smith to re chamber a sweed?

[Bullshop]

I got me this here Sweed looooong barrel rifle and I want to use 06 brass in it. I need to have the barrel set back and want it rechambered for 6.5/06 imp. Magazine length dont matter one whitt to me. Aint nobody up here worth a hoot for such things. I know some a you got pet smiths tucked away so how bout sharing.
All opinions on smiths and my project in general welcome and incouraged.
Maybe someone should just trade me outa the Sweed.
BIC/BS

[StarMetal]

I got me this here Sweed looooong barrel rifle and I want to use 06 brass in it. I need to have the barrel set back and want it rechambered for 6.5/06 imp. Magazine length dont matter one whitt to me. Aint nobody up here worth a hoot for such things. I know some a you got pet smiths tucked away so how bout sharing.
All opinions on smiths and my project in general welcome and incouraged.
Maybe someone should just trade me outa the Sweed.
BIC/BS

Dan,

For cast loads or jacketed.....or both?

Joe

[jhrosier]

Since you asked....

If you have a Swede '96 that is not already hacked up, it is worth some decent money to a milsurp collector. You might want to reconsider altering it. But then it is your rifle, not mine. I traded one of mine even up for a S&W 634 revolver a few months ago.

The 6.5x55 cartridge is a pretty darn good cartridge wihtout any improvement. Seems like a waste of effort to make it burn more powder for not much more velocity. Brass for the 6.5x55 Swede can be made easily and safely from 30-06 brass. I made and used hundreds of rounds from'06 brass when the 'correct' brass was not available. Despite the theory that the Swede cartridge is about 0.007" larger at the base than the 30-06, I measured a bunch of each and could never see much difference in size. I didn't manage to blow myself up when my home brew brass had to expand maybe .002".

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Jack

[BABore]

What would happen, long after your demise, should someone chamber and fire a full house, 6.5-06 jacketed load in it.

[Trifocals]

Not being positive without a little research, I ask this question. How many locking lugs does the Swede action have? Does it have the safety lug? Since these are older rifles the heat treatment should always be questioned. IMHO the rifle should be left in it's present chambering. Far better to be within safe limits than to end up with a mess of shrapnel that you or a future owner of the rifle may or may not escape unscathed.

[StarMetal]

I wouldn't rechamber to 6.5-06, but would use 06 brass in it if I had a bunch of of it or was striving for accuracy. The 06's formed to 6.5 Swede have thicker necks which will center the bullet better.

Although the 6.5-06 is one storming 6.5, I hear the cats meow is the 6.5-284 and there's factory brass already made for that.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Since you asked....

If you have a Swede '96 that is not already hacked up, it is worth some decent money to a milsurp collector. You might want to reconsider altering it. But then it is your rifle, not mine. I traded one of mine even up for a S&W 634 revolver a few months ago.

The 6.5x55 cartridge is a pretty darn good cartridge wihtout any improvement. Seems like a waste of effort to make it burn more powder for not much more velocity. Brass for the 6.5x55 Swede can be made easily and safely from 30-06 brass. I made and used hundreds of rounds from'06 brass when the 'correct' brass was not available. Despite the theory that the Swede cartridge is about 0.007" larger at the base than the 30-06, I measured a bunch of each and could never see much difference in size. I didn't manage to blow myself up when my home brew brass had to expand maybe .002".

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Jack

Jack,

I bought me up a bunch of PMC 6.5 Swede brass and I have some Norma and are way fatter at the web then any of the 06 I have measured both military and commercial. As for the belief that 6.5 commercial brass with fit an 06 shell holder, none of mine does.

Joe

[felix]

I would chamber for 0.001 total neck clearance. In doing so, make sure the brass is 0.011 in the neck after turning. Use 264 sized boolits, and select twist based upon boolit length at 2400 fps. Go for an odd number of lands, like 7, at 0.004-5 height. Select case size to make that 2400 with a medium speed rifle powder with your heaviest boolit. ... felix

[Bullshop]

This is to be for jacketed bullets for hunting caribou at fairley long range.
Cupla reasons, I have had the 6.5/06 IMP dies for many years and have put off the erge.
The factory chamber streaches 06 based brass more than I care for at the head/web area. I dont want to buy Sweed brass when I have so much 06 brass, and I want more oomph than the Sweed.
I have no concern about the strength of the action holding up to what I will do with it.
The Sweed I had rebarreled to 257 Roberts prooved that to me. Also the fact that Kimber re made some into 22/250's and 257's kinda confirms the strength issue.
Felix ya kinda missed the boat Pard, I am not going for a new barrel but sticking with that incredibly long origonal barrel. I figure with an 06 IMP case full up with a real slow powder and heavy bullet that long barrel should do good in the velocity department at fairly low pressure.
I have considered the 6.5/284 but that brings up issues again of buying brass and there is a possibility of the 06 case fitting in and feeding from the mag where I wouldnt expect the fat 284 case to feed.
The simple truth is I have wanted a 6.5/06 for a long long time and this may be the only way it will ever happen. BTW once long ago I had a first model Newton rifle in 256 Newton. I shot one elk with it running from me. I planted the 129gn Losler partition in his flank and recovered it from the neck on the oposite side. He dropped in his tracks and I was impressed with the caliber.
BIC/BS

[StarMetal]

This is to be for jacketed bullets for hunting caribou at fairley long range.
Cupla reasons, I have had the 6.5/06 IMP dies for many years and have put off the erge.
The factory chamber streaches 06 based brass more than I care for at the head/web area. I dont want to buy Sweed brass when I have so much 06 brass, and I want more oomph than the Sweed.
I have no concern about the strength of the action holding up to what I will do with it.
The Sweed I had rebarreled to 257 Roberts prooved that to me. Also the fact that Kimber re made some into 22/250's and 257's kinda confirms the strength issue.
Felix ya kinda missed the boat Pard, I am not going for a new barrel but sticking with that incredibly long origonal barrel. I figure with an 06 IMP case full up with a real slow powder and heavy bullet that long barrel should do good in the velocity department at fairly low pressure.
I have considered the 6.5/284 but that brings up issues again of buying brass and there is a possibility of the 06 case fitting in and feeding from the mag where I wouldnt expect the fat 284 case to feed.
The simple truth is I have wanted a 6.5/06 for a long long time and this may be the only way it will ever happen. BTW once long ago I had a first model Newton rifle in 256 Newton. I shot one elk with it running from me. I planted the 129gn Losler partition in his flank and recovered it from the neck on the oposite side. He dropped in his tracks and I was impressed with the caliber.
BIC/BS

Dan,

The thing I don't like about doing the 6.5/284 on the Swede is that 284 case is fat and means even less meat on that chamber. You're better off with the 06 case if you're going that route.

Two bad you don't have a lathe you could do it all yourself and rent the reamer.

Good luck with your project.

Joe

[jhrosier]

Jack,

I bought me up a bunch of PMC 6.5 Swede brass and I have some Norma and are way fatter at the web then any of the 06 I have measured both military and commercial. As for the belief that 6.5 commercial brass with fit an 06 shell holder, none of mine does.

Joe

Joe,
I don't doubt your results, or mine. It seems that the cartridge manufacturers each have their own ideas about the sizes of some cases, despite SAAMI specs. I've been told that recent Remington 6.5 Swede brass is identical in head size to '06 but I don't have any to measure. When you throw in the variations in size of barrel chambers and handloading dies, and the metalurgy/heat treat of the cases, it only gets more confusing. It seems that an informed opinion and some good old empirical testing is about all we have to work with.

Jack

[Dutchman]

Using a m/96 Swede for 6.5-'06 Improved is suicidal. If not for the shooter certainly for the fellow (or his child) next to him at the range. It is a gross excess for the m/96 action.

The best action for this would be a U.S. Model 1917 or 1903 Springfield with a double heattreat action or nickel steel or a 1903A3 action.

The number of locking lugs is irrelevant. The 98 Mauser has only 2 locking lugs. The Swede has 2 locking lugs. The Mauser 98 has a much stronger action aside from the number of locking lugs and a vastly superior gas escape system than any other Mauser action.

6.5x55 Norma and Lapua brass are correct head diameter. American Remington and Winchester 6.5x55 brass use .30-06 case head for making this and it is undersized. Thusly, shell holders for .30-06 or 8x57 are too small for Norma & Lapua brass.

Sincerely.... nobody in their right mind would have anything to do with 6.5-'06 let alone "Improved" in a 1893 Mauser action... which is what the Swede action is aside from a couple manufacturing expedients to streamline production.

Are you aware of locking lug failures in the Swedish action? Do you know the result?

It usually kills the shooter. That you have no concern for the strength of the Swede action indicates you have no knowledge in this area.

Are you aware as to the reason the Swedish Mauser was withdrawn from military use in Sweden? The only exception today is the Livguard, the 1st kavalry which guards the palace in Stockholm and those m/94 carbines are carried on horseback loaded, cocked with safety on at all times. All other military use of the Mauser in Sweden was stopped when a bolt failed and killed the young soldier.

So far this is the most ill advised thing I've seen on this forum. Your theory of low pressure and slow powder does not take into account 100 years of use and a little thing called metal fatigue.
You knew that it was cumulative didn't you?

I've run out of polite ways to say how stupid this idea is.... :veryconfu


Dutch :violin:

[Bullshop]

Dutch
Your advice is well taken but please if you would explain to me why if left as is or rechambered and used to the same pressure would there be any differance?
I just can not understand why its OK one way but not the other.
You didnt mention anything about all the rifles re manufactured by Kimber to 22/250 , 243, and 257 Roberts. Do you feel that those are unsafe conversions? They seemed to be well done rifles and I have never heard of any problems arising from them.
It just seems to me that if it were as you say a suicidal act then the Kimber company would have considered that. I am not trying to rub your feathers the wrong way but because as you say I may be ignorant I would like to get to the truth.
Thanks for your help.
BIC/BS

[Dutchman]

explain to me why if left as is or rechambered and used to the same pressure would there be any differance?

What is the maximum average chamber pressure for 6.5-'06 Improved?

What is the maximum average chamber pressure for Swedish military 6.5x55 m/41 skarp patron?

Get back to us when you can show us on paper that these two cartridges operate at the same maximum average chamber pressure. Not what you'd do with it, but what the actual numbers are. Technical evidence, not hearsay.




You didnt mention anything about all the rifles re manufactured by Kimber to 22/250 , 243, and 257 Roberts. Do you feel that those are unsafe conversions?

Am I required to address every single conversion in order to make a point?

The Kimber conversions were not a good idea. They're not safe. The conversions to .22-250, .243 WCF and .308 WCF exceed prudent limits of the m/96 action. Just because some fool does something you think that erases all prudent caution? Get real. Kimber did those conversions to make money.



They seemed to be well done rifles and I have never heard of any problems arising from them.

This is one of my favorite lines of reasoning with this kind of issue. Because YOU haven't heard of any problems.... there were no problems. Are you aware of every single Swedish Mauser failure in the last 100 years? How about just the last 20 years? 10 years? Have you heard of ANY Swedish Mauser failures? Ever? I guess what you "heard" has no merit when discussing the relative safety of Swedish Mausers.



It just seems to me that if it were as you say a suicidal act then the Kimber company would have considered that.

The issue of this thread wasn't/isn't Kimber or the calibers of conversions Kimber did. The issue is you and the caliber of conversion you brought up. This is where you need to focus your argument. Not with Kimber.

It matters not a whit to me what you do with your rifle. What matters is the person who reads your words and gives them credibility because nobody bothered to point out the foolishness of the idea. There is nothing about what you proposed to do that would be considered "smart". The really smart thing would be to present ideas that are consistent with technically safe rifle action conversions. Nobody would raise an eyebrow if you suggested this conversion for a 98 Mauser action or high number 1903 Springfield or Model 1917 action. But you picked a MUCH weaker and inferior action. There's no definition of "intelligent" that fits that suggestion. Trying to justify your thought process by crowding the issue with Kimber isn't going to cut it.

I've said my peace and am officially done with this subject. Unlike some in this forum I don't feel the need to go on and on ad nauseum trying to win an argument.


Dutch

[Bullshop]

Thanks Dutch, I appreciate your input! Where once I was ignorant I am no longer.
Thanks to you too Larry! I can now sift the wheet from the chaf!
Blessings
BIC/BS

[StarMetal]

Good advice from Dutch. I've researched it some and the maximum allowable CUP/SAAMI pressure for the 6.5-06 is 63,000 psi piezo. For the 6.5x55 it's 51,000 psi.

Some members have built, and gotten away with, high pressure rounds on small ring mausers. I'm with Dutch, I don't agree with it.

When dealing with old collector cars it is talked about metal fatigue, especially in critical areas such as the frames. I ask then can't such metal fatigue occur in nearly 100 year old rifles?

Bullshop, that Swede will shoot very very flat as is. You would not believe what the 6.5 Grendel crowd is doing with a 6.5 bullet that is much slower then what the Swede will throw. The 6.5-06 will just give you a slightly flatter trajectory then a Swede and little more velocity. That's at the expense of more powder, recoil, and barrel wear.

Joe

[MT Gianni]

If you can find the right platform I really am sold on the idea of that cartridge. I bought a 280 Rem last year when I was looking to find a 6.5x06 but an improved would be a great Antelope/Caribou gun. Then there are those coyotes that just won't come in.

[docone31]

The only 6.5-06 I ever saw was in an O3-A3. It was an high numbers and had been changed. I never saw it fired though.
If I were to do a Swede, it would be from a Turk Mauser, marked K-Kale. The Swede barrel will fit directly in the action with removal of the upper stock ring on the reciever. The Turk Mauser is a Large ring, small ring thread.
A rechamber is all that is neccessary. The action has the length, strength, and the stock from the Turk will still fit. At least the lower stock.
I would leave the 6.5 X 55 the way it is. It is a dynamic round as it is.

[NoDakJak]

Abut twenty years ago I decided that I couldn't exist without a 6.5-06 and had my old friend Bud Hanson of Pine Ridge Gunshop build me one. Yes, it was accurate and shot flat but in practical use it didn't do anything better than my 25.06 or 270. When a young feller offered me a decent price for it I let him have it and have never regretted the fact. I let the 25.06 and 270 go also. Most of my deer and antelope hunting is done with a custom 250 Savage and a 30.06. A few years ago some 6.5 X 55, Model 98 barreled actions came in from Denmark. The barrels were Schultz and Larsen match grade, light bull barrels. I am in the process of restocking one at the present time. Should make an outstanding antelope rifle.
Neil

[Bret4207]

I have a 6.5-06 on an FN Mauser action with a heavy barrel. I put some very hot loads through it and while the speed is impressive the throat erosion was terrible.

[Char-Gar]

I am a fan of the 6.5-05 round for a hunting round. I had one for a number of years. I like it best with the 140 grain bullets. It is flat shooting and hard hitting.

Barrel twist for the 6.5-05 is most often 1-9, but I built mine with a 1-10 for I was not interested in the long 160 grain bullets. 140s and 120s were more to my liking.

I really would not try and turn a Swede into a 6.5-06 for a number of reasons. There are to many compromises and caveats in such a project. Better to do it right if you want a 6.5-06.

[lmcollins]

Dan: I hope you aren't freezing off your backside about now. The winter I spent at Eielson AFB the first snow that stuck did so about late September.

I have rebarreled and built-up several Swedes from parts action from SARCO, and new Mod 38 barrels from Gun Parts Co. The only actionI'd think about doingiing something like redoing into something hipressure would be a Mod 38 Receiver. I had one made by Husquavarna in 1938. If you could get one of those fine. I am certain the heat treatment was better by then. P. O. Ackley used to say that any Mauser made before about 1930 was to be suspect.

The other thing about your rifle would be the barrel: Take an 06 case and hold it about where it would go against the bolt face with the action closed. I don't think that the chamber re-enforce is long enough. The 6.5x55 has a very small shoulder compared to even a regular 06 case. An improved would be even bigger and further ahead towards the muzzle.

When was your action made: late 1800's or early 1900's.

[Bullshop]

The age was something I han not considered. It says Carl Gustafs 1909.
It has the long barrel with a threaded cap at the muzzle. The action has been D&T and the bolt handle forged for scope.
I have given up on the idea of a hot 6.5 from it. I am just going to sell it and another 6.5 I have. The other is a jap carbine in 6.5/257.
I will consider any reasonable offer for both or either. Trades welcome.
BIC/BS