throat is small enough to allow chambering.

As to lubricating them for downsizing in the Lee die, it takes very little and should not harm the existing lube (which is probably one the very hard, waxy lubes). When I use the Lee sizers, I smear a light dab of my normal resizing lubricant on every third boolit or so.

[9.3X62AL]

The only reason I am asking is that the 45 keiths will not chamber in my blackhawk.

Dej--

Just for clarification.......does this statement mean that 'cartridges with the 45 Keiths seated will not fully chamber'--or 'the bare boolits as purchased won't pass through the throats'?

Also--have you slugged or gaged the throats, and found them to be undersized? You mentioned having them opened up.

[44man]

I'm new to reloading, and recently ordered some cast bullets for 45 colt and 44 mag. I ordered .452 and .430 bullets, and when I received them they miked at .453 and .431. My question is what is an acceptable margin for error on these bullets. If they are offered in increments of .001 wouldn't you expect them to be delivered pretty much exact. The only reason I am asking is that the 45 keiths will not chamber in my blackhawk. I am planning on having the throats reamed this week, but after the reaming i will still have a problem chambering a .453 bullet in a .4525 throat, right? Anyway, I would hate to have to ship back 500 bullets because of .001", but I expected to get what i ordered.
You are so LUCKY to have boolits you can fit. The bane of casters and buyers are boolits too small. Lee dies will fix any fit and can be lapped in 5 minutes for any size.
Once the .45 is reamed is the time to work with it, NOT BEFORE.
I would never send those boolits back because you are in a perfect position for perfection.
Boolits with antimony will expand with age. .001" is nothing.
Actually, I prefer .432" for the .44 but .431" is fine.
Relax, my friend.

[dej5320]

454PB-
I measured them with an accurate micrometer. I measured a lot of them actually...they are very consistent. there is no question as to the bullets' actual size.

9.3X62AL-
The cartridge will not fully chamber. I have slugged the throats...they are undersized.

[dej5320]

Relax? Are my posts coming across as though I am upset? I thought I asked a reasonable question...this was the first time I have purchased bullets. And I understand that I need to ream first, but I didn't want to wait several weeks if I did indeed need to contact the caster. I am not simply complaining about a .001", but if a .431 bullet will not chamber (even after reaming) it is not "fine"...it may be my problem, but a problem nevertheless. That is good info about the antimony expanding...I had no idea.

[Wally]

454PB-
I measured them with an accurate micrometer. I measured a lot of them actually...they are very consistent. there is no question as to the bullets' actual size.

9.3X62AL-
The cartridge will not fully chamber. I have slugged the throats...they are undersized.

Have you tried to chamber factory loaded ammunition? Factory loads (Remington) have bullest sized to .455~.456" and are quite a bit oversized. My Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt has a very large cylinder dimension and they fit with a lot of "slop" (about 0.5mm) when a Factory round is chambered in it. It maybe that yours is much tighter.

[dej5320]

i have shot some winchester factory loads as well as some other handloads. the bullet design actually makes the oversize bullet a problem. the front driving band on the keith bullet is causing the problem. i may end up finding out that i need to shoot a different bullet design.

[Wally]

Ahh----that is the problem. The cylinder chamber throats are too small to allow the front band of the Keith style bullet to enter. A RNF bullet nose would work just fine for you.

I suggest you call the bullet caster and explain the problem, what they should do is give you a mailing label so you can send them back, and have them send you properly sized bullets. Perhaps it might be best to ask for RNF vs. the Keith style. The Keith style have to be jsut right to fit cylinder throats, the RNF don't have to be.

[HamGunner]

It is not the bullet that is too wide, it is the cylinder throats that are cut too short for that style of bullet seated to your seating depth. That size of bullet is probably just what you should get for .4525 throats. You do not want the bullet to fit the throat exactly, but rather a very tight squeeze is best. The caster is right on with his sizes, because if he sent out .452 bullets, too many would say his bullets were not accurate in their guns since most throats are not smaller than .452.

I really doubt that all that many casters have much of a variety of sizes to chose from as it is left up to the shooter to adjust an oversized bullet if necessary. And I really think you should make certain that the brass is trimmed correctly to length and then see if your bullet is then still seated too long. If it is still too long, then you can just seat the bullet slightly deeper into the case until they chamber and slightly crimp at that point or just crimp at the front of the first driving band if recoil requires it.

I have several guns that require a bit of adjustment of seating depth, depending on style of bullet. That is the usual solution rather than sizing the bullet down until it is no longer as accurate as it could be. Let the cylinder throat and then the slightly tighter bore correct the size to their liking and all will be happy. Blackhawks and Keith bullets should love each other.
Of course if seating deeper, the max charges should be reduced accordingly to avoid excessive pressure.

[44man]

Relax? Are my posts coming across as though I am upset? I thought I asked a reasonable question...this was the first time I have purchased bullets. And I understand that I need to ream first, but I didn't want to wait several weeks if I did indeed need to contact the caster. I am not simply complaining about a .001", but if a .431 bullet will not chamber (even after reaming) it is not "fine"...it may be my problem, but a problem nevertheless. That is good info about the antimony expanding...I had no idea.
I hope I didn't sound sarcastic, I did not want to be. Only that you are free to fit the boolits. Yes, you might need to size them.
I was only saying that boolits that are too small are the worst problem.
So please, really, relax a little! You have that box of boolits by the tail and can make them work.
An example for you. I cast my .475 boolits at .476". I lube by hand and push them through a .476" die to remove excess lube. After a few weeks, they measure .478". They still chamber and shoot fantastic. But if they would not chamber, it is simple to run them back through the .476" die.
We work with lead, antimony and tin. What it does is kind of out of our control. We just have to work it to our needs.
Long, long ago I loaded a bunch of shotgun shells for a friend, paper shells, there was no plastic. He stored them in a root cellar and they swelled from moisture. He hollered at me because none would chamber. Was it MY fault?
Perfection is a fleeting thing that we should never expect. Even God did it wrong when he put a mouth on a woman! :drinks:

[Heavy lead]

I hope I didn't sound sarcastic, I did not want to be. Only that you are free to fit the boolits. Yes, you might need to size them.
I was only saying that boolits that are too small are the worst problem.
So please, really, relax a little! You have that box of boolits by the tail and can make them work.
An example for you. I cast my .475 boolits at .476". I lube by hand and push them through a .476" die to remove excess lube. After a few weeks, they measure .478". They still chamber and shoot fantastic. But if they would not chamber, it is simple to run them back through the .476" die.
We work with lead, antimony and tin. What it does is kind of out of our control. We just have to work it to our needs.
Long, long ago I loaded a bunch of shotgun shells for a friend, paper shells, there was no plastic. He stored them in a root cellar and they swelled from moisture. He hollered at me because none would chamber. Was it MY fault?
Perfection is a fleeting thing that we should never expect. Even God did it wrong when he put a mouth on a woman! :drinks:


44man, I believe the vocal cords are the REAL problem!

[crgaston]

Even God did it wrong when he put a mouth on a woman! :drinks:


That's the best saying I've heard all day. You're a brave one!

[44man]

That's the best saying I've heard all day. You're a brave one!
OH, geez, there are some ladies here! But they are SHOOTERS and that makes them different. They won't gripe about a new gun or time spent at the bench.
My wife gets down on me big time if the lawn mower throws grass on the driveway. We have a blower but she will go out with a broom and I can hear her mumble over the noise of the mower!
Duct tape is the answer! [smilie=w:

[9.3X62AL]

Dej--

It sounds to me like the front band has a bit more "interference fit" than Mr. Keith intended in his initial design. I empathize--my Ruger BisHawk x 45 Colt came from the factory with .449" throats, and it didn't shoot worth beans with most .452" boolits. I re-cut the throats to .453" (grooves are .452"), and use .454" boolits--runs GREAT.

I had a similar problem with a Colt Officer Model Target in 38 Special and Lyman #358429. Size the boolits any larger than .358, and the cartridges refused to chamber--the throats hung up the front drive band. 2 choices--either seat deeper and crimp over the front drive band edge, or size smaller. Both worked fine, but deeper seating meant to cut the powder weight a bit and work back up.

[wallenba]

OH, geez, there are some ladies here! But they are SHOOTERS and that makes them different. They won't gripe about a new gun or time spent at the bench.
My wife gets down on me big time if the lawn mower throws grass on the driveway. We have a blower but she will go out with a broom and I can hear her mumble over the noise of the mower!
Duct tape is the answer! [smilie=w:

Yeah...and don't foget they got guns!

[frank505]

lets see, small cylinder throats, like .448 that came on my 3.5 inch old style vaquero and a.451 or .452 groove. how is this the keith bullets fault? open the damn throats to 452 or 453 and enjoy the gun and good designed bullets. it really irritates me that ruger was so sloppy and did not care. at least the new vaqueros are pretty good. maybe they have listened .
my 500L has .5128 throats, when clean(very rare) the throats will accept a .512 Keith bullet for the first five rounds. After that .511 bullets only, and you can feel them seat. it is so accurate it is scary. the chambers are not the usual funnel throat, we had a reamer made to kinda like freedoms chambers and it does seem to work much better than the typical funnel throat. these guns will shoot so very well if you just take some time and work on them and your loads.

[44man]

Ruger always baffled me with the .45 and the small throats. Seems as if most other calibers they make will have over size throats on the average. :confused:

[dej5320]

Well, I guess I will just see what I have after the throats have been reamed. If they still won't chamber I will go from there. I was just curious if receiving bullets .001" over what was ordered was common. Thanks for the replies.