Very odd looking WWs smelt?!

[Gunslinger]

I set out to try my new LBT mold today. Emptied my pot and put in 5 WW ingots. When they melted I fluxed and stirred and thought it was time to take off! But the melt acted and looked very strange - no mater how much I fluxed and stirred, I used bees wax and candle stubs. The melt didn't have that familiar mercury look. I don't think it's too little heat, my Lee pot was set at 8-9.

I finally gave up and emptied the pot into a muffin pan, and even when pouring it the lead acted strangely. I have made over 200lbs of well-shooting and well-behaving alloy out of this batch of WWs, and never seen anything like it. 90% of the zinc weights were sorted out prior to smelting, and I've seen how zinc looks like oatmeal when melted... so I'm all out of ideas....

So... what is wrong with it?

[GSM]

Do you have a thermometer? The little ingots look like they were poured cold.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I've had some that looks like that.
It seems to require a lot of skimming.
I think that there are other elements in the WW, and when melted down they begin to float out.
I believe a lot of it is possiblly excess arsenic, or antimony, possibly zinc, or copper, too.
It skims and remains silvery in the scrap bucket- is hard and heavy, too.

It hangs from the ladle in a thin ribbon-like sheet like that, too.
Mine would flux back into the melt, though.
I just go ahead and keep skimming- it eventually disappears.
I run my pot hot, too.
I dip off the back of the ladle and pour with the front to avoid the ribbon effect.

The boolits are very consistent by weight, so it doesn't seem to effect them.

That's the best I can do for ya.

Like I said- enough fluxing eventually takes care of it.

[462]

Gunslinger,

I'll assume that you didn't have this problem when you poured the ingots. So, it may be that your pot's thermostat isn't working properly or the heating coil is defective, either of which are not allowing the alloy to get to the correct operating temperature.

[Echo]

Criminy - those muffin tin ingots look like they were poured with lead pudding! I have never seen anything like hat, and I really think something funny is going on here, and not just your melt being too cold. Unfortunately - I don't have the expertise to trouble shoot this situation. But - Criminy!

[sagacious]

Zinc contamination doesn't just have one set of symptoms, so what you're seeing now may be just that. One of the primary diagnostic symptoms of zinc contamination is a persistent, aggressive dross that does not respond to hydrocarbon fluxing. Since that's what you describe, and as fluidity is also low, my best provisonal guess would be..... zinc in the melt.

Unfortunately, there are several things that could have caused those syptoms with this batch. Not really enough info above to diagnose it with any certainty. More information might help narrow-down the possibilities.

Hope this helps, good luck. :drinks:

[WILCO]

it may be that your pot's thermostat isn't working properly or the heating coil is defective, either of which are not allowing the alloy to get to the correct operating temperature.

Ditto for me!

[runfiverun]

Did you use some kind of pewter as your tin source?
it could be copper, bismuth or just enough zinc to be a pita.
you may be just over the zinc threshold,try cutting what you have in half with a known alloy.

[turbo1889]

Looks like lead-oxide to me. I've done up several smelting batches where I had to skim of a sizeable portion of the nasty stuff and it looks just like what you have there. Is it possible that these ingots were the first or last ones from a large smelting batch??? I'm talking if you dip from the top of the pot to pore your ingots they would be the first or if your pore from the bottom of a large smelting pot with a valve on the bottom it would be the last ones from the batch.

iron-oxide = rust from iron: lead-oxide is a similar situation.

[Gunslinger]

I know it's not the thermostat, after emptying the weird WWs I filled the pot with the newly made alloy. I was producing enough heat to keep 3 3-cav iron molds busy (the bullet output is quite amazing).

Yes I did add a corner of a pewter vase to the pot about 1x1". But that was because the melt was getting funny with me. I always use pewter as a tin source when alloying boolit metal - usually works fine! Maybe I did overstep a boundary?! Most of what I use says pewter underneath. I also get a lot of norwegian Tin, when added to big smelt it just vanishes without leaving much behind.

No I don't think the ingots were from the first or last pour, and even if they where I can't see how it could affect anything... I always clean very well so by the time the ingots reach the pot there is little dross and dirt to remove.

The pot don't seem to mind the funny smelt, so maybe I'll melt the WW ingots again and just skim till it's gone and se where it gets me. I can just add some harder alloy and even it out.

Thanks for the inputs... once again [smilie=s:

[runfiverun]

some pewters are not tin they are iirc zimac [something like that] and they are god awful to your pot.

[docone31]

I have to agree with that.
I got some mystery metal once that was miserable to get out. I mean miserable.
I ended up by blending 1/3 of the pot with pure lead. I have enough pure for my muzzle loaders, and the mix is for paper patching.
Thin it out, you can still use it.