Old revolver -- 32 question

[pmeisel]

My mother in law passed on several years ago. Some time before she passed she gave me her husband's old travel-in-the-truck self defense revolver (he was a car hauler before he passed, over 30 years ago).

At the time there was a lot going on and it got put away in a spare closet and moved with us along with the spare closet stuff.

Got to cleaning that closet today and my wife found it. It's now in my desk drawer and I am wondering what i am going to do with it.

It is an old break-top 5 shot .32 S&W. With it are a few 32 S&W rounds and a box of 32 Auto rounds.

The box is much newer than the revolver, but I am guessing based on looking at the price sticker on the box that it was either bought in the 70s just before he passed, or by my brother-in-law on my mother-in-law's behalf.

The second case is what I am worried about -- he doesn't know much about guns and may have just thought it safe to fire in a 32 S&W.

Perhaps it is, which is what I would like to know.... (I am sure one of you does). The rounds are of identical length, it chambers, and the only difference I can see is that the 32 Auto appears to have a slightly smaller rim diameter.

I don't plan on shooting this much, but I would like an opinion on the safety of firing it at all. It seems to lock up fine.

Thanks in advance.

[theperfessor]

I'm sure somebody here that knows more about this type of gun will help you but they might need a little more information. Is your gun an actual S & W, or some other brand chambered for the .32 S & W cartridge? Is there any way to post a photo?

From my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition the .32 ACP has a .358" rim diameter and a .3375" body diameter at the base, with an overall length of .680".

The .32 S & W has a .378" rim and a .339" body diameter with a .605" length.

Don't have any pressure data to compare the two rounds but I would point out that the Lyman handbook recommends using starting loads for top break revolvers. Their max loads are intended for solid frame revolvers only.

Don't know what pressure level current factory ammo is loaded to.

Given the age of any weapon of this type I would err on the safe side and only use reduced pressure reloads in the proper cartridge for the gun. Or just keep it as a conversation piece and a part of history.

But I'm a cautious guy, it's just my opinion.

[StarMetal]

Not an official SAAMI spec, but the Hodgdon manual shows the top pressure for their 32 acp loads at 15,000 cup. For the 32 S&W they show 9,500 cup. That's quite a difference. To be safe I'd stick with the 32 S&W round and reloads.

Joe

[theperfessor]

Yeah, my old Lyman manual has pressure data for several .32 ACP reloads right at the 15 ksi range but no pressure data at all for .32 S & W loads. Didn't realize the pressure difference was that great. Would DEFINITELY not fire .32 ACP rounds in this gun.

[Gunfixer]

To add to the above
I just went through this with a customer. The gun came in with a "wont fire" complaint. The impact of the hammer will drive the 32acp cases down without igniting the primer.......most times. It doesnt look pretty when they do light. Use 32 S&W ammo

[imashooter2]

SAAMI has the .32 ACP in a .32 S&W in their unsafe combinations list.

http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm

[pmeisel]

Thanks, guys. While you were responding I went out to the shed and got the calipers. It appears the cylinder is stepped at the 32 S&W depth. So I just had to see why a 32 ACP would chamber. It does but it stands out just a little, the space between the cylinder and the thrust plate allows it.

The gun had a full box of 32 ACP with it that must have been purchased some time between 1972 (when that particular store opened) and 1976, plus a few loose rounds. On close inspection four of them were 32 ACP and four were 32 S&W. The mixed ammo suggests to me that he or someone put some 32 ACP through it at one time. (I seem to recall my mother-in-law telling me he got the gun in a swap with a brother or cousin).

As much as I am going to shoot this gun I don't think I will probably reload for it. I'll just track down some factory ammo and barter the 32 ACP to somebody.

I would like to put a cylinder through it to make sure it works, and save it as a combination keepsake/emergency backup/need to carry something really little gun.

Thanks again.

[Bret4207]

Yes, the 32ACP will often fit well enough to fire. It's a makeshift answer, but I've seen it a lot.

Depending on exactly what gun you have it may well be a fine piece. Some of the old Smith top breaks were shooters, if you ahd the eyes to use the sights.

[pmeisel]

It's an H&R, and a fairly old one. They quit making these by 1940, but I would guess this one is considerably older. Haven't found a serial number on it yet, just 3 digits on the back face of the cylinder. "Harrington and Richardson...etc." on the rib on top of the barrel, and 32 S&W CTGE. on the left side of the barrel... read somewhere that dates it after 1905 but earlier than the mid 20's. Haven't found a good H&R reference yet.

[StarMetal]

Paul,

Maybe this will help.
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18325&stc=1&d=1217129445http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18326&stc=1&d=1217129445http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18327&stc=1&d=1217129445

Notice where that serial # is.

http://www.gun-data.com/harrington_richardson_moderm.html

Joe

[NickSS]

I have owned a lot of these old break open revolvers. They used to cost next to nothing in fact I dealt with a gun shot over 40 years ago that the owner would not even sell them. He took them in and dumped them in a box behind the counter. One day I was asking him about parts for an old Iver Johnson revolver I bout for $5 and broke the latch on with factory ammo. He gave me the whole box full (over 40 revolvers of which 36 were all there). I had a lot of fun shooting them. Some were 22 RF but most were either 32 S&W or 38 S&W. I loaded for both cartridges but used only starter loads in the Lyman handbook. They were not accurate but good enough at 5 to 10 yards. I never had one break except for the one Iver Johnson latch that I repaired from on of my parts guns. I sold off most of them but still have a 32 and a couple of 38s left.

[Bret4207]

As long as the cylinder lines up right it should be fine with sane loads. The H+R's and Iver Johnsons were "working mans" guns, like the H+R Handi guns are today. I always like the IJ finish a bit better, but both will work.

[pmeisel]

So that's where the serial number is. Now I have to get the cylinder off.

Did find a reference on another site that uses the markings on the top and side to date the gun... I am between 1909 and 1914.....

Thanks.