My Hensley & Gibbs 115 went south on me

[FISH4BUGS]

I have a 10 cavity #115 Hensley & Gibbs mould. It produces a 9mm 125 gr rn bb bullet with a rounded grease groove. Today, it would not cast worth beans. I had to throw back about half of the bullets. I cast with 5lbs ww to 1 lb linotype. 20lb Lee bottom pour furnace.
The bullets didn't fill out.......some were fine, but others were not. Serious wrinkling on some, even after bringing it up to temp. The last cavity (closest to the handle) was being sheared off and it looked like smearing but even when I waited 5 minutes it still sheared off the base and left flashing. The sprue needed dynamite to get it to work properly. I adjusted it so it could swing on its own weight.
I tried everything I could think of. I went up in temp. I went down in temp. I brass brushed the vent lines while it was hot. I let it cool and completely cleaned it again. I tightened the sprue tension, I loosened the sprue tension. It got really frustrating. I produced more bullets with my 4 cavity 358156 than with a 10 cavity H&G.
OK....I'll bite.....what am I doing wrong? What can I do to bring this mould back? I like the mould and I MUST have a high output with this for the 9mm subgun shooting. HELP!

[Dale53]

There could be one of several issues here. Contaminated metal first comes to mind (zinc?). Did you recently lube anything on the mould. Oil on any of the mould surfaces will migrate into the cavities. One way that has worked for me with smaller moulds is to put the closed mould (just the bottom) into the molten metal for as long as five minutes then brush the cavities with a "toothbrush" with fine brass bristles. This will really clean a mould. However, my pot is not big enough (20 lb RCBS) for a ten cavity mould.

Sometimes, not often, but more than once, I have just "quit" and tried again another day. For some unknown reason, things start working again. I normally go for the scientific, logical approach, but sometimes it appears to be "witchcraft"...

Dale53

[26Charlie]

I only have the one, but your results sound like oil or WD40 or something in the mould. Stuff like that gets into the pores of the metal. I had to do as described in this post http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6453 and my first cast left molten metal in the mould and sprue trough, which didn't harden until I did the wet rag trick. From then on everything was fine.

If any zinc got into the wheel weight metal you MAY have polluted metal, which doesn't cast well, but its unlikely compared to having something in the mould. If another mould is throwing good bullets, that didn't happen.

[trk]

As Dale hinted at:

Divide the problem in two, figure which half it is:

Is it the mould, or is it the alloy?

Try another known-good , similar mould, at the same time. If it casts well and the other does not, it is not the alloy, nor is it the temperature. Then go fix the mould, or mould temperature.

[FISH4BUGS]

As Dale hinted at:

Divide the problem in two, figure which half it is:

Is it the mould, or is it the alloy?

Try another known-good , similar mould, at the same time. If it casts well and the other does not, it is not the alloy, nor is it the temperature. Then go fix the mould, or mould temperature.
I did that. I was casting with my 4 cavity 358156 and switched to the H&G 109 cavity #115. I would think that the culprit was not the alloy.
What can I do to this mould to make it work right? It is quite capable of doing so, but damned if I know how to make it work again.

[Maven]

If the Lee mold casts well and the H & G doesn't, it's not the alloy. However, it may be the mold and/or the casting temperature. Here's what I'd try:
1) Scrub the mold with your favorite solvent, e.g, hot soapy water, denatured alcohol, mineral spirits, etc. and thoroughly dry it.

2) Bring the mold up to temp. via casting. (If you used soapy water, be doubly sure it's dry before doing this!). These bullets won't be good ones.

3) Smoke the cavities (and top & bottom of the sprue plate while you're at it) with wooden matches butane lighter. Resume casting. You should have perfect bullets after ~5 attempts. If not, raise the temp. of the alloy as some molds require a higher initial temperature to -> perfect bullets.

[FISH4BUGS]

If the Lee mold casts well and the H & G doesn't, it's not the alloy. .
It is a Lyman not a Lee. But your recommendations will be tried. Thank you. Perhaps smoking the mould might help it out. I did notice something however. When I was trying to remove a spot of lead from the mould by putting a propane torch to it until it melted, I noticed that the metal "sweated" some kind of stuff out of it. I wonder if the oil that protects the mould during non-use might have seeped into the pores of the metal. I wiped it off with a rag and moved on. Perhaps if I do that with the cavities that might improve the situation. I'll heat each cavity with a propoane torch and wipe it out wth a QTip.
I'll try it!
Thanks.....anyone have any other suggestions?

[Dale53]

Metal does not have "pores". However, there are microscopic irregularities that can be seen under magnification. It IS possible that something was there, I suppose. It is hard to fathom that it would still be there after casting. However, if the mould never really got hot (compared with the heat of the torch) there could be oil contamination. Your description makes me think it IS preservative contamination.

Scrub the mould with a good solvent that doesn't leave a film (I use Gun Scrubber or Brake Cleaner). Do it at least twice and wipe it with clean paper towels - really scrub it. Make sure it is "dry" and then try again. Should work, now.

Dale53

[David R]

Ditto to what Maven said. That is exactly how I treat a new mold. It might take a few castings, but it will clean out and work fine.

You could send it to me for free analysis. :)
David

[FISH4BUGS]

Ditto to what Maven said. That is exactly how I treat a new mold. It might take a few castings, but it will clean out and work fine.

You could send it to me for free analysis. :)
David
I might take you up on that offer. What are your qualifications for the analysis? Seriously, I would consider that if you realy think you could fix the mould. And besides, it WOULD require an extensive field testing procedcure, now wouldn't it? Something like 5,000 bullets in a casting session or three would be a minimum test for you, wouldn't you think?

[44man]

I don't know about all of you, but I NEVER put anything on my moulds for storage except Rapine mould prep. The secret is do not store them in a damp area where you need an oil on them.
Dry graphite or dry moly spray will protect them too. I never have to clean a mould and go right to casting. Even smoking them before putting them away works.
And yes, I do put it in the cavities.

[Bass Ackward]

Sounds like simple cavity contamination to me. That is why I have gone to Pledge. No degreasing, no harsh chemicals, just spray it in and leave it soak then wipe off. You have just prepared that mold for either use or storage. Life can't be simplier.

[Blacktail 8541]

Bass, when you use the pledge, do you get wrinkles for a long time when you start casting with the mould? That is a great ideal! Is it real good at rust prevention?

[9.3X62AL]

I'll pile on here......that "sweating" does sound like oil or other contamination surfacing. The Gun Scrubber/Brake Clean route should handle the problem for ya.

[Bass Ackward]

Bass, when you use the pledge, do you get wrinkles for a long time when you start casting with the mould? That is a great ideal! Is it real good at rust prevention?


BT,

If I start from cold, then it can take three or four pours. If I preheat the mold, then I have no problems right from the jump. So this says no. I have some guns that have been treated with Pledge for over 20 years. It does not draw or attract moisture like petroleum products will and it stays on longer out in the weather too. It won't last near as long as car polish which I will not use on my molds.

I have just started using Pledge on molds within the last 4 months and they are laying out in the basement in the open air. So far, so good. But I no longer need to smoke anything now. Or spray anything in the cavities. Strangely enough my molds are working closer to the same operating conditions. Thus lessoning their individual "personalities" during use. And I get better diameters as a result.

I even use it on my tools now as a result. One product with many uses. Would be nice for someone that has real problems from humidity to try it on an old mold and see what happens.

[44man]

I use Pledge on all of my cast iron tools, table saw, jointer, etc. Works good.

[Bman]

Just a quick note, Pledge is mostly silicone spray. Or at least contains silicones, according to the Q&A page on the web site. I'm thinking some silicone spray from the auto parts store would work just as well.

Silicone spray is what I use on my guns and about anything that most folks spray WD40 on. Prevents rust, dries completely and does not attract dirt. Overall good stuff.

[Bman]

Ok sorry?? I just found a site called household products data base and here is an excerpt from the msds sheet.

ngredients from MSDS/Label
Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent
Propane 000074-98-6 1-5
Isobutane 000075-28-5 1-5
Butane 000106-97-8 1-5
Water 007732-18-5 65-80
Polydimethylsiloxanes (Silicon oil) 063148-62-9 3-7
Hydrocarbons, C7-9 solvent 068920-06-9 5-10


Other than the propellents Pledge is mostly water, solvent and silicone oil.

[David R]

What are your qualifications for the analysis?

Been casting boolits since 1987. I even win some matches!


PM sent
David

[FISH4BUGS]

Been casting boolits since 1987. I even win some matches!
PM sent
David
OK.....that's good enough for me!