NIB Ruger Stainless Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible

[Dale53]

Well, I have one of these on it's way to me (5½" Bisley Stainless .45/,45ACP convertible). I am fully familiar with Ruger .45 Colts but wonder how the convertibles shoot with the .45 ACP cylinder? I am interested in MATCH accuracy so someone who has NRA Bullseye or other match experience could be quite helpful.

I have no intention of shooting NRA Bullseye with this but AM interested in that level of accuracy (I have .45 ACP's on the 1911 platform for Bullseye) if it is possible.

I have had NO problems obtaining under 1" at 25 yards with a variety of Ruger single and double actions but wonder about the long "jump" to the throat with the ACP cylinder. I believe that this has been asked before, but I can't find it.

I load (and cast) for both so there are NO issues in that regard.

This certainly seems like a good concept. I can remember the original "Buckeye Special" convertibles but never owned one or knew anyone who did - hence the question. I Like stainless for a field revolver, I like the Bisley grip (have had a Bisley Vaquero in .45 Colt for years), and the convertible feature is enticing...IF it works.

Dale53

[Catshooter]

Dale,

From what I have seen and read the 'long jump to throat hurts accuracy' is an old wives tale.

Let us know how it shoots.


Cat

[454PB]

My .45 convertible is a blued NM Blackhawk I bought it in 1982. I too was concerned about that "long throat" with the .45 ACP cylinder. However, it shoots equally well with 325 gr. boolits in .45 Colt brass, or 200 gr. SWC boolits in .45 ACP brass. 2" to 2 1/2" groups at 50 yards are the norm from a solid rest.

[lathesmith]

Dale, I'm glad to see Ruger is finally chambering a convertible in Stainless. Since about all I buy these days is SS, I hadn't really been able to warm up to one of these. I tend to agree with Catshooter , that "long cylinder won't shoot" thing is just a myth. Look how well our 625's shoot, and their cylinder is virtually the same length as the 45 Colt or 44 mag in the N frame. Let us know how you like it!
lathesmith

[MT Gianni]

Mine is blue and the 45 acp chamber is the tightest chamber I load for with regard to oal and boolit diameter. Mine is a late 80's model, the 45 LC throats varied from .448-.451. None of the 6 were the same. Re-reaming fixed things.

[Dale53]

Well, I was already optimistic but with all of the assurances, even more so. Thanks, fellows, a bunch!

I really need another revolver like I need another hole in my head, but had an opportunity and "Academically" (A-hem!) wish to explore that region...

I'll keep you folks posted.

Dale53

[Thumbcocker]

I have had good luck with the Lyman 200 swc (452460??) and 231. The . 45 colt cylinder has been a disappointment but I hope that the group buy 454244 mould will help.

[Dale53]

Thumbcocker;
Have you measured the throats on your .45 Colt Cylinder? My Bisley Vaquero had rather small throats - I reamed them to the proper size. If you have a proper reamer (Brownell's has them) it is an easy task to ream properly (.4525"). That generaly solves the accuracy problem with .45 Colt Rugers.

I have read where Ruger is now reaming them correctly, but cannot verify until I get my new Convertible ("New Covertible", that has a nice ring to it:mrgreen:).

Dale53

[jandbn]

I recently got a NIB .45 Bisley SS 5 1/2 without the ACP cylinder; just have the Colt . (Didn't think I would want or need the ACP cylinder.) I slugged the throats on the Colt cylinder first thing when I got it and they were all .4518-.4519 as close as I could measure. I wasn't expecting that kind of consistancy considering many other posts with variance of throats.

[Dale53]

I slugged the throats on the Colt cylinder first thing when I got it and they were all .4518-.4519 as close as I could measure. I wasn't expecting that kind of consistancy considering many other posts with variance of throats.

My hopes is that they have "advanced" and are "doing the right thing".

My recent .44 Lipsey Special 5½" and 50th Anniversary .44 Magnum have near perfect throat dimensions. It would be super nice if the .45 Colt Bisley SS Convertible was also blessed...

I'll measure them as soon as the gun arrives (should be here in a couple of days).

Dale53

[jh45gun]

I got a friend that has an older Ruger with the convertable cylinder and it shoots fine. I do not know that much about the longer cylinder myth but I do know my 45 Colt/410 shoots just fine with the 45 Colt and the long chamber for the 410. Biggest thing what I found out is having good sights on the rib instead of using the bead and course rear sight. Then maybe I was blessed with a good barrel as mine shoots great with the add on Williams sights. So I suspect that the longer cylinder should not make that much of a difference.

[Dale53]

I talked to my supplier, and the revolver will probably not get here until the middle of next week. That should be NO problem (other than the fact that I am feeling like a kid waiting on Christmas). Truth is, I hope I always maintain that attitude of anticipation. It helps to make life worth living.[smilie=w:

Dale53

[beagle]

Dale, My Blackhawk convertible shoots better with ACP brass than it does .45 Colt. Of course, I have more ACP brass than .45 Colt so that I use it more.

Mine likes .451s in the ACP and .452 in the Colt cylinder but will take anything up to .454". They're definitely not picky./beagle

[Charlie Sometimes]

My 45 BH convertible is one of the older blue New Models (1979).
It shoots either 45 Colt or the 45 ACP very accurately from the 4 5/8" barrel.
I reamed the cylinder chamber throats to 0.452" on both cylinders (some were slightly smaller) to make all factors equal there- did trigger job and added a spring kit too.
I tailored my loads to match each others point of aim/ impact- 228 gr. boolit (8 gr. AA #5, taper crimped) in the ACP and 255 gr. (10 gr. AA #5, roll crimped) in the Colt.

I would LOVE to have a SS Convertable Bisley in 45 caliber for hunting!!!!!!
ENJOY!

[Dale53]

The more I hear, the more excited I become[smilie=w:.

I am really looking forward to this. I have a new NOE mould coming that should be just the "CAT's MEOW" with this new revolver.

Here's how versatile this platform is:
1 - .45 Colt including "Ruger only" loads.
2 - The full range of .45 ACP loads including those that would be
too heavy in the 1911 platform (heavy for the caliber 454424
bullets at 1000 fps). This should include light target loads that
really should shoot well with the small capacity .45 ACP case
(the light loads should not be position sensitive).
3 - I also will get to check out .45 Cowboy Special brass in the
.45 Colt and MAYBE in the .45 ACP cylinder (I'll need to check
out the headspace with these in this platform). The Auto Rim
cases, reportedly, will not fit the ACP cylinder due to lack of
headspace, but if they won't then maybe the Cowboy Specials
will.

The advantage, if you can call it that, is that the rimmed
Cowboy special will allow the use of a strong roll crimp on
heavy bullet loads using the .45 ACP cylinder. This is ONLY for
academic reasons. There is little reason to do this when
the gun comes with a .45 Colt cylinder which really ought to be
the place for heavy bullet loads, and using .45 Colt cases...

Lots of things to play with, that is for sure. Gee, I might even shoot it a bit[smilie=l:.

Dale53

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

there are always these questions re: "if you could only have one handgun, what would it be...?".

Simple answer here: one like you describe with a 4 5/8ths barrel.

Rich

[lathesmith]

Dale, you got some of those 45 Cowboy Specials? I picked up 500 recently, I am going to use them for a couple of very special projects. I have an 1860 Colt Army that I did a cartridge conversion on, and also a '58 Remmy. I got some of these 45 Specials because they will allow me to duplicate much more closely the load these guns were originally intended to fire-- a 160-200 grain bullet with around 22-25 grains of BP or sub. The Colt brass just has too much powder capacity for these, I don't really feel comfortable using full-case 45 Colt BP loads in these guns.

That's an interesting use you have in mind there for the 45 Specials, it ought to work fine. Since you use ACP dies to load them, they ought to be convenient to use in that Ruger cylinder. Great idea, and I also prefer rimmed cartridges in my single-action revolvers.
lathesmith

[Dale53]

lathesmith;
I bought a Taurus Tracker in .45 ACP. It looked to be a near perfect "Packin' Pistol" with a good trigger, and a great caliber. However, it had some serious "warts" for my use. The Tracker cylinder was quite short. It was chambered so I could not load ANY bullet with a any part of the bullet extending from the case (had really tight chambers). It would not chamber Auto Rim cases as the cylinder was not long enough to allow proper headspace for the thick rims (it used special extremely thin full moon clips for a five shooter). There was nothing mechanically imperfect about the gun except I couldn't live with it's design (entirely too finicky about overall length, etc).

One of the things I tried was the .45 Cowboy Special brass. It was a perfect fit for headspace and worked ok but still had the loading limitations that bugged me. Basically, it was set up to work just fine with jacketed SAAMI loads but was not user friendly for reloading. Another wanted it and away it went.

I bought 500 of the Cowboy Specials knowing that I have a .45 Colt Bisley Vaquero that I can use them in. Now, I have another platform for the cases.

Having stuff is ALWAYS good - not having stuff is NOT SO GOOD...

By the way, I got news that my new revolver may be here by Saturday[smilie=w:

Dale53

[Dale53]

I got that "magic call" this afternoon (Saturday) from my friendly dealer and picked up my new revolver (Ruger SS 5½" .45 Colt/.45ACP Convertible). The revolver is finished quite well, with NO obvious blemishes. The .45 Colt chambers appear to be "burnished" they are so smooth. The .45 Colt throats are just about perfect size (without pin gauges it's a bit difficult to tell). A .452 sized cast bullet will just BARELY (with some finger pressure) enter. All in all, the .45 Colt cylinder is about "good to go".

However, the .45 ACP cylinder throats are entirely too small. I can't begin to get a bullet of the correct size into the cylinder throat. This one will DEFINITELY see the reamer.

The barrel cylinder gap is about .004" on the .45 Colt and the .45 ACP is only about .002-.003". THAT is a GOOD thing.

The barrel is quite smooth. The fancy roll marked cylinder is VERY well done. The sights are properly BLACK on this gun (as they should be). The trigger pull is a bit heavy but not a bad pull at all. A wee bit of tuning and the trigger will be ready to work. The hammer is a bit difficult to cock. There was another new revolver lying there (same gun) and it had the same poor feel. I suspect that it's the hammer mainspring strut. They are stamped out of sheet metal and often are burred. That will be rather easy to fix (a critic would probably suggest that it's another Ruger "do it yourself" kit. I wouldn't go quite that far.

The thing is, with a little tuning, I will have a REALLY nice gun and with a bit of luck it'll be a shooter.

I guess that I know what I'll be doing tomorrow...

Dale53

[Snyd]

Congrats there Dale. I've been trying to find someone locally that someone would be willing to trade for my SBH. No luck at the gunshow today. If I can't swing a trade I may just sell the ol' 44 and buy one this winter.

It will be interesting to see how it shoots for you. Good to hear about the throats on the 45 Colt cylinder. I sent my 4" Redhawk 45 Colt cylinder to cylindersmith for reaming this summer. The throats were way tight. No way to push a .452 through.

[jandbn]

Dale53,

So how did the tune-up go? Hope you finished and had a chance to shoot some .45 Colt in it (I don't have the ACP cylinder). Extremely interested in the Colt results to see how it compares to mine. I also had to give mine a minor tune-up, but that was part of the fun and learning process. Fit on mine was ok, but finish left a lot to be desired; a lot of very small visible dings in the sharp corners , a couple spots where dents/casting flaws were not ground and polished out of the grip frame, and the trigger WAS rough and creepy.

[Dale53]

Well, I stripped the Bisley convertible down. It was clean inside (really too dry but clean). There were a number of "rough edges" that I smoothed. It now cocks smoothly. The mainspring is REALLY heavy, but NOT a problem. I will not change that but welcome the faster lock time of a heavy spring.

The trigger pull is now 3.5 lbs. I may reduce it to my preferred 3.0 lb for a field pistol but it is likely I'll leave that alone. The trigger has a bit of creep, still, but is now smooth. I'll wait until I shoot it a couple of times before doing anything else.

The cylinder reamer will not be available to me for another week or so (owner is on the west coast) so I will not be shooting the ACP cylinder. However, I WILL be hitting the range yet this week to try the .45 Colt cylinder out (along with the rest of the revolver:mrgreen:).

Dale53

[jandbn]

I think I lucked out with my .45 Colt cylinder. All throats were just shy of .4519. I am going to shoot it for a while just to "get some lead under my belt" before deciding if I want to have the throats reamed. I think that the throats are consistant enough, at least for now, that the revolver will still out shoot my skill level. I don't cast so for a hunting load, I started with some CP 325 {edit from WFN to LFN} LFNPBs. 21.0, 21.7, and 22.4 of H110 gave some good groups to start with the two times I've been out with the revolver. But, my poor shooting abilty always opened the groups up. If my "flyers" were thrown out, group sizes were about half of the actual group size. I always had a nice cluster and then would throw one or two out. The nice clusters went from about 1 1/8 to 1 3/4 center to center from a rest @ 25 yds, and then I had to pull one to the side. Not much for veritcal stringing, but most "flyers" went horizontal. My skill level along with eyes needing glasses tell me the revolver is capable, but I'm not. Hopefully some practice (alot) will give the revolver a chance to "show off" its stuff.

I just love the look of the 5 1/2 SS Bisley. It was love at first sight and my wife is jealous that I've spent so much time with it. She didn't complain though when she got to shoot it with some Trail Boss!

[targetshootr]

Nice going. I had a chance to buy one for $400 once and didn't have the money. Man oh man. Anyhow, my blue 45 Bisley with the extra heavy mainspring shoots better than all my other 45s.

[Dale53]

I took my Ruger apart to tune it. The hammer/mainspring strut was NOT burred. I did smooth the edges but it really didn't need it. The problem was rough machining on the hammer. I used a ceramic stone and smoothed up where necessary. I also smoothed the trigger sear (it actually was not too bad).

I have solved the rough cocking and it operates MUCH nicer.

I loaded a hundred rounds of ammo (454424 Keith clone with WW's + 2% tin ahead of a target load of Bullseye with Federal 150 LP primers). I sighted in the revolver and shot it a bit. Off the bench it was shooting quite well. I then moved to standing. I noticed that the longer I shot the more the shots were "not on call". I popped the cylinder out (.45 Colt cylinder) and the mouth of several of the cylinder throats were seriously leading. Further examination showed that the barrel was leading on the trailing edges. All signs of a bullet being sized down in the "too small" throats then failing to obturate leading to gas cutting and barrel leading seriously reducing accuracy.

I'm not particularly surprised but a bit "put off". Ruger HAS to know proper dimensions and yet they continue to screw this up (I understand their response to this is "our guns are built for factory ammo"). Well, whatever their response, the guns won't shoot to their potential without proper cylinder throat dimensions.

If I didn't have access to a proper cylinder throat reamer I would immediately send both cylinders off to the Cylindersmith. However, I should be able to use the reamer in about week. I will report further when that has been accomplished.

I am still VERY positive about this revolver. The general configuration and materials used is first rate. It's just in some of the details that Ruger has not quite been "up to the mark".

Well, we'll just have to help them a bit :mrgreen:.

Further reports when the information is at hand...

Dale53

[targetshootr]

They should go ahead and ship a reamer with their guns. Or maybe a note to have the throats checked out.

[Dale53]

targetshootr;
I believe the reason that the factories get away with this is that most purchasers do not shoot much and have no idea how well a good revolver WILL shoot. They probably get few complaints.

What "grinds me" is that if you go back to 1936, Elmer Keith mentioned proper cylinder throat sizes and criticized Colt for their poor dimensions. Since then, a virtual parade of writers and a number of well known gunsmiths have stated what has now become the obvious. The factories (including S&W, Colt, and Ruger) have been VERY slow to address this. I am a big Smith fan but wouldn't own a Model 25 unless I could slug the barrel throats before I bought it. They, of course, often ran .456"-.458". If the throats are too small, you can relatively easily ream or have them reamed for little money. However, if they are too large you are pretty much "up the proverbial creek".

Bottom line, this should be an easy fix and if Ruger cared, at all, they would build these right to begin with. The sad part about it, is that they do so MANY things right, then cap it off with THIS...

Dale53

[targetshootr]

I agree Dale, it's like they're cruising along nicely and at the last minute they have a meltdown. But at least they're not like the 25s. I lucked out on mine, it's a pinned model and the throats are just right. The front blade is too low though.

[Dale53]

targetshootr;
My Model 29 (8 3/8" barrel) had a front sight that was not high enough. It absolutely could NOT be zero'd with factory spec ammo. However, since the front sight was pinned, it was an easy fix. Smith has several different heights available. There is a formula for front sight height, do the formula to determine WHAT you need regarding height and call Smith (I'm presuming here that your sight is pinned). You may have to buy it but it won't cost much and you'll be in "Tall Clover":mrgreen:

Dale53

[targetshootr]

It's not pinned-in so one day I'll probably send it to be milled off and a new one pinned-in and then cold blued to save money. It has a nice sa trigger though and it would be a favorite if not for the blade and the serrated trigger. It needs to go too.

Oh, my 8 3/8" 29-2 is exactly like yours was.