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jandbn
10-18-2009, 01:50 PM
Just finished up the first 40 rounds in my new Bisley .45 Colt SS 5 1/2” using Cast Performance 325 LFNPB, H110 which I have not used before, and WLPs. I am getting powder residue on the chamber walls and wondering what I am doing wrong. 20+ years ago I used to load for .41 and .44 Mags and never had this problem.

Brass is new Starline trimmed to 1.275 and COL of 1.665. I’m using an RCBS carbide sizer and the case is “neck sized” just far enough down from the mouth of the case to allow the boolit’s full base to be gripped by the “neck”. The grease grooves can be seen on the exterior of the case and roll crimp did not allow the boolit to move forward on recoil. Boolit OAL is .825 and crimp groove to nose is .360.

The LFNPB boolit’s base measured .4520. The front driving band above the crimp groove is .4525. Slugged throats on all chambers are .4522-.4523. Barrel to cylinder gap is just shy of .006. Barrel groove is .4509 as it’s smallest. I haven’t slugged each end of the barrel as of yet, just ran a slug all the way through to measure the minimum.

OD of the loaded case at the base and just below the crimp groove of the boolit is .4754. All the chambers measured with a caliper instead of a micrometer were .470. But a new case that is not full length resized, measures .4752 at the extraction groove with a micrometer. That should tell all to use pin gauges to measure ID instead of a caliper! Unfortunately, I don’t have pin gauges. I ‘spose I should slug the chambers too, but I don’t have any lead sinkers at the moment that are large enough.

The 3 loads of H110 I used were 21.0, 21.7, and 22.4. The dies were not changed during the reloading process so COL and crimp are the same for all 3 loads. Recoil on the 21.0 was OK (similar to what I recall years ago of factory 240 grainers in the .44 Mag), but the 21.7 and 22.4 loads were almost uncomfortable. To me, the muzzle blast on the 21.0 load did not sound quite the same as the 21.7 or 22.4 loads. Group sizes were about the same for all 3 loads. It has been way too long since I have shot on a regular basis, so I know the revolver is way more capable than I currently am. 3-shot and 5-shot groups @ 25 yds ranged from 2” to 2 3/4”. I had vertical stringing to start with, but after paying closer attention to grip and barrel rest pressure, groups went more horizontal. So I know I have a lot of shooting to do to shrink groups. Sure wish I could afford a scope and mount for load development.

What I really need to do first is figure out why I am getting powder residue in the chambers. I experienced similar residue using Trail Boss with the same boolit, COL, and primer, but it way worse with the TB. Bullet recovery is all but impossible as I have to shoot at a public range. So checking for gas cutting isn’t possible. There is also a small amount of leading at the end of the barrel, but not in or close to the forcing cone. I would assume factory lube may be the cause at that end as it will wipe out with little effort. There is also a small amount of yellowish burned powder flakes left in the barrel that is reminiscent of 2400 I used to use in the .41.

Snyd
10-18-2009, 05:40 PM
I would fully size the brass so it gets a good tight grip on the bullet, bullet pull is important, a tight roll crimp and magnum primer. I shoot 360gr Cast Performance with 21gr H110 in my Redhawk. I use Starline brass as well for 45 Colt and 454 Casull. I think Starline says to full length size the new brass.

shooting on a shoestring
10-18-2009, 11:08 PM
I think the small yellowish kernals are ash from your powder. I see them with H110, H4227 and 2400 loads in my .45Colt BH. They don't cause any trouble.

Your groups of 2 to 2&3/4 inch at 25yds are good enough shooting in my book. There are folks here that shoot much better, but some that are worse too. It all depends on what you find acceptable. A man never progresses past where he's content.

44man
10-19-2009, 11:46 AM
Yes, case tension on a hard enough boolit to resist sizing when seating.
But H110 and 296 ARE kind of dirty. I would not worry as long as the gun shoots OK. My guns get FILTHY. [smilie=l:

Dframe
10-19-2009, 12:10 PM
I wouldn't worry about it. Some things you may be able to do to mitigate it are:
Clean brass thoroughly
neck size only (as long as your rounds are chambering correctly
Thoroughly clean your chambers, then
before shooting remove all oil from the chambers.
I've used acetone for this and it works great.

machinisttx
10-19-2009, 12:11 PM
If any place around you sells muzzle loader balls, buy some and use them to slug your throats.

jandbn
10-19-2009, 08:31 PM
Snyd: I hadn't heard before to full length resize new brass before but suppose that could be the culprit.

s on a s: I remember 2400 well from 20 years ago with "kernals left in the barrel". This is my first experience with H110. I may have been satisfied with the 2 - 2 3/4" groups, but it is my not having shot revolver for 20+ years and those "flyers" that lets me know I can do better. If I could shoot a revolver half as good as some (44man, StarMetal, and many others), I would would be content. It just that the Bisley is showing me that at this point, it is way more capable than I am.

44man: I know you don't clean your guns to often, but I my first bout with Trail Boss was beyond filthy. I had read it was sometime dirty, but I wasn't expecting the mess I ended up with. I rarely cleaned a Ruger Mk II .22 I used to have and that was bad enough. What I experience with residue on the chamber walls with H110 was reminiscent of the Mk II.

machinisttx: Thanks for the reminder. I always have fishing sinkers on brain from the first time I slugged, so I forgot all about ML balls. Thx!

Snyd
10-19-2009, 09:29 PM
Ya, there was a note in a box of brass I got from them saying to size it. It must have been 45 colt cuz I just remembered that my 454 starline brass I got from a private sale.

jandbn
10-19-2009, 09:52 PM
Snyd,

Now that the brass is once fired, I don't see any reason to full length resize and will continue to neck size. I also bought my Starline brass from a private party, but no note to full length resize. I will keep in mind for the next batch of new brass. What I have now should last for quite a while seeing as how I'm not maxing out the loads... yet. Based on recoil, I'm not sure I really want a 45 Mag! I will know come deer season what performance with 22.4 of H110 will do provided I have a chance for a relatively short shot. Maybe a little further with a rest, but I don't think I'am qualified yet to shoot off-hand more than 20-25 yards at deer, especially when 'buck fever' is on the brain.

44man
10-20-2009, 10:02 AM
Snyd,

Now that the brass is once fired, I don't see any reason to full length resize and will continue to neck size. I also bought my Starline brass from a private party, but no note to full length resize. I will keep in mind for the next batch of new brass. What I have now should last for quite a while seeing as how I'm not maxing out the loads... yet. Based on recoil, I'm not sure I really want a 45 Mag! I will know come deer season what performance with 22.4 of H110 will do provided I have a chance for a relatively short shot. Maybe a little further with a rest, but I don't think I'am qualified yet to shoot off-hand more than 20-25 yards at deer, especially when 'buck fever' is on the brain.
I do a lot of neck sizing too. I am still not sure it is more accurate then FL, seems to be but I have not proved it yet. Anyway, you will only get away with it for a while, then cases get hard to chamber so you will still need to FL once in a while. I am sloppy and get them mixed up, yet groups don't change.
If you guys ever seen how lax I am, you would never figure out how my guns shoot at all.
Some get real anal over case preparation but all I do is make them the same length when new.
The only thing I am sure of is that new brass is not accurate until it has been shot a few times, then there are still a few wild cards in there that will not have even neck tension and throw shots.
I blame almost every flier on the brass, lead hardness is next but I have been too lazy to investigate it more, my lead hardness fliers might still be just the brass.
OOPS, I gave up my secret! :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2: Too laid back and lazy! Ignore the small stuff. Make it fun instead of pulling your hair.

felix
10-20-2009, 11:42 AM
Brass must be perfect in a perfectly chambered gun, otherwise money for the gun is wasted. If you have to index the cases on hand to get a good group, then you have proof something is amiss. The best cases I have used without doubt have been branded as BlackHillsAmmo (BHA) Match. The lots they receive from the manufacturer(s) have to be quality controlled to the hilt to be as good as they are. Other "brands" are hit and miss, and usually 10 or 15 can be found to be of the same quality out of a hundred from the same lot. ... felix