Lee 6.5

[moonclip]

After about a 18 month wait, I just got my Lee bullet mold for my swed. They drop out of the mold at 177.4 grns and .268 dia. I have a mod 96 swed, the barrel is .265. Some questions if you will.

What would be the best size to size them too and is there a chance I could shoot the them unsized?

About what velocity should I shoot them for best results?

Anybody got any pet loads for this?

I would love any help I could get.:redneck:

[Bullshop]

OH NO!!! Here we go again!!! Hang on just a bit and you will get more help than you hoped for.
No offence ment friend its just that the questions you asked always seem to bring out the best in folks.
I am not sure which one of the two you got, the cruis missle or the caribiner. Even though I have both I have not really done much work with either but have kinda watched the comotion when others have asked the same thing. I think the general consensis is about 1700 fps max. You will get more help than I can offer accept hold onto your hat!
BIC/BS
BIC/BS

[carpetman]

It will be said they cant be shot at high speed. It will be said yes I did too. I say so what--even at 2700 fps you aint matching a 30-06 and I say if you did shoot at that speed so what? It doesnt pay as if you shot 10 under par on the Masters.

[dromia]

Try them as cast and see what happens.

Some members here shoot tight groups at high velocity with the Swede but not evidently using customary reloading proceedures.

They think that itheir proceedure is too risking to share on an open forum, you can put your own value on that.

Therefore for starters the current wisdom of keeping velocity under 1700 fps for good accuracy holds true using standard and described reloading practices.

[dromia]

BTW by "barrel is .265" do you mean bore or groove diameter?

[45 2.1]

Some members here shoot tight groups at high velocity with the Swede but not evidently using customary reloading proceedures.

They think that itheir proceedure is too risking to share on an open forum, you can put your own value on that.

Therefore for starters the current wisdom of keeping velocity under 1700 fps for good accuracy holds true using standard and described reloading practices.


A lot of people don't follow directions OR even read them. Some things require some instruction so you don't do something STUPID. Just why would somebody put out information, that requires some intelligence to use, that could be used incorrectly and possibly cause harm?

[jonk]

The swedes generally have a nice tapered long throat. No reason not to try as cast and bump down a thousandth or two as needed. If it chambers of course.

[bravokilo]

A lot of people don't follow directions OR even read them. Some things require some instruction so you don't do something STUPID. Just why would somebody put out information, that requires some intelligence to use, that could be used incorrectly and possibly cause harm?


If we follow that line of logic we should outlaw loading manuals. After all, if you don't follow the directions you could do something stupid and hurt yourself. Personaly I think if whatever you're doing is so dangerous it would probably be considered less than a bright idea by most people.


But then I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't see the purpose of such a load. If you want to shoot something large and hairy it can be done with a load at 1700 fps and if you don't do something stupid it will work just fine. Paper can be killed with much less velocity. I have plenty of other calibers to work with that provide plenty of power and velocity with published data that don't require any "secret voodoo". I think the whole subject is a large waste of bandwidth.


BK

[45 2.1]

If we follow that line of logic we should outlaw loading manuals. Reloading manuals ARE instructive, they have to be. After all, if you don't follow the directions you could do something stupid and hurt yourself. Just like driving a car, Huh....Those things kill a lot of people because they don't pay attention (the cause of 95% of accidents) Personaly I think if whatever you're doing is so dangerous it would probably be considered less than a bright idea by most people. Beats walking to town, doesn't it.


But then I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't see the purpose of such a load. Some guys here like shooting prairie dogs, makes it much easier at 2400 fps or so. Lighter recoil etc. If you want to shoot something large and hairy it can be done with a load at 1700 fps and if you don't do something stupid it will work just fine. Please, make sure no one that you don't want hurt is with you when you do that, and make sure your life insurance is paid up. You want to take chances with your own life, fine but don't subject others to it. Paper can be killed with much less velocity. I have plenty of other calibers to work with that provide plenty of power and velocity with published data that don't require any "secret voodoo". Thats somebody else's words, which was less than a snappy reply. I think the whole subject is a large waste of bandwidth. You seem to be happy with low velocity, your choice, but others do want to know how.

[Bullshop]

Told ya!
BIC/BS

[carpetman]

Why would someone put out non information and beat around the bush? May as well remain silent.

[felix]

What is the risky part? Tight necks. ... felix

[45 2.1]

What is the risky part? Tight necks. ... felix


Joe's load was 31 gr of 4350 with a 129 gr. cast in the 6.5 Swede. Look in your reloading manuals and tell us about it.

[felix]

The manuals I have, Bob, don't have pressure traces for their loads. ... felix

[45 2.1]

The manuals I have, Bob, don't have pressure traces for their loads. ... felix

AA Data: 4350 129 HDY SP 41.4 2,423 46.0 2,753 50,300

Hogdon Data:
129 GR. HDY SP IMR IMR 4350 .264" 2.935" 42.0 2584 40,000 CUP 46.0 2793 45,800 CUP

Note the charges and pressures, compare potential case capacities.

[felix]

What was Joe's load in comparison? ... felix

[45 2.1]

What was Joe's load in comparison? ... felix


He reported 31.0 gr. of AA4350 @ about 2200 fps

[felix]

I assume his accuracy approximately equals that of the jacketed load you exhibited. In that situation, his pressure would have to be at least 35-40K in my opinion to make that same 4350 burn fair enough with that boolit. He would need a filler in that standard case, and, of course, those used could supply additional energy to keep the pressure more even throughout the barrel. The stick machine gun powder should be about what the doctor ordered. There is too much case capacity left over to play the tight neck game with that 4350 powder speed. Naturally, the cases can be filled with lead giving the proper amount of case capacity, and primer flame hole drilled all the way through making 31 grains of 4350 safe. ... felix

[45 2.1]

I assume his accuracy approximately equals that of the jacketed load you exhibited. Accuracy was 1/2" at 100 yds for the lead load. In that situation, his pressure would have to be at least 35-40K in my opinion to make that same 4350 burn fair enough with that boolit. Which 31 gr. by itself wouldn't do. The load is lower than a starting load would be if used conventionally. He would need a filler in that standard case, and, of course, those used could supply additional energy to keep the pressure more even throughout the barrel. The stick machine gun powder should be about what the doctor ordered. True, but he used a faster powder than I do. There is too much case capacity left over to play the tight neck game with that 4350 powder speed. But it was played within 0.001" clearance. Naturally, the cases can be filled with lead giving the proper amount of case capacity, and primer flame hole drilled all the way through making 31 grains of 4350 safe. Not the correct method. A 30-06 military case was reformed, fireformed correctly and neck turned for proper clearance.... felix

There is more going on than meets the eye there. Should you want to talk more on this contact me and we'll have a long phone conversation.

[Bret4207]

Well, at least I have my answer now. Maybe someday I'll talk to Bob about it.

[Leftoverdj]

To just answer the question, for those of us without secret juju powers we don't dare reveal, the limit is about 1600 fps and the load is 10.5 grains of Unique.

You need to crimp GCs onto the bullet somehow. A .266 die was what I could find so that's what I use. Works fine for me and shoud work for you.

I have no idea how an argument about what can be done with 129 grain bullet got into a question about how to use a nominally 170 grain bullet.

[bravokilo]

If we follow that line of logic we should outlaw loading manuals. Reloading manuals ARE instructive, they have to be. After all, if you don't follow the directions you could do something stupid and hurt yourself. Just like driving a car, Huh....Those things kill a lot of people because they don't pay attention (the cause of 95% of accidents) Personaly I think if whatever you're doing is so dangerous it would probably be considered less than a bright idea by most people. Beats walking to town, doesn't it.


But then I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't see the purpose of such a load. Some guys here like shooting prairie dogs, makes it much easier at 2400 fps or so. Lighter recoil etc. If you want to shoot something large and hairy it can be done with a load at 1700 fps and if you don't do something stupid it will work just fine. Please, make sure no one that you don't want hurt is with you when you do that, and make sure your life insurance is paid up. You want to take chances with your own life, fine but don't subject others to it. Paper can be killed with much less velocity. I have plenty of other calibers to work with that provide plenty of power and velocity with published data that don't require any "secret voodoo". Thats somebody else's words, which was less than a snappy reply. I think the whole subject is a large waste of bandwidth. You seem to be happy with low velocity, your choice, but others do want to know how.



Gee, where to begin! Yup, taking a shower can be dangerous too, but I fail to see what that has to do with reloading. I've never felt like I was in any danger while I was deer hunting (at least not from the deer). A bullet through the heart or spine is just as lethal started out at 1700 fps or 2200 fps and we are talking about a 170+ grain bullet here.

I seems as though all physics texts are mistaken. They will tell you that LESS velocity=LESS recoil. Guess they have been wrong all these years. Prairie dogs? I am going to divulge a really well kept secret-a .22 or 6mm just might be a better tool for the job. Might be even less recoil. You can use a 3yd dump truck to get groceries too, but is seems like a bit much, no?

The origional quest as I understood it was to get the "cruise missle" bullet to shoot above 1800fps accurately in a Swedish Mauser. That is the rifle/bullet combo that this thread is about. I fail to see where you have advanced that cause at all. I isn't much of a secret that if you want to push a cast bullet fast less SD is the way to go. If a 129gr bullet is all you've got, big deal. Why don't you have somebody make up a 80gr Loverin style mold and really go to town.

Here all along I thought we were looking for a good deer load for a Swede (something most people would consider useful), but now I discover that what we're REALLY looking for is a good prairie load. If ya can't meet the goal, just change the target!!

Yes, I read the load data that you posted. Too light a charge of too slow a powder. Some people just MIGHT consider that a less than brilliant idea. I won't worry about homicdal deer but I am glad that I won't be sitting on the next bench over when you're "load" testing. I think YOU need to make sure your life insurance premiums are up to date!


BK

[45 2.1]

Yes, I read the load data that you posted. Too light a charge of too slow a powder. Some people just MIGHT consider that a less than brilliant idea. I won't worry about homicdal deer but I am glad that I won't be sitting on the next bench over when you're "load" testing. I think YOU need to make sure your life insurance premiums are up to date!
BK

Evidently you think its dangerous............ Could be for people like you. Thats why the actual procedure isn't posted, and is given on a one to one basis, to keep folks like you from doing something bad to theirselves.

[45 2.1]

Well, at least I have my answer now. Maybe someday I'll talk to Bob about it.

Assumptions get you in trouble Bret, you should know that. You didn't learn anything from Joe either.

[Bret4207]

I understand the what and how, I'm puzzled on the why.

[StarMetal]

Gee, where to begin! Yup, taking a shower can be dangerous too, but I fail to see what that has to do with reloading. I've never felt like I was in any danger while I was deer hunting (at least not from the deer). A bullet through the heart or spine is just as lethal started out at 1700 fps or 2200 fps and we are talking about a 170+ grain bullet here.

I seems as though all physics texts are mistaken. They will tell you that LESS velocity=LESS recoil. Guess they have been wrong all these years. Prairie dogs? I am going to divulge a really well kept secret-a .22 or 6mm just might be a better tool for the job. Might be even less recoil. You can use a 3yd dump truck to get groceries too, but is seems like a bit much, no?

The origional quest as I understood it was to get the "cruise missle" bullet to shoot above 1800fps accurately in a Swedish Mauser. That is the rifle/bullet combo that this thread is about. I fail to see where you have advanced that cause at all. I isn't much of a secret that if you want to push a cast bullet fast less SD is the way to go. If a 129gr bullet is all you've got, big deal. Why don't you have somebody make up a 80gr Loverin style mold and really go to town. If you go back to the other 6.5 thread where I've posted my rifle and target pictures you will notice I also told of shooting the cruise missile the first time with known good well casted bullets. Although not as stellar as the Kurtz group it did shoot to what I consider hunting accuracy and the velocity was 2339 fps...give me somemore time with it.

Here all along I thought we were looking for a good deer load for a Swede (something most people would consider useful), but now I discover that what we're REALLY looking for is a good prairie load. If ya can't meet the goal, just change the target!!

Yes, I read the load data that you posted. Too light a charge of too slow a powder. Some people just MIGHT consider that a less than brilliant idea. I won't worry about homicdal deer but I am glad that I won't be sitting on the next bench over when you're "load" testing. I think YOU need to make sure your life insurance premiums are up to date!


BK

Brovokilo,

Not everyone has the same interests or intentions in their shooting. I never was much for shooting cast bullets out of rifles with fast shotgun/pistol powder for economy. My idea was merely to replace the jacketed bullet with my cast bullets.....so I most always shot cast fast. I've always been a stickler for small groups too. If we all had to the same ideas, goals, intentions, likes...we'd all be married to the same woman, driving the same brand of car, working at the same occupation. As you know that's not the way the world is.

Regards
Joe

[bravokilo]

Evidently you think its dangerous............ Could be for people like you. Thats why the actual procedure isn't posted, and is given on a one to one basis, to keep folks like you from doing something bad to theirselves.


LOL! No, it wouldn't be dangerous for me. I'm smart enough to NOT GO THERE! Not without a ballistics lab at my disposal. Without that you're just guessing and groping in the dark, a very bad place to be when you load ammo. If the safety margin is that small, it AIN"T SAFE!! EVERYBODY makes mistakes. I'm just glad I won't be on the next bench when you make YOURS. I like all my body parts just the way they are, thank you very much!

Now, to repeat the question Bret asked-WHY? Shooting prairie dogs with a 6.5 Swede?? You couldn't find a better tool for the job?

Starmetal-"If you go back to the other 6.5 thread where I've posted my rifle and target pictures you will notice I also told of shooting the cruise missile the first time with known good well casted bullets. Although not as stellar as the Kurtz group it did shoot to what I consider hunting accuracy and the velocity was 2339 fps...give me somemore time with it."

Ah, no I won't go back there.....gave me a headache. Was this done with an alloy that would be suitable for hunting? Was it done with a safe loading procedure? One that doesn't make you want to cross yourself before you pull the trigger? If not, it's pointless. I guess it would prove a technical point, but not a practical one.

BK

[StarMetal]

LOL! No, it wouldn't be dangerous for me. I'm smart enough to NOT GO THERE! Not without a ballistics lab at my disposal. Without that you're just guessing and groping in the dark, a very bad place to be when you load ammo. If the safety margin is that small, it AIN"T SAFE!! EVERYBODY makes mistakes. I'm just glad I won't be on the next bench when you make YOURS. I like all my body parts just the way they are, thank you very much!

Now, to repeat the question Bret asked-WHY? Shooting prairie dogs with a 6.5 Swede?? You couldn't find a better tool for the job?

Starmetal-"If you go back to the other 6.5 thread where I've posted my rifle and target pictures you will notice I also told of shooting the cruise missile the first time with known good well casted bullets. Although not as stellar as the Kurtz group it did shoot to what I consider hunting accuracy and the velocity was 2339 fps...give me somemore time with it."

Ah, no I won't go back there.....gave me a headache. Was this done with an alloy that would be suitable for hunting? Was it done with a safe loading procedure? One that doesn't make you want to cross yourself before you pull the trigger? If not, it's pointless. I guess it would prove a technical point, but not a practical one. Yes done with a 50/50 alloy ww/lead AC. It's a very good alloy, expands, doesn't shear or shatter like some others. Yes done safe. You don't know the technique so how can you state it's extremely dangerous and one needs a ballistic lab to assure it. If you use any kind of filler, such as Dacron, Kapok, styro foam, COW, tissue paper, hornet's nest, silkweed, dryer lint, shotshell buffer, etc., you're essentially doing the same unsafe thing that you think you know what you are talking about. So how safe are you now?

BK

Like said before BK, if you don't want to shoot HV with the Swede that's fine by a lot of us. We don't have to justify our reason to you. This all started on this forum when a group of members
stated that it could not be done. Some theories were that the high rpm bent the bullet after they exited the muzzle. In matter of fact one member even cast some 6.5 bullets with a long steel pin centered inside them and sent them to another member to shoot. Then the member worried that he probably should not have done that for fear the ATF would pursue him for making armor piercing bullets. I think many members have forgotten all that was discussed about shooting 6.5 Swede at HV.

I'm on to you, I know what you are doing with 45 2.1. Won't work with me, I'm finish with you. I stated my piece and I'm done.

Joe

[Leftoverdj]

I know the question was how to best use the 6.5 Oldfeller and the limitations of that bullet. That seems to have escaped the rest of you. What you can do with some other bullet is totally irrelevant.

[bravokilo]

Like said before BK, if you don't want to shoot HV with the Swede that's fine by a lot of us. We don't have to justify our reason to you. This all started on this forum when a group of members
stated that it could not be done. Some theories were that the high rpm bent the bullet after they exited the muzzle. In matter of fact one member even cast some 6.5 bullets with a long steel pin centered inside them and sent them to another member to shoot. Then the member worried that he probably should not have done that for fear the ATF would pursue him for making armor piercing bullets. I think many members have forgotten all that was discussed about shooting 6.5 Swede at HV.

I'm on to you, I know what you are doing with 45 2.1. Won't work with me, I'm finish with you. I stated my piece and I'm done.

Joe


ROFLMAO!! Just what are you "on" to? That the weather here is unseasonably cold and nasty? That I read one too many "you're too stupid and we can't trust you" posts?

Let me define a "safe" load. I'm going right off the bottom of the scale. 13gr Red Dot, or 16gr 2400 in a 30-06. You can use any case, any primer, and I believe any bullet (cast or jacketed) and you won't get into any real trouble. Worst case scenario you might get a sticky bolt. Unless you're completely brain dead and double charge a case. That I can't help you with. Both safe and published EVEYWHERE.

I don't use fillers. It's not because I think they're unsafe(if you know what you're doing), just a PITA.

Now, why do I think what you're doing is dangerous? BECAUSE YOU TWO CLOWNS KEEP SAYING IT IS!!! How many posts are there about this saying "We can't tell you, it's too dangerous, you might get hurt"? If it was "safe" it could be published without anybody getting their knickers in a twist about somebody hurting themselves. If the margin for error is that close it ain't safe and you know it!! Like I said earlier, EVERYBODY makes mistakes. I'm just glad I won't be on the next bench when you make YOURS!

moonclip, sorry about the hijack.


BK

[Bret4207]

Now, to repeat the question Bret asked-WHY? Shooting prairie dogs with a 6.5 Swede?? You couldn't find a better tool for the job?


BK

Oh no, no! You misinterpret my "Why?" question. I see nothing wrong with shooting prairie dogs with a 6.5x55, a 32-40 or a 416 Weatherby. Go for it. My question was referring to how and why what they're doing works without problems. I'm still wrapping my head around the idea, but (STAND BY FOR THIS!!!) I think you should give them the benefit of the doubt until you try it and understand it yourself. While I don't agree with the tone that's been taken over it, I can recall a time in the not too distant past when other members were scoffed at when they said not all the lube grooves need filling, or that fit was more important than hardness and that Lee's mould would never be any good.

I don't have the full picture yet, but I'm thinking. And based on what I'm told so far there's good reason to be cautious regarding the technique they're using. So please don't drag me into this fight.

[45 2.1]

I know the question was how to best use the 6.5 Oldfeller and the limitations of that bullet. That seems to have escaped the rest of you. What you can do with some other bullet is totally irrelevant.

The 6.5 Oldfeller, as you call it, has no limitations that a jacketed bullet the same weight doesn't have. Each can be driven to full safe velocity for the rifle it is used in with equal accuracy. Joe has had it to 2500 fps with very good accuracy.