Marlin 1894CS accuracy problem

[KY_Camper]

I had a good/bad day at the range the other day trying out a couple of “new to me” rifles. First the good. I borrowed a recipe from here and loaded up some low power rounds for my Winchester 94 30-30. I used a Lee C309-180R (185 grains wheel weight) on top of 11 grains of Herc 2400 using old dryer sheets for filler. I only shot at 50 yards, but had a group right at 7/8 of an inch. I was very pleased. A lot of fun, but the guys kept giving me a bad time about my “Downy fresh powder”! :smile:

Then the bad. I tried my Marlin 1894CS .38/.357 with some loads that have worked very well for me in my revolver. It is a Hornady 158 grain SWC over 12 grains of 2400. At 50 yards I couldn’t hit the target. At 25 yards I had a group at least 18 inches wide (those that hit the target). Not happy at all. I was using a rest so I knew it wasn’t me. I took the scope off and tried the iron sights. Same result. Not the scope. Came home and did some measuring. First I slugged the rifle. The slugs measure .358. Seems a little large, but now that I know it I can work with it. Maybe that’s why I got such a good deal on it? Then I measured those Hornady slugs. They are advertized at .358, they measure .357. A little on the small size. I have some All American lead 158 gr SWC advertized at .358. They measure .3585. I bought a Lee mold #358158. It throws an unsized boolit that measure .360.

By the way, there was no lead fowling in either rifle, though I am surprised I didn’t have any with the undersized .357.

Here’s my thoughts:
1. Melt down the Hornady slugs and reuse the lead.
2. Try the All American slugs and if they work, great, if they don’t, melt them down.
3. Try the Lee unsized and see what happens or size them to .359?

Am I on the right track? Unfortunately with my schedule it may be weeks before I can get out again, but I would like to hear your thoughts before I load up some more rounds.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

First off I would not melt down any ready to load boolits just yet. They might be of more value on the Boolit Exchange then for smelting alloy.

Seeing as you did not have any leading the boolits should have been expanding adequately. Yes a bigger diameter boolit from your Lee mould might be a good idea, but the diameter of the SWC alone should not have been enough to result in an 18” group.

First question how does the problem lever gun do with factory ammo? Run a few dummy rounds through the gun and check the noses, perhaps your reloads are being badly damaged in the cycling process resulting in the terrible accuracy. Are you having a lot of unburned powder left behind in the gun? I remember the first time I loaded some 357s with a ball powder, my load was not compressed resulting in terrible accuracy and lots of unburned powder.

[Wally]

I have one and size my bulets to .359"..few loads are inaccurate in mine. I have found the heaviest .38 Cal bullets are the least accurate. Last summer I used a Lyman 356402 120 TC 9mm bullet sized to .359" and 6.0 grains of Bullesye..it was wonderfully accurate and gave me about 1,400 FPS. I did load into the carbine as a single shot

[KY_Camper]

Thanks for the quick replys!

I ran some rounds through the action this morning to check for damage and they went through with no problems and no damage.

There was very little residue of any kind left in the barrel. The gun was very easy to clean. I've seen worse from standing a rifle in the corner for a couple of months.

I have not tried factory ammo yet. I bought some 158 gr jhp but haven't tried it yet. With Wally's suggestion, I will buy some smaller factory ammo to try as well.

Wally, were you using that in 38 brass or 357 brass?

Thanks again!

[softpoint]

Those Hornady bullets are soft swaged, I believe. You might try a lighter load in that rifle. Say, 3gr. Bullseye, just to see if it will shoot 'em. 12gr. 2400 might be pushing them too hard. Is it Microgroove?

[KY_Camper]

One more thing to try, another excuse to get to the range! [smilie=w:

Yes, it is microgroove.

[Wally]

Thanks for the quick replys!

I ran some rounds through the action this morning to check for damage and they went through with no problems and no damage.

There was very little residue of any kind left in the barrel. The gun was very easy to clean. I've seen worse from standing a rifle in the corner for a couple of months.

I have not tried factory ammo yet. I bought some 158 gr jhp but haven't tried it yet. With Wally's suggestion, I will buy some smaller factory ammo to try as well.

Wally, were you using that in 38 brass or 357 brass?

Thanks again!

I used .357 Magnum brass for the load mentioned. I was astounded that it was quite accurate out to 100 yards. The carbine alos works beautifully with virtually any .38 SPL load.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I have not tried factory ammo yet.

Camper,

In general both 38 and 357 factory ammo is pretty good as far as accuracy is concerned. If your rifle still shoots an 18” group with factory ammo, that is bad news because you could have a lemon Marlin. Should factory ammo shoot acceptable that is good news because then you just need to do a little load development.

Good luck.

[BABore]

Those Hornady's are almost pure lead. I've shot a bunch of them for Silhoutte using 5 grains of WW 231, CCI 500, in mag brass. Your driving them way-way too fast in a levergun. Really surprised your getting no leading. I wouldn't be surprised if you skidded them halfway down the tube.

[beagle]

Camper...I have one and it likes bigger bullets. All my .38/357 stuff gets sized .3585 as I have a sizer die that runs that diameter and both the Marlin and a couple of Ruger Blackhawks gobble them up.

I have goten 1 5/8" groups with mine at 100 yards with a 358429 deep seated and 11.8 grains of 2400.

Good little rifles. Keep after it./beagle

[KY_Camper]

Thanks again for the help. Looks like I am stuck at the desk for the next week or so, but I have several things to try once I can get out again.

The help here is great!

[KY_Camper]

I finally got out to the range again yesterday afternoon. The problem is not the rifle. I took 5 different factory loads (both .357 mag and .38 spl) with me and at 25 yrds the largest group was 1.6 inches. I also had a 1.6 inch group at 50 yards and a 3 inch group at 100 yards. I only shot one group of each load, not enough to come to any conclusions about which load was best, but more than enough to know the rifle is good. Not a tack driver (at least with me doing the driving[smilie=l:), but this was with factory loads, and knowing my own abilities, were well within what I would have expected.

Now I get to spend some time developing a load this rifle will like![smilie=w:

Thanks for all your help!

[9.3X62AL]

Late to this party--sorry.

I agree that your soft Hornady swaged boolits were getting kicked WAY too hard in the Marlin. Harder boolits sized a mite wider will likely shoot a whole lot better, and perhaps a gas-check design might pay off for you if you run boolits past 1400 FPS.

[KY_Camper]

I agree that your soft Hornady swaged boolits were getting kicked WAY too hard in the Marlin. Harder boolits sized a mite wider will likely shoot a whole lot better, and perhaps a gas-check design might pay off for you if you run boolits past 1400 FPS.

Now that I know a LITTLE more than I did I plan to start with a harder, wider, slower load and see where I go.

Life is a learning experiance.

[machinisttx]

I can't offer any firsthand experience since my wife's 1894CP has ballard rifling, but from reading John Taffin, the microgroove barrels prefer gas checked bullets.