Mixing jacketed and lead

[Frank]

What's the big deal? I read that was bad. But I shot 40 rounds jacketed, then 30 of lead. I had no leading and the copper came out with two patches of Sweets. So mixing copper and jacketed wasn't so bad. Was that not enough rounds to cause a problem?

[Mike Venturino]

Frank: Despite those dire warnings, I've never experienced problems firing cast after jacketed in handguns or rifles. In fact as a sort of "test" recently I fired over 100 jacketed rounds through a scoped 1903 Springfield .30-06. Then a single cast fouling shot was fired and then a five shot group at 100 yards. It measured 1 1/2 inches.

[BoolitBill]

Some guy at the range says he fires jacketed bullets after he shoots with cast to "get the lead out". Can someone out there tell me if this works or he is just pulling my chain?

[docone31]

I do it.
I do not know if it works, however, cleaning is a snap.

[txhunter77]

Some guy at the range says he fires jacketed bullets after he shoots with cast to "get the lead out". Can someone out there tell me if this works or he is just pulling my chain?

The copper used in jackets is harder than even hard cast lead. As such any soft metal left in the bore should be removed by a harder material as it passes by. Then again any copper fouling left in the bore would likely cause the lead to build up on it, but in actual experience I've never had this happen, at least not to any extent that I could see. I've fired 100 or so rounds of hard and soft cast lead followed up by jacketed bullets with no ill effect, as well as visa versa, the jackets then the lead.

[Ramsgate]

At one time I practiced at an indoor range that did not allow jacketed bullets. I used cast bullets in one XP100, two Contenders, two MOAs and one Dan Wesson. Outside I used jacketed bullets. I found that I could shoot jacketed in a barrel that had been shooting lead and accuracy did not suffer but any gilding whatsoever had a dreadful affect on lead bullet accuracy. Now I tend to shoot only lead in the manly calibers (375 H&H, 41 mag, 44-40 and 45-70) and only jacketed in the little bitty darning needle calibers.

[mpmarty]

IMHO, any substantial buildup of fouling, be it lead or gilding metal, copper etc. can cause increased chamber pressure and adversely effect accuracy. I have a couple of 7.62 Nato rifles that can do very well with either lead or jacketed but neither of them tend to accumulate any fouling to speak of. My first Marlin '95 45/70 on the other hand lost all sense of "target acquisition" after fifteen or twenty rounds of cast boolits. There was a tight spot under the roll stamp on the barrel and those fine folks at Marlin took it back and fitted a nice new ballard rifled tube to it. Now it goes for hundreds of rounds without cleaning and is quite accurate. I clean it during infrequent guilt trips.

[JRW]

I don't have the article anymore, but a couple of years ago, I remember a wirte up regarding borescopes. The question came up about "getting the lead out" by shooting Jbullets after cast. the scope pictures they showed indicated the lead was still there but had been "ironed" out or sqeezed into the rifling. I wish I had the article, can't even remember what magazine published it. sorry.

Jim.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I bought a nicely sporterized SMLE No4 MK1 last year. It came with a couple of hundred surplus corrosive j word bullets. I fired off about a hundred and then a few dozen cast lead boolits.

The first dozen were pretty good and grouped nicely. Then it went downhill fast. By round 30 we were spraying over the backstop never mind the paper target.

By this time the bore was totally leadded up and quite a sight. I dosed it heavily with Kroil and let it sit overnight. The next day I was pushing out nice little tubes of lead from inside the bore. Once the lead was out I tackled the copper fouling.

After about a week of off and on cleaning I again loaded up the veteran rifle and took it to the range with some cast boolits.

No problems. Produced a nice grouping and kept it up for over 60 rounds. No leading to speak of as there was not any copper fouling to catch on the lead boolits.

[Frank]

Sounds like Crash Corrigan did a good test. At a certain point the copper will strip the lead. But how many rounds are we still good for? It'll be good for the rest of a session, maybe a little more, but I think it's best to clean out all the copper asap, especially if lead is to be used. I don't want to leave the copper in there. A little copper cleaning in the beginning is easier than heavy lead cleaning later.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I believe the article JRW is speaking about was in Shooting Times mag. about 2 yrs. or so ago and the article was by the handloading writer Rick Jamison about getting his Hawkeye bore scope. Back when dirt was "clean" I was taught not to mix the 2 types of bullet composition when shooting. It has always stuck with me, thus I have no leading and copper fouling problems on top of each other.Robert

[Southern Son]

I think Marty has it. I little bit og copper followed by a little bit of lead or the other way round won't make any difference. While I was shooting at the Broken Hill Pistol Club I was going through up to 2000 rounds a month of cast (you could go shooting any day of the week for nothing other than the cost of ammo). I got a heap of Chinese made .45acp FMJ (Norinco brand). It was rubbish. Some of the cases did not even have flash holes from the primer pocket through into the case. It was no good for competition so after firing 200-500 rounds of hard cast, I would put a few of the FMJs through. It never gave me any problems (except the ones with no flash hole, they locked the pistol up good and proper and took quite a bit of work to clear).

Crash, do you know how may rounds the rifle had fired without being cleaned before you got it?

[leadman]

I have some firearms that will shoot just fine mixing jacketed and cast.
Then there is my 1891 Arg. Mauser. It has been shot extensively with jacketed and it still does build up fouling. It maintains very good accuracy with jacketed.
After cleaning with an electronic bore cleaner it will shoot cast with no leading but with so-so accuracy.
Shoot cast after jacketed and the target better be within 50 yards if you want to hit it.
I would say each firearm is different and the only way to tell is to shoot both and look at the results.

[XWrench3]

i do it, it DOES work. for a "to be certain test" i shot lead boolits through my 30-30 rifle, which leads terribly right now, until the boolits were not even hitting a paper plate @ 50 yards. 3 jacketed bullets, and the next cast lead boolit hit dead center of the paper plate. now, mind you, these jacketed loads were not hot rod high pressue loads. doing that may be a horrid mistake. but these 3 jacketed plinking loads worked great 4 me.

[Bret4207]

IME it all depends on the rifle or handgun. I have some very, very forgiving rifles that you can do about anything with and still get good to great accuracy. I have others that require a spotlessly clean barrel and a few foulers before they decide to behave.

Anytime you have massive amounts of fouling it's a good idea to get it out. While it can destroy any hope of decent cast shooting it can also screw with your jacketed shooting. I even have a couple 22 RFs that need a cleaning every few hundred rounds.

[blaster]

In my experience a hand full of jacketed bullets in a pretty heavily leaded bore will just iron the lead into hte rifling, but it didn't make it noticably easier to clean so it seemed pointless. This was maybe 10 rounds. There weren't any pressure signs or anyting.

[454PB]

In my experience, cast boolits shot after jacketed work fine, the not the reverse. After cast boolits have been fired, the barrel needs a thorough cleaning before jacketed accuracy returns.

I've used jacketed bullets to remove leading, but more recently I've found that a single gas checked cast boolit will remove heavy (visible) leading. Also, a very lightly loaded cast boolit does the same thing, much the same as slugging a barrel removes leading. I'm talking velocity of 500 fps or less, so you must be cautious and watch for squibs and a boolit stuck in the barrel.

[jbc]

There is an article in the new (december 2009) handloader magazine called "cast bullet myth busting" by Mike Venturino that covers this subject. Not a bad read. Just don't tell 44man or this will end up another off subject tangent bashing Mr. Venturino.:bigsmyl2:

[bruce drake]

I've got to subscribe to Handloader and Rifle Mags. You guys are getting them almost a month before I see them on the newstand!

Oh, back on Thread. I try to not mix my boolits with bullets. Thankfully, I've got enough rifles to segregate the loads :))

Bruce

[awaveritt]

I had some light leading in my S&W 638 snubbie so one day I fired a box of 50 j-word hollowpoints +P loads thru it. Got home and inspected and to my surprise, the leading was gone, or at least appeared to be to the naked eye. Went thru my regular cleaning protocol and noticed no lead or copper residue. I'm convinced those 50 rounds of J-Words removed my leading.


''Life's tough, pilgrim, and....it's even tougher if you're [stoopid].'' -- John Wayne

[jbc]

I've got to subscribe to Handloader and Rifle Mags. You guys are getting them almost a month before I see them on the newstand!

Oh, back on Thread. I try to not mix my boolits with bullets. Thankfully, I've got enough rifles to segregate the loads :))

Bruce

I subscribe online - I don't get the printed mags , I download the pdf's long before the printed ones are on the shelf. I think it is only $25 per year for handloader, rifle, and sucessfull hunter together.

[Frank]

jbc says
There is an article in the new (december 2009) handloader magazine called "cast bullet myth busting" by Mike Venturino that covers this subject. Not a bad read. Just don't tell 44man or this will end up another off subject tangent bashing Mr. Venturino.
Hey, maybe because of 44man's criticism the articles will have more details now, making for a good read. Can't wait to get a copy. :coffee: Is it on the stands yet?