Brand new Lyman 429421

[burch]

After a bad experience buying used molds I decided to take the plung and buy a new one. My Lyman 429421 just arrived home. A couple questions please. Since i`ve never owned a new mold are their any tips on using new molds. Also, i`m using W-W`s for my 44 special. What`s a good temp to use for my melt ?

Burch

[happy7]

Congradulations on your new mold. The 429421 is a great bullet. I have a Lyman 4 cavity in this design I purchased new. Hopefully it will not be undersize. If it is, send it back to Lyman. A great tip is to make sure you preheat the mold. Otherwise, you will be dropping a lot of bullets before you get the mold up to temp. Getting a hotplate totally transformed my casting experience. With a Lyman mold, keep in mind that they use a SOFT iron. Use the mold gently. Close it gently. Work the sprue plate gently. Make sure the bolt on the sprue plate is not too tight and not too loose. If it is too tight, when the mold gets hot, it will gall. And do not believe that it will come set right from the factory. The sprue plate should not be loose enought to wooble, but not so tight that is grates. If it falls open slowly from its own weight, it is probably good. I use bull plate lube on my Lymans to keep them from galling. But you need to use it sparingly or you can cause your bases not to fill out well. Only apply it when the mold it full of bullets.

Wheel weights will work very well for your 44 specials. 700 degrees works well for me, but 750 will work as well. It depends some how fast you cast, how cold it is outside, how much wind there is, etc. At least if you cast outdoors like I do. Here is a very good tip. If you are having trouble getting the bases to fill out well, take a file and break the edge of each mold face at the top, to make a little V between the mold halves. This creates a vent to let the air out and will solve most problems with the bases filling out good.

Before casting with a new mold for the first time, it must be cleaned very well. I have had very good success cleaning my molds by scrubbing the mold cavities and tops with hot water, detergent and a tooth brush. Preheat the mold and you are good to go. Brake cleaner also works very well. If you are getting wrinkled bullets, the mold is not hot enough. Most people struggle when casting because their mold is too cold.

Make sure you have a good set of hanldes. If they don't align properly, they can mess up your alignment pins and holes.

Well that is all I can think of for right now. Good luck. You have chosen a great bullet and it should shoot very well for you. I would recommend trailboss as a powder.

[Cloudpeak]

I think happy7 pretty well covered the bases.

I just wanted to second the pre-heating of the mold on a hot plate. If you're using a bottom pour, the hot plate is also handy for "pre-melting" the lead and then pouring the molten lead into the bottom pour. This speeds things up considerably.

After casting awhile, you'll be able to dial in the proper setting to pre-heat the mold just right and when you're "on the money", you'll be able to open your sprue cutter with a gloved hand instead of beating on the sprue plate. When you first start, if you error on the "too hot" side, you'll have to wait for the sprue puddle to solidify. This tells you that the mold is too hot so let it cool down dial it down a bit for next time. I'd rather have this problem than lots of cold bullets that need to be re-melted and hard to cut sprues.

The "Bullplate Sprue lube" is great for pivot points, alignment pins and sprue cutter/mold top interface on any mold, especially aluminum and it works great on the Lyman, too.

Good luck.

[462]

burch,

First of all, disassemble the mould and give everything a thorough cleaning. Dawn dishwashing detergent, a toothbrush, and hot water, or spray brake parts cleaner work well. Check for and remove any burrs. Visually check that the sprue plate sits flush to the blocks. If not, it needs to be lapped using 400 and finer paper. I Oxpho-Blue it afterwards.

I reassemble using anti-sieze on the screws and under the sprue plate. It prevents the screws from possibly freezing in place and eliminates lead smears and galling.

Wheel weights work with my 429421.

As far as temperature is concerned, each mould is different and yours will tell you what it likes -- too cold and it'll drop wrinkled boolits, too hot and they will be frosted. I rely on the mould to tell me the proper temperature, not a thermomter.

Good luck.

[burch]

Keep goin` fellas i`m learnin`

:redneck:

[burch]

I think happy7 pretty well covered the bases.

I just wanted to second the pre-heating of the mold on a hot plate. If you're using a bottom pour, the hot plate is also handy for "pre-melting" the lead and then pouring the molten lead into the bottom pour. This speeds things up considerably.

After casting awhile, you'll be able to dial in the proper setting to pre-heat the mold just right and when you're "on the money", you'll be able to open your sprue cutter with a gloved hand instead of beating on the sprue plate. When you first start, if you error on the "too hot" side, you'll have to wait for the sprue puddle to solidify. This tells you that the mold is too hot so let it cool down dial it down a bit for next time. I'd rather have this problem than lots of cold bullets that need to be re-melted and hard to cut sprues.

The "Bullplate Sprue lube" is great for pivot points, alignment pins and sprue cutter/mold top interface on any mold, especially aluminum and it works great on the Lyman, too.

Good luck.

I use a propane grill, pot and ladle.

[Bullshop]

I like to set the beat using a big Westclock with a loud tik tik tik sweeping second hand. It is set at eye level just behind my pot. Once I get the time for that mold with that alloy it keeps thing very consistant.
BIC/BS

[Tim357]

I generally dip the mold's corner in the molten lead for a count of 8 - 10, then flip it over to heat the opposite corner. Just like Lee recommends for their molds. Works like a champ! Lyman and RCBS take too flippin' long to heat up by casting bad boolit after bad boolit.
Tim sends

[theperfessor]

BullPlate prevents a lot of wear and lead smears on molds of all types. Get some and use as directed, you won't be sorry.

+1 to all the other advice given here.

[Shiloh]

Clean the bejezers out of it and when its really clean, do it one more time.
The bullplate lube has already been recommended. I do as well.

Shiloh

[burch]

After my first time casting with my new mold yesterday i`ll have to tell ya i`m pretty happy with it. The bases are turning out very nice along with the rest of the bullet. The dia. is .431 which is fine with me. The only thing i`m not understanding is why i`m getting a 255 grainer with W-W`s. Any suggestions on how to get the weight down or just don`t worry about it and shoot `em as is ?

Burch :-)

[IcerUSA]

Probably just the alloy is your weight differance , I wouldn't worry bout it though .

As long as the as cast size is good for your pistol I would lube and shoot them .

Keith

[burch]

The only problem is all the data i`ve found have been for a 250gr. bullet. Can I just use that data ?

[HeavyMetal]

Remember that all Lyman molds are cut for there number 2 alloy which is very rich in tin.

WW are not! The difference in the alloy can account for as much as 20 grains in pistol calber boolits. One of the reasons I started "blending" a specific alloy was to keep the weight as consistant as possible.

If you mix alloys in the same "run" you may wind up with a bunch of 255's a bunch of 250's and some 245's as well mix these up size and load and you may have "flyers you can't explain

as an example lets say the "fate's" let you put four245 grain boolits and 2 255's in one cylinder full of you 44 special. Shoot that for a group size and the two heavy's, which should be some what slower, may impact on the paper and inch or more north of the others.

If you decide to "adjust" your alloy make sure to write down what you did and what you changed or added and then label that batch and load it and all subsiquit batchs seperately.

As to all the other suggestions they are good tips for sure! Particularly the hot plate and the lubing of the sprue plate pivot point!

[GabbyM]

The #429421 is 245 grain from Linotype. That's right from the Lyman 49th load manual.
So 255 grains from WW would be about right.

[Dale53]

After my first time casting with my new mold yesterday i`ll have to tell ya i`m pretty happy with it. The bases are turning out very nice along with the rest of the bullet. The dia. is .431 which is fine with me. The only thing i`m not understanding is why i`m getting a 255 grainer with W-W`s. Any suggestions on how to get the weight down or just don`t worry about it and shoot `em as is ?

Burch :-)

Just load them and shoot them with Lyman data. Your revolver will not respond adversely from the slight weight differences from Lyman's weight to your weight.

Now, the comments on bullet weight varying from alloy to alloy differences. The comments are correct. However, I, long ago, came up with a "solution" to the "problem".

I fill my RCBS pot FULL before I start castiing. I throw the sprues and rejuects back in the pot as I go. I add NO metal to my pot when casting. I run the pot nearly dry (leave ½" of metal in the pot when finished to help keep from overheating the element in the pot). I keep these bullets together from casting to sizing to storage. I go to the Dollar stores (there are several different type "Dollar" stores and buy suitable rectangular plastic food storage boxes for bullet storage). Depending on bullet weight, I get maybe 500-750 bullets per pot full.

When I reload, I keep the loaded rounds in separate containers properly labeled. This insures when I shoot that I use ONLY the same bullets cast in a batch. Everything from casting to shooting is controlled for best results.

This does NOT take any extra effort - just management.

I am a "certified old fart" and casting up a pot of bullets is often as much as I want to do at one time. When I was casting hours at a time (when much younger) I would batch my materials (cast up a single alloy in hundreds of pounds). That way, I could keep adding the exact same alloy to the pot as I went. However, since I don't often cast more than one pot at a time, I have changed my ways.

However, the basic method is the same - keep bullets of the same alloy together start to finish...

FWIW

Dale53

[happy7]

But if you are just casting for shooting at ranges around 25 yards, then the amount of variation you will get from one batch of wheel weights to another, especially if you sort out the stick ons, is not going to make that much difference on paper. Not that many people can shoot well enough to tell the difference. Now if you want hunting bullets for ranges out to 200 yards, (or 600 if you are Kieth)then yes, you need to be as meticulous as possible.

[Dale53]

happy7;
I see this type of comment all the time. Yes, I know that my comments are often colored by my shooting experience at the longer ranges (I have competed in Hunter Silhouette shooting - standing, scopes allowed and ranges to 100 yards). I done a bit of deer hunting also and my personal, self imposed, range limit on live animals is 125 yards from field positions. I have also competed extensively with precision rifle. That takes good ammo. It saddens me to see competitors (or even plinkers) that limit their possibilities because of poor ammo.

Keep in mind that the "error of the ammo" is ADDED to the error of the shooter. So, anything reasonable that I can do to reduce the error of my ammo will help me on the firing line whether I am an NRA "Marksman" or a "Master". We ALL want to receive full value for our shot.

After a person learns to cast (some people state it takes as much as two years to be a really good bullet caster) you will find that you can cast near perfect bullets as easily as "non-perfect" bullets. It just makes sense to me to do as well as you can and discard the "imperfects". Batching components takes NO more effort and can reward you with "free" points when shooting. "Free" points are those that you get from superior ammo.

No intention to offend, but merely a statement of a "way" to do better when we are on the firing line. Building poor quality ammo will insure you stay a "marksman" instead of an "Expert" or "Master". Match quality ammo, which we all should try to build, will not, of itself, make you a Master shooter but it will ALLOW you to reach for that goal. That applies whether you are hunting, plinking, or shooting at the Nationals.

FWIW
Dale53

[462]

Weighing your boolits and keeping those that meet your criteria is another way to maintain consistency, from batch to batch.

[kelbro]

Weighing your boolits and keeping those that meet your criteria is another way to maintain consistency, from batch to batch.

Weight is how I cull my batches. The 'art' is getting to where you have very few culls in a batch. It's always a pleasure to have one of those days.

[Dale53]

Back in the late Sixties and early Seventies our club got really interested in PPC shooting (PPC - Police Pistol Combat). We had several policemen as club members that were on National Teams (my little town's police department of 100 policemen actually won the Nationals one year). Our Police Chief was an outstanding PPC shooter and his shooting partner is one of my close friends (they were a FORMIDABLE two man team).

At any rate, when I and my fellow club members started shooting PPC, we were rank beginners. We practiced together and shoot together. We went "up the ladder" together heading towards the top rank. One of our group went right along with us and then seemed to run into a brick wall and stopped progressing. He had normal (that is to say, good) eye/hand coordination and I could see no reason why this gentleman stopped progressing. I worked with him and he just couldn't seem to do better. He was getting quite frustrated as the rest of our little group continued to get better and he did not.

In an effort to see what the problem was, I decided to run a Ransom Rest test with his ammo (.38 Special cast Wadcutters). We all pretty much suffered with a lack of "ready money" and it was "either cast our own bullets or don't shoot". We elected to cast.

I had worked with my own ammo until it would shoot, off the Ransom Rest, steady 3/4" groups at 25 yards (really good lots of Factory Remington and Western .38 HB WC's would do 5/8" from my PPC gun off the Ransom Rest). His ammo shot wild. As much as 12" groups at 25 yards. He was shooting an S&W Model 14 so I doubted it was his gun. I put some of my ammo in his gun and BINGO! it shot under an inch at 25 yards.

I had him bring to the club some samples of bullets he had cast. I had never seen such bad bullets in my life. He was using an H&G gang mould that he had bought used. It had been abused so badly before he got it that the cavities were offset. After the bullets were sized they were so off balance it is a wonder they would stay on the paper. I gave him a quantity of my bullets to try. He loaded up my bullets and they shot as well as my match quality ammo.

He got a better mould and his scores started to climb again alongside the rest of us. He was able to realize his potential. Now, we all have differing potential depending on our physical gifts, our willingness to work, and our dedication to the sport. However, it is near criminal to settle for third best (not second best but THIRD best) because we allow our quality standards to drop below what we are capable of. In my friends case, he was new to the sport had no idea what a good cast bullet SHOULD BE, and it is good to note that once he was shown, he got better IMMEDIATELY.

NOTE: There are those that disparage PPC shooting. Well, it certainly has it's limitations as a Combat Ready Course. However, in my opinion it offers a great deal to the aspiring handgun hunter or ANYONE who wants to become a good shot. It teaches you the value of good shot placement, it teaches you to shoot from cover (with a improvised rest) and from different positions. It also teaches a quick reload. It is MOST worthwhile if you want to become an all around handgun shooter.

Please excuse the long post...I needed to get this said.:mrgreen:

Dale53

[HeavyMetal]

Plus 1 on Dale's comments on the quality of the gear/ammo you use.

You can't do your best if your equipment can't give you the best!

I learned this lesson back in the 70's as well. I was shooting NRA Bullseye in a small gun club here in L.A. A little indoor range now long gone.

I started shooting the 22 matchs with a Ruger Mark II Bull Barrel pistol. I did well enough but sure wasn't sitting the world on fire.

About 3 months into the "match" year I bought a brand new 6 inch Colt Diamond Back in 22.

I originally bought it because I had always said Colt needed to make it and I disliked the look of the 4 inch gun, don't ask me why I couldn't tell you.

For what ever reason I took the Diamond Back to the next match and shot it instead of the Ruger.

I picked up 105 points over the prevoius match!

I finished the year with a trophy that still sits in my garage, only one I ever got to, and it show me everyday that you need the best to be the best.

[happy7]

All I am saying is that in my experience all I need to do is sort out the stick on wheel weights and my ammo shoots pretty good. Most of the shooting I do is plinking and when I am developing the loads I put them on paper and I can usually get my accurate handguns to group under 2" and once in a while under an inch at 25 yards. I believe wheel weight alloy is consistent enough not to make much practical difference in accuracy at 25 yards. I don't really know how much difference it will make, but if I can get what I am getting already, I doubt it is more than a quarter inch. Now for some applications that makes a difference. But the accuracy I am achieving is good enough for 98% of my shooting and good enough for cowboy action and action pistol as far as I am concerned. I certainly agree with you guys that more accuracy is sometimes desired and that a more consistent alloy is one of many things which can help achieve that.

And there are occasions when I do play with other alloys for certain guns that require them and for certain applications like hollowpoints or hollowbase. And that is fun. But for producing volume for going out to our informal range and blowing up water bottles and pushing cans around I don't worry about it.