Results with my new NOE Lyman 454424 Clone

[Dale53]

I got my mould today. I carefully examined the mould. It weighs just under 2 lbs with the handles (Lee) installed. Substantial...

The cavities are just flat out gorgeous - could not be better looking.

It appears that there is one corner of the sprue plate that is dragging (it appears like it may have been slightly "tweeked" by the Post Office. At any rate, I removed any suggestion of a burr completely around the sprue plate. The sprue cavities are nice and large which should help with fill out of the bases. The cavities are not joined.

Holding the mould up to the light, it was NOT possible to see ANY light between the sprue plate and the mould blocks (and I TRIED[smilie=1:)

The mould blocks mate EXACTLY - NO light leaks, there, either. Hmmm...

I installed the handles (Lee) and carefully scrubbed the blocks and sprue plate with a toothbrush and liquid hand detergent - TWICE.

I pre-heated the blocks on my hot plate while waiting for the alloy to melt (WW's + 2% tin). After everything was up to heat I started casting.

It only took two or three moulds full to have the mould blocks up to heat and throwing perfect bullets. Then, with the blocks full of bullets, I used Bullshop Sprue Plate lube on the top of the blocks around the bullet bases, the top and bottom of the sprue plate then wiped everything off. I apparently got some sprue plate lube in the bullet cavities. Grrrr:groner: . I hate it when that happens and it took longer than I liked to start running perfect bullets. This has happened to me before and, no doubt, will again. However, it is worth the aggravation to protect the mould blocks as I intend to have this mould for a long time.

I started running perfect moulds full with ALL bullets cast near perfect. It didn't take long to empty my RCBS pot of it's 20 lbs of bullets (I leave some in the bottom for a heat sink as I believe it helps keep the elements from overheating).

When things were running good, I pulled all five bullets from one mould full and set them aside to weigh and measure.

The bullets weighed 252.2 - 252.4 grs weight. I have never seen better uniformity between different cavities. Just a few years ago, I would have said that this was impossible. It equals my MiHec H&G #68 clone in uniformity.

The bullets diameter is .456"+ and the bullets are less than a thousandth of an inch out of round. I would have preferred that the bullets measured no larger than .454" but this is what I have. I size to .452" for my revolvers. This is a major disappointment. I recently sold a perfectly good Lyman four cavity 454424 mould because it cast too large (.456-.457") and I was excited with this upcoming Group Buy that was spec'ed at .454"..

The meplat is about .325" (not easy to measure). The distance from the crimp groove to base is also .325" (should work VERY well in the .45 Auto Rim). I will be using this bullet in my Ruger Bisley Vaquero .45 Colt, my S&W 625's (both .45 ACP's) and my two Taurus Raging Bull .454 Casulls.

With the deep, square grease groove and large beveled crimp groove (as per Elmer Keith's specs) I was a bit concerned that these bullets may not be easy to coax from the mould. The design is NOT one of the most mould friendly designs. However, I tapped the hinge while opening and a total of three or four taps and the bullets fell out. It was obvious from watching the bullets reaction, that there were NO burrs or machining errors that made them difficult to fall - merely the bullet design. In other words, as good as can possibly be expected, given the specs wanted for OTHER reasons (bullet performance). THIS IS GOOD!

The sprue plate is thick steel and I kept a large sprue on top to keep it heated for best performance (I am a bottom pour man). I kept about 1" between the spout and the sprue plate. In spite of the lack of "connection" between the sprue cavities, the sprue remained in one piece for easy return to the pot (I return sprues right after dropping them so I get maximum amount of bullets from each pot). The handle screws are "below flush" so did NOT interfere with the mould rest. Kudos to NOE.

One thing I neglected to mention. After the mould is up to heat, I can easily "twist" the sprue plate by hand (no need to use a knocker). I prefer the "normal" sprueplate that comes on these moulds as opposed to the Lee style with a cam operated sprue plate handle. It is not needed and is just something else to fail (see "Heavy Lead", below)...

I don't believe that I have seen better workmanship. It is, at least, equal to the best I have seen. Swede Nelson and the NOE crew can be proud of their efforts. I especially appreciate the clear, full, mould numbers and logo on the blocks. This should be a model for ALL manufacturers. I have close to seventy moulds and it is a pain to try to "guess" which mould is which.

Dale53, from the casting barn...(with a smile on his face).

[Heavy lead]

I received my mould yesterday. This morning the mould was cleaned with hot water and dawn and dried, soaked in denatured alcohol, then commenced to casting. I found this mould likes to run hot, unlike most I do not use a casting thermometer, so I just wing the temperature, once I had the temperature to the sweet spot so the sprue was able to be opened with just a gloved hand rather than a tap from the mallet the fillout was perfect and I set to cast a couple hundred rather quickly. With 50/50 wheel weights/pure with 2% tin added the lubed and sized to .454 boolits weighed just north of 252 grains.
I did not do nearly the workup and critic of the mould as Dale53 did, but nevertheless I agree with him 100% on this mould. Terrific, as is my 358429, and will buy more.
FWIW, I like the 5 cavity design and the lack of the cam-opening sprue handle, IMO it's not needed, as well as the larger block size (compared to the size of the Lee blocks).
Thanks for the great product and workmanship Swede.

[45 2.1]

This mold is a remake of the original Catshooter GB. The design was spec'd to drop at 0.454". If your looking for those specs, BRP Custom Molds has that, which was proofed out before the order went in to Lee for the first GB.

[SwedeNelson]

Dale53

"This is a major disappointment. I recently sold a perfectly good Lyman four cavity 454424 mould because it cast too large (.456-.457") and I was excited with this upcoming Group Buy that was spec'ed at .454".."

We cut the cavities to drop a bullet at .4545 to .455 with our wheel weight material.
Send the mould back and we will make you one that will run .4535 to .454.
We will cover the postage both ways and no charge to you.
We do stand by are moulds.

Update:
Your mould is in the works - will ship it out as soon as it is finished along with a return shipping
box for the mould you have.

Regards
Swede Nelson

[Dale53]

Swede;
A feller cannot ask for more than that. I submit that there may be someone out there with a need for a larger mould and I can sure recommend this particular one if it meets their specs.

Dale53

[Frozone]

Dale53 , Swede Nelson,

I'm interested in that mold if you want to make a sale.
I tried out my new 3 cav + hp yesterday with 30/1 alloy.
It was dropping a little small at .4525 - .453.
Now I admit I wasn't getting good fillout, I had the alloy too cool (at least cooler than I usually run) as well as the mold. I was trying to keep mold temp below 400 and never did get things going well. I recleaned the mold last night and I'll run a new batch in an hour or 2.

Update:
I just finished ~600 boolits, No Keepers in the bunch!!! Alloy varied from 600 - 775, mold from as hot as my hotplate will get it ( ~ 380) to dipped in the melt until the sprue took > 15 sec to harden.
Some were close - at the temp extreme melt ~775, mold as hot as I dared to get it. But there was always a wrinkle somewhere. These were Ladle cast with a RCBS ladle /w enlarged hole.
Venting Problem????

Size is OK. ~ .453 - .454 with 30/1 should be close to spec with WW.
Very round ( <> .0005) but hole #2 is sticky.

[Dale53]

Frozone;
Swede will have to make the decision on selling to you (I'll follow his instructions on the matter).

Regarding your "wrinkles" - in almost every case of "wrinkles" is has been that the mould is not clean. I suggest another strong cleaning (I use hand detergent and a vigorous scrubbing with a toothbrush - rinse in VERY hot water and dry).

Good luck!
Dale53

[Frozone]

Regarding your "wrinkles" - in almost every case of "wrinkles" is has been that the mould is not clean. I suggest another strong cleaning (I use hand detergent and a vigorous scrubbing with a toothbrush - rinse in VERY hot water and dry).

I thought I'd have to get it from Swede.

I think I'll try an old divers trick to keep a new mask from fogging.
Scrub the surfaces with old style tooth paste. Then I'll rinse as you describe.

I think I know why your mold is dropping oversize -
You have to clean it so well, you scrubbed .002" out! :-?

Thanks

[SwedeNelson]

Frozone

The next time you run your mould - get it up to temp.
and try to lightly smoke the cavities with a BIC lighter.
Have had some stubborn moulds that this works very
well with.

Swede Nelson

[Dale53]

I received a phone call from SwedeNelson today, and my mould is ON IT'S WAY (received a notice from the Post Office).

This should be a really good bullet for my 625's AND the new Ruger SS Bisley Convertible .45 Colt/.45 ACP. I can't think of a better combination.

I would like to publicly thank Swede for standing behind his product in a VERY positive way.

To both Jim and Swede I say THANK YOU!!

Dale53

[Dale53]

I neglected to report back here that my new mould has been received (several days ago) and it is casting within specs.

Thank you, Al (NOE) for excellent service and first rate moulds.

This one with get a work out in the coming months.

Thanks, again!
Dale53

[machinisttx]

Hmm, I need to check the bullets I cast with mine. I was busy running the mold so I had my cousin mic them for me and he got .002" out of round, with the small side near the part line. Diameter 90 degrees from part line was .454" and close to the part line it was .452. I'll have to run down with my mic and check them myself to make sure.

Edit: Apparently my cousin needs to check his mic. Just ran down and checked 30 or 40 bullets. I found them as much as .004" out of round and most had a taper from the base to the front driving band(with the front band being larger than the base). Even the best bullets I checked still had .002" out of round a few degrees off from the part line, but were more consistent around the rest of the diameter. I didn't write the numbers down and average them, but I would guess average size was probably .455"-.456". I also noticed that this mold was cranky about opening..the alignment pins and sprue plate were lubed with the supplied bullplate lube prior to starting, and the alignment pins were lubed again when it became cranky about opening without any apparent improvement.

For comparison, I checked a few bullets from the NOE 358429 I also cast with that session(same alloy) and found them to be .001" out of round and with a few tenths of taper. Diameter of them was .361". IIRC, the last time I cast with that mold they were .360 and also .001" out of round, but a different alloy was used. My alloy this time was WW's with enough tin added to give 2% total tin content.

[SwedeNelson]

machinisttx

It sounds like your mould has some problems.

I will send you a new mould and a box to ship
the old one back in.
.004 is way out of spec. for our moulds.

We offer a 100% money back guarantee if you
are not happy with our moulds. And we are
doing every thing we can to do it right.

Sorry for any inconvenience.
Swede Nelson

[machinisttx]

I haven't had time to size or lube yet, and very little lately for actual shooting, so it's not a big deal. I received your pm and will go check the mold to make sure I haven't missed anything before letting you spend the money on return shipping.:)

[Rico1950]

Shot the NOE 454424 bullet today. Sized to .4525 and lubed with TBA, CCI300 with 9.0/ Unique. From a rest an honest 2" @ 25 yards. Well pleased with this mold. Looking forward to the NOE 358009 for my .358 Winchester.

[machinisttx]

Update on mine: I finally had a chance to look at the mold again. There is a pretty large burr from the countersink on the rear alignment pin hole and some smaller burrs at the top of one of the halves. I will hopefully have a chance to deburr it and give it another try later this week. I'll report back on the results.

Edit: Deburred it today and ran about 20 lbs of alloy through it. The diameter now is .454"-.456", though some went up to .457" in one place or another, but boolits are significantly more consistent now than before. I'm also still getting about .001" taper from base to front driving band, some larger in the front and some larger in the back. I figured out the issue with it sticking closed too, after watching the handle hinge. The Lee handles have some slop that allows the handles to cam slightly on opening and closing, which allows the mold blocks to pull one way or the other and jams the alignment pins in their respective holes. I'm going to do some surgery on the handles and give the mold one last try before giving up.

[SwedeNelson]

Machinisttx

Keep me posted as to what you want to do.
We will get the problem worked out with you.

Swede Nelson

[machinisttx]

Replacement mold arrived Saturday. I cast with it today and measure anywhere from .452" to .456" on diameter. Oddly, the .452" measurement is on one side of the part line and the .456" is on the other side. 90 degrees from the part line they are consistently .454" to .455". This one sticks too, mostly on the rear, but occasionally it just doesn't want to open at all.

Both will be put in the return box and envelope tomorrow.

[SwedeNelson]

machinisttx

Would like to have your set of handle attached if you could.
Would send them back after our review. They are LEE handles?
But if you cant I would understand.

Will get a check off to you as soon as the moulds come back.

Sorry
Swede Nelson

[Ben]

There are a lot of things in life that I'm not so very certain about, ......but when you buy a mold from NOE, Al will see to it that you're happy with your mold.

A lot of these other mold makers would do well to sit up and take notice of how things " SHOULD " work.

Ben

[ddixie884]

I have seen the pics, and the labeling. I am in on 2 GBs as we speak, and am very impatient and expectant for a chance to see them. I have high hopes.