In quest of a 45LC double action

[Dogg]

In my search for a double action 45LC I have had a bunch of questions regarding the Ruger Redhawk and I thank everyone for their responses. While laying in bed this morning I had a epiphany or maybe a brain fart but it crossed my mind that I might be able to have my S&W ltd 1988 model 25 .45acp fitted with a 45LC cylinder. Would this be possible or just a wast of time? Would need a new cylinder and the barrel shortened at the throat. Don't know whether this would ruin a limited run gun or not.
Suggestion on whether this would be a worth while endever and any problems that you might see appreciated.
Some way some how I am going to get a 45LC double action!

Dogg

[S.R.Custom]

It would be cheaper to just find a S&W mod 25 chambered in 45 LC.

[cajun shooter]

Dogg, I have been to several S&W armouer schools while a cop and would have to agree with Supermag. Sometimes things are possible but cost makes them not the best to do.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I might be able to have my S&W ltd 1988 model 25 .45acp fitted with a 45LC cylinder. Would this be possible or just a wast of time?Dogg


Yes you probably could, but It would most likely be cheaper to trade the gun off and then buy a 45colt.

You might try to straight trade some one your 45acp for a 45colt, maybe even someone on this forum would be willing to make that kind of trade.

Are you looking for a gun that can handle +P 45 loads or just the standard loads?

[Dogg]

I really would like something that could handle the same loads as my leveraction, which probably negates the S&W.

[Calamity Jake]

Just get you a Redhawk and go with it.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I really would like something that could handle the same loads as my leveraction.

What type of lever do you have?

[Tim357]

Dogg, If you were to get a .45LC cylinder for your Smith, you would also need another ACP cylinder that would make up for the shortened end of the barrel. Methinks you'd be better off getting a Ruger or try to find a Smith already chambered for .45LC.
My 2 cents,
Tim sends

[pbchunkr]

Hi Dogg -

It may not be to your taste, but for a short while Taurus produced .45 LC in a variety of models - blue, stainless, alum/stainless, think even titanium - mostly 5-shot compacts, but mebbe a 6" Tracker too.

The owner's manual w/early production stated they were good for +P loads, tho' later manuals did not.

I have an Ultralite for carry which I like very well.
While not particularly startling, my standard load of 255gr swc gets ~725ps from the 2" bbl, about the same as factory IIRC.
Vented bbl and their great grips make it a comfortable enough, tho' not wimpy, gun to shoot - less percieved recoil than 230gr factory .45 ACPs in a fullsize.

Good luck in your quest.

regards,

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Good point pbchunkr,

I had forgotten about Taurus. Not sure if their guns are +P rated, but they do/did make a number of 45 DA revolvers including the totally awesome Judge 410/45.

I personally would still take a Ruger or a Smith, but Taurus’s revolvers do seem to be pretty good quality. I make a point to say revolvers, because I have fired 4 Taurus handguns 2 where pistols, 2 where revolvers (the Judge was one of the 2). I was impressed by the revolvers especially considering the price, but the autos made far better paper weights then guns.

[c.r.]

Dogg,

I know where you're coming from in your quest. The ability to shoot heavy, large caliber bullets at 44 mag velocities in a ~4" DA revolver is awfully nice. While this isn't number one on my "have to have" list, it is most definately on there.

The S&W mdl 25 (especially in the Mountain Gun model) would be the ideal candidate......nice trigger, light weight.........BUT it's not going to handle ~30K CUP loads, or at least not too many of them.

So for me (and to keep cost reasonable), I have a couple of options in mind.
I also just don't like the looks of the SRH, so simply cutting the barrel down on one isn't an option for me.

Option 1. Go w/ the Ruger 4" Redhawk in 45Colt and find somebody to do an action job and give me a reasonable trigger pull.

Option 2. Just go w/ a S&W mdl 29/629 (ideally their Mountain Gun) in 44 mag. I'd have to accept that if i want 250+ grain bullets moving at 1200+ fps, then go with the cartridge that was designed to operate at these pressures with these bullets. This would be a relatively light revolver with a nice trigger. I can always find somebody who can improve the S&W trigger if I'm not happy with the factory trigger.

Option 3. Same as option 1, but find one in 44 mag.

Just something else to muddy up the water for you :lol:

~c.r.

[smkummer]

Love mine. They are not cheap anymore but sometimes you can find one for around $800. Buffalo bore states its plus P is ok in them. The grip helps tame the recoil of heavy loads.

[Ed K]

Ditto on teh 625/629 mountain gun idea. No it is not a Redhawk but then again you have to ask yourself what you plan on doing with it. a S&W MG is a svelte 39 oz. A Redhawk is close to 50.

[EDK]

Ditto on teh 625/629 mountain gun idea. No it is not a Redhawk but then again you have to ask yourself what you plan on doing with it. a S&W MG is a svelte 39 oz. A Redhawk is close to 50.

I had a 45 Colt cylinder from the 125 Anniversary S&W fitted to a 25-2 back in the 70s. The Gunsmith didn't get the little cylinder stop thing on the frame done quite right and some other minor screw-ups, but the gun worked. One of the PITA items was that I had to trim the 45 LC casings in order to crimp the Keith semi-wadcutters in the crimping groove...too long for the cylinder! This was a shining example of the KISS principle...Keep It Simple Stupid! and a waste of time and money and aggravation.

If you're going to carry a lot and not shoot too much high performance...read wrist wreckers!...get a SMITH & WESSON and don't abuse it. If you want high performance, get the REDHAWK and pay for longevity with increased weight. BUT the extra weight of the heavy duty gun will also make for more pleasant shooting. Think in terms of a Model 29 versus a REDHAWK/SUPER REDHAWK.

UNCLE ED'S LAW: IF YOU NEED A MAXIMUM LOAD, YOU NEED A BIGGER GUN!

:Fire::redneck::cbpour:

[crgaston]

I really would like something that could handle the same loads as my leveraction, which probably negates the S&W.

I'm going the process of trying out loads for .45LC leverguns and mountain guns right now. Looking at data for the RCBS 270SAA bullet, there are several loads that push this 280 gr Keith-style at 1000-1100fps from a handgun at pressures safe for the Smith MG. Add a couple hundred fps for a rifle barrel and you're talking some decent power for deer and hogs.

12.5grHS6 was accurate in both, and about like a .22 from the rifle (well, a .38, anyways). Pretty quiet, too.

I'll be working up a little bit from there, and trying out 2400 (going to load some in a few minutes) and AA#7 too.

Already tried titegroup and unique. Titegroup gets a fail beacuse of accuracy in my revolver. Unique will get another look, but had position sensitivity problems. That might have been exacerbated by insufficient case neck tension, though, so that's why it gets another try.

What's the point of all this rambling? Well, just that in DA revolvers, the Smith MG is just so much more packable and shootable than a Redhawk for me. A Redhawk is a primary hunting gun moreso than a backup, IMHO. It's worth it to me to accept a little reduction in range with the carbine in order to keep commonality with the superior sidearm. I do have a 300gr WFNGC mould that I wil use to work up some stomper loads for the carbine. I'll ONLY use that bullet for heavy (30KPSI)loads, so I'll know to keep them out of the Smiths.


Oh, and a conversion isn't worth it. It'd probably be cheaper in the long run to just buy a .45LC and keep your ACP than to convert it.

[NickSS]

I can see the desirability of using a common cartridge in a carbine and rifle if they chamber the same ammo. I also love the 45 colt round and have several handguns and rifles in that caliber. However, years of combat experience all around the world by the US and British armys (I am talking over 130 years of experience) has shown that a 45 slug weighing between 330 and 360 gr and traveling at velocities between 700 and 850 fps is a superior man stopper. I can also see the need for a hot load in a 45 colt carbine for hunting big game such as deer and black bear. I also can make a case for having a handgun that you can use for hunting the same critters with. These +P loads while necessary for hunting (may even be leagally required like in my State) I can not see any need for them for self defense. Your S&W in 45 acp is all the defensive gun you need so get a 45 colt handgun for hunting. If I were you I would buy a full sized Red Hawk and leave it alone.

[Dogg]

Wow, thanks for all the input, I appreciate everyones ideas and suggestion.
To answer some of the questions. I have 6 or the Hartford 92s, 24" barrel rifles in 45LC., so I need a companion handgun. Will probably shoot moderate loads most of the time but want the ability to shoot heavy 300gr loads also. Would also not like to have to worry about a heavy load finding its way into the revolver and have it go ballistic.
I guess I answered my own question about using the SMith, guess I will be watching for a super redhawk cause I like unfluted cylinders. I have a 5" redhawk in 44mag but must say the grip configuration and the trigger leave something to be desired, from what I have read in my other post the super redhawk addresses these concerns. I have actually never been much of a revolver shooter, prefering 1911s or other semi-auto but since getting into the leveraction scene guess the revolvers will get in my blood also! Thanks again everyone.
Oh, for those who wonder why I have all the 92s, to make a long story short, I lucked on to a company that does lazer engraving and they had purchased to many Hartford 92s, all of them special orders with well fitted nicely figured walnut stock and and I got them for a very good price, including 2 pairs of consecutive serial numbers, 3 stainless,2 blued and 1 casehardened. And for those that think the Hartford Rossi is not well made, let me just say they look better and shoot better than my marlins.

[casey]

The redhawk is brute strong and will outlast you and your kids. You could also try to find a Colt anaconda. I had a chance to buy one a few years ago and didnt. Been kickin myself since then. Both of these will allow you to shoot anything from plinkers to 44mag level loads. A smith25-2 will cover most things You want to do, however You cant get those heavy loads as easy as you can with the others. The Smith is a fine handgun but it will batter its innards with a steady diet of big loads. Just my 2 cents. I have had a Redhawk and i have a Bisley and a std. blackhawk, I shoot the snot out of them. I shot the snot out of the Redhawk also until I gave it to my nephew. He shot it well and could not find one of his own for sale anywhere.

[StarMetal]

The redhawk is brute strong and will outlast you and your kids. You could also try to find a Colt anaconda. I had a chance to buy one a few years ago and didnt. Been kickin myself since then. Both of these will allow you to shoot anything from plinkers to 44mag level loads. A smith25-2 will cover most things You want to do, however You cant get those heavy loads as easy as you can with the others. The Smith is a fine handgun but it will batter its innards with a steady diet of big loads. Just my 2 cents. I have had a Redhawk and i have a Bisley and a std. blackhawk, I shoot the snot out of them. I shot the snot out of the Redhawk also until I gave it to my nephew. He shot it well and could not find one of his own for sale anywhere.

I wouldn't kick myself too hard. I had an Anaconda in 45 Colt and wasn't impressed with it. I put a 7 power scope on it and believe me I tried every kind of load I could shoot from it from cast to jacketed and the revolver just was not accurate. I overall wasn't impressed with it either. Sold it and don't miss it one iota.

Another revolver that might be looked into is I believe Taurus made a Raging Bull in 45 Colt. I know they made one in 454, but I think they had it in 45 Colt also, along with a whole bunch of other calibers.

Joe

[oldhickory]

Don't snub a Colt New Service! They may have a little age to them, but all that I've ever owned were among the most accurate and well made six-guns ever. My best field shooting's been done with a 1904 vintage New Service in .45 Colt. The action is smooth as glass and delivers a 265gr. somewhat soft cast Keith boolit on target at 50yds. with enough "whomp" to drop just about any North American game animal.

[Whitworth]

Personally I would go Redhawk. You won't have to worry about it beating itself to death with hot loads.

[HamGunner]

Some question the strength of the old New Service Colts, but I feel they can handle about any load that the modern S & W revolvers should receive. RCBS 454-270 SAA at about 280gr. with 16.7gr. Lil'Gun has good accuracy and consistent velocity of 915 fps in my 1939 Colt New Service. About the heaviest load that I ever shoot in it. For my normal shooting load, 8.8 gr. Unique with the 255gr. Lyman 454424, it runs very accurate and 950 fps. Either load should do well in a rifle, but the question of feeding in some lever guns would be questionable unless one used roundnosed bullet designs. I found that 2400 needed more pressure than I wanted in the New Service, in order for it to be consistent.

If you want heavier loads for your revolver and for your rifle, then you certainly should get something like the Redhawk.

[MT Gianni]

Couple of Mod 25's on Gunbroker today that were real reasonable.

[softpoint]

I think I'd probably look for an Anaconda if I were looking to fill your requirements.
I'm also not too keen on the standard Redhawks trigger group, although I have one. I've owned several Super Redhawks and while the trigger group lends itself to a decent trigger job, I've gotten rid of all of them. I can't stand to look at them. Simply showing one of those to an animal should make him go comatose.
I'm a big fan of the S&W Mountain guns, but while they aren't "weak" and a few pretty stout loads won't blow them up, if you shoot stiff loads every day, you will have some issues:drinks:

[jjohnson]

Well, my DA is an M1917 Colt that was converted from .455 Webley to .45 Colt... and it's a real shooter. Previous owner had the action slicked, trigger pull lightened, and had a "T Grip" adapter - my guess is he did a fair amount of DA shooting with it, just judging by the wear on the grip adapter alone.

[Dale53]

I have a couple of Taurus Raging Bulls in .454 Casull. I am thoroughly impressed with their build quality. They came at a fairly reasonable price, also. You could simply shoot haevy .45 Colt loads in them, too. That's probably what I'll mostly be doing (big game around here is whitetail deer and hogs - a good .44 Special or .45 Colt with proper bullets will handle those, neatly).

Dale53

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Get a Dan Wesson! They are HEAVY Duty and will take any sane load you put to it.
I have several Dan's and they take loads I would NOT put in any of my S&W's. I shoot 41 Mag. I have a Marlin CB 41 Mag and a Dan wesson 41 Mag they they both can digest the same loads to include a 265 grain GC boolit.
You may have to look a bit But you will not regret a Dan Wesson Revolver.

[Dogg]

I thank everyone for their input. I ended up winning the bid on a Raging Bull last night on GunBroker, so guess that is what I will be using. At least I won't have to worry about getting a hot loaded 45 colt from one of my rifles in the revolver and grenading it. May have to get a .454 Rossi to go with it,......na think I will just stick to warmed over 45 LC.
Dogg

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Just buy an Anaconda in 45LC. I have one of six factory pistols with a 4" barrel. It's about the PPP. Perfect Packing Pistol.
320's at 1250fps is enough for me. If that's not enough to get the job done, I have my Wildcat 550 Gibbs rifle.

Rich
the other brother not from St Louie

[NVScouter]

I strongly sugest the 4" Redhawk.

I love mine and am shooting it more then my Blackhawk with my hunting loads. It also carries better with the 4" VS 7.75" barrel.

Full power loads are comfortable and cowboy loads feel like a mild 45ACP. I'm shooting Hornady 185g XTP at 1,500FPs, 250g XTPs at 1,400FPS and getting .90" and .60" groups at 40 yards single action. I can get 2" groups at 20 yards slow double action. I'm still working on loads and getting used to the sights but at 75 yards I can put 10 of 12 rounds on a paper plate. I think after a couple hundred more rounds I should be comfortable at 150yards or so. I probobly will save the pistol work past that for my longer barreled Blackhawk but that isnt why I bought the Redhawk.

For cast I have a 250 RNFP moly, a 265g Kieth moly and 300g minies so far. Ordering another mould tonight in the 250-340g range for more work. All 3 shoot well with cylinder room to spare. The minie has a hollow base so I have to keep the power down since it creates more pressure but at 20 yards it shoot 4" higher then the 185g XTPs with 9g of Universal. I'm going to bring that down to 7 and 8g to see about a heavy faster second shot load.

I looked at all 3 of the 45LC Redhawks in town and all 3 had OK actions but after the first 18 rounds machine oil/grease started working its way out and I hit it with Break free. Another 20 something loads and the action felt 100X better then in the store. 3 cleanings and another 150 rounds later and the action is smooth and predictable in double action and crispt in single action. I think its just a Ruger thing to blow out some machining residue.

Only shortcoming is lack of leather. I think I may get the Ruger one and the Rugged pancake holsters.

[Snyd]

I too have a 4" Redhawk and have a Simply Rugged Pancake Holster. I like it strong side but not so much cross draw, it sits to high for my liking. It's a great woods packin gun. I have settled on a 350-360gr hardcast with 21gr H110 and get 1155fps. This is my "OH $#1T" gun and load here in Alaska and should shoot clean through any brown fuzzy at self defense range. It's shoots better than I can. I load 255gr rnfp with 8.5 gr unique for plinkin and am working on a 200gr swc load for it as well. I had cylindersmith ream the throats to .4525. The barrel slugs at .451, boolits sized to .452. I did swap out the Hogue grips for some Pachmeyers and also have some factory Redhawk wood grips. The hogues don't fit my hand and I like the rubber on the backstrap on the pachmeyers.

[NVScouter]

i was looking at that simply rugged pancake. I like my revolvers to ride rather high so I usaly build my own leather. Do you have the sourdough model? Got a pick of it on your hip to see how high it rides?

I totaly agree that hot 45LC with 300g will do anything a "Alaskan Special" will do at "OH $#1T" ranges. When buying this I had all the gun guys trying to push off 2" barrel 454s and 500s with giant cylinders and grips. I bet I can get 6 off before they could get thier 5 or 6 off and keep them on target a smidge better to boot.

I bought the 4" Redhawk since I'm an avid preditor hunter and I've called in blackbears and cougars and time or two. Nothing like seeing a 200# cat stalking you while you have a 22 hornet in your hands [smilie=l: I crawl, sit for long periods and when the weather gets crappy I'm outside and I had a heck of a time keeping the 7.75" Blackhawk out of the mud and snow. I do too much prone and crawling for a shoulder/chest holster and anything on my hip besides the flap holser rotates when I sit to plug the barrel.

[9.3X62AL]

Congrats on the win, Dogg!