Help I have succumbed

[Ernest]

Well I did it! I bought one of those napalese martin Henry's. First the good news I managed to scrub and patch 150 years worth of crud out of the barrel and tada! a very good looking bore was exposed .

Now the bad news the outside of the gun literally looks like is was dipped in a mixture of shellac and dirt dried and then dipped and dried about fifteen times. I would like to take it apart but I don't think I can get the screws out with the chance of stripping them. :sad:

Any suggestions about how to start the clean up process that wont damage the wood.

[RMulhern]

Strip all the wood off.....soak the whole damn thing in diesel fuel overnite....remove the screws and bead-blast....then reblue!!:drinks:

[Ernest]

got to get those pesky skews loose first. If I can get it out of the stock I'v got a varsol tank. I'll soak it in that. I don't know what to do about the wood. I don't wnat tot damage it but I still would like to get it a little cleaner than it is.

[Boz330]

Been there done that. First any of the metal to metal screws use Kroil to loosen them up. Use a hollow ground screw driver that fits the slots as close as possible. I'm not sure which model you have but there is a pin that holds the fore stock on the MK2s. Be very careful driving this out because it will be rusted and you might damage the stock getting it out.
Now for the real tough one, the stock bolt. It will be rusted in the wood and almost impossible to get out. Here is what I did. I clamped the action in a padded vice and put penetrating oil in there. I had a giant screwdriver that fit the screw slot very tight. For 3 days every time I walked by the work bench I would insert the screwdriver and tap on the handle with a hammer then try and turn it in either direction. Eventually it broke loose, don't get in a hurry just keep worrying it. I have read of guys using a tire iron instead of a screwdriver. The problem is that the screw is rusted to the wood and you just have get it broke loose. One thought about the penetrating oil is that it might swell the wood and make it tighter. When my stock bolt finally did come out the sides were dry so I'm not sure if it did anything at all.
Good luck, they are a hoot to shoot once you get them cleaned up.
Here is a good reference site with lots of info;
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/

Bob

[JRW]

got to get those pesky skews loose first. If I can get it out of the stock I'v got a varsol tank. I'll soak it in that. I don't know what to do about the wood. I don't wnat tot damage it but I still would like to get it a little cleaner than it is.

On the older Milsurp rifles that have come through my hands, I have used Dawn dish liquid and jsut washed and washed and ... This will usually get all the old oils and dirt from the surface down about 1/16th inch. If you have a container, it could be soaked in the mixture for a bit. JM2CNTS.

[The Double D]

Earnest which rifle did you get? They are not all Martini Henry's. The Nepali cache includes genuine Martini Henry's, Nepali Gahendra's which are derivations of the Peabody, and Nepali Francottes.

RMulhern, these rifle are antiques and following you advice will increase their value a negative 50%. Yes cut it in half. Proper, careful and correct restoration with attention protecting and preserving the original patina of antriques will double or triple their value, or moe as well as not destroying and damaging the guns or removing their very important markings.

Boz, you have been away from Martini board to long. Here's something I picked up some where that came from some where else and post on BM.

I got this from I got this from www.nitroexpress.com and it came from some where else:

Machinist's Workshop Mag (tm)recently published some information on various penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you might appreciate this. the magazine reports they tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.

*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*
None ...................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... 238 pounds
PB Blaster ................ 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ............. 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ................ 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix..............53 pounds
The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.
For further information:
http://forums.thecarlounge.net/zerothread?id=4547049


I have been looking for an excuse to test Kramer Antique Improver. http://www.kramerize.com/. I have been put off from it because of its cost. I bit the bullet-lead bullet-and bought some to test on one of these "as is rifles". I sum it up this way;

1. It's expensive
2. It works
3. From now on, I will always have it on hand for restoraration
4. Given the results, it's really not all that expensive.

Before:

http://www.fototime.com/A00127D3A2EA63A/standard.jpg

After;

http://www.fototime.com/018AAD9108D66FD/standard.jpg

[Boz330]

Douglas, I actually have seen the acetone transmission fluid formula before but have never tried it. What sort of set me with Kroil was I was trying to get a barrel off of a Martini Enfield and it wouldn't budge. Put some Kroil on it and and refreshed periodically for a couple days. The barrel not only broke loose fairly easily but the threads were wet all the way to the shoulder. I WAS impressed.
On that Kramer restorer, is that for the wood or the metal and wood. I would still like to get some of the oil out of the stocks of my several Martinis.
I considered getting one of the as is rifles but I've got so many projects already in the fire it is hard to justify ANOTHER one.
BTW you know that 7MM barrel and small action I got from you several years ago? Vic turned that into a 7MM Waters for me and I hunted deer last year with it. I didn't get a shot but the case forming loads shot less than MOA at a 100yds. That is one of my projects, it still needs final forming and sanding and finish.

Bob

[Ernest]

Thank you so much for the thoughtful replies. We have gently cleaned the gun with it still together being very careful to not destroy any markings. It appears to be in very good shape. I've flushed the action out very well with varsol and and ballistol. Every thing has been treated to a dose of kroil. To me it looks quite nice with the very dark wood and the patina of age.

I'm thinking about just shooting it with the holy black with out disassembling it. [My first real foray into bp cart]. Then hunting with a bit this season.

Is that an acceptable idea or does it have to be taken apart and everything under the wood cleaned up???

[Boz330]

I would clean it up, but that is up to you. The first thing you are going to discover is that when you take it out in the sun it is going to sweat oil from the stock like you can't believe. Also usually there is some serious rust under the forearm that needs to be treated, even though the exposed metal looks good.
Of course if you want to shoot the gun just to get fired up about it that's fine it has been sitting for a 100 years like it is now and a little longer sure won't hurt it.

Bob

[Ernest]

. Also usually there is some serious rust under the forearm that needs to be treated, even though the exposed metal looks good.
Bob[/QUOTE] You were right on that one! But I finally got it apart now and will do a thorough clean up.

I shot it today. What a hoot. It shot three inch 3 shot groups @ 50 yrds with a 480 grain gas checked 1/20 bullet and 1 1/2 f Swiss. I think that is passable for a first try at black in a cartridge gun. thanks for the encouragement.
e

[Boz330]

Ernest,
That is a good start but the rifle is capable of that and better at a 100yd. To qualify though, those groups were with an improved sighting system. My eyes aren't what they used to be.:bigsmyl2:

Bob

[The Double D]

Ernest you still haven't told us which rifle you got. MH, Nepali Francotte or Gahendra.

Boz, Obviously it's a bum action, send it back and I'll refund your $20. :)

Kramers is for a wood and metal. The Clairifer pulled a lot of oil out of the stock. The restorer is a cleaning and maintenance product. I have did not get oil weepage after use.

[Ernest]

[QUOTE=The Double D;695513]Ernest you still haven't told us which rifle you got. MH, Nepali Francotte or Gahendra.

Boz, Obviously it's a bum action, send it back and I'll refund your $20. :)

Well I don't know exactly ? Pretty sure it is a MH. It is a short lever. Under the old varnish/dirt/cosmoline??? on the but stock is a very distint cartouch (spelling) It is a circle in a circle.

inside the outer circle at 11:00 o'clock is the letter R. @ 12:00 a crown@ 1:00 an M
@ 9:00 there is the word Enfield going counter clock wise.

in the inner circle there is WD and a mark over the letters

@ 6:00 out side the circle there is a II
under that is the number 1. ?

The action actually has only one mark and that is some unreadable very small stamp and under that is a II. ?


Any way I got it completely appart and cleaned it very well and now it is back together every thing except the stock. I am going to have to reinforce a couple of places with epoxy where it is dry rotted.

I haven't had this much fun with a rifle in a long time [smilie=s:

[Boz330]

Ernest,
It sounds like you have a MK II. If you go to the site that I linked above you can get a lot of info and the guys there are top notch and very helpful. Douglas is extremely knowledgeable and posts a lot on that board. There is also reloading info as well and they run a lot of group buys to get Martini related equipment. The down side, if you can call it that, is the Martinis in general can be very addictive. I developed an interest in them while working in South Africa back in the 80s but never acquired 1 until the Nepal Cache went on the market. Now I have 7 of them. 3 large actions and 4 small actions. Some of the guys on the British Forum make me look like a piker though. It can also lead to the acquisition of other British firearms, so be careful.

Bob

[Boz330]

Ernest you still haven't told us which rifle you got. MH, Nepali Francotte or Gahendra.

Boz, Obviously it's a bum action, send it back and I'll refund your $20. :)

Kramers is for a wood and metal. The Clairifer pulled a lot of oil out of the stock. The restorer is a cleaning and maintenance product. I have did not get oil weepage after use.

Douglas, not a chance!!!!!!!!!!!!:bigsmyl2:

I'll do a search on it, sounds like some good stuff. I still don't have all of the oil out of my MK II stock.

Bob

[Ernest]

Well cleaned , treated all the rust and I have it back together. unfortunately there is a 5//8" hole that is rotted about the pin that is closest to the actions. Any idea's about how to easily repair that. I was think about acra jell stained very dark to match the stock.

[Boz330]

Mine is the same way and I haven't fixed it yet. I have some round walnut plugs that I was going to glue in and then redrill the pin hole. That is closer to the way that they used to fix stocks back in the days that these were used.

Bob

[Beekeeper]

Ernest, boz,
I would help you with the repairs on the stock but the last time I posted anything about a MH i received PM's and e-mails about what real MH owners were going to do to me because I cleaned and rebuilt a Gahendra MH.
Seems I struck a sore spot with the experts and collectors because I cleaned 100 years of crud off of the weapon without their permission.
They are a cool weapon tho and I wish you luck and happy shooting.


Jim

[Boz330]

Ernest, boz,
I would help you with the repairs on the stock but the last time I posted anything about a MH i received PM's and e-mails about what real MH owners were going to do to me because I cleaned and rebuilt a Gahendra MH.
Seems I struck a sore spot with the experts and collectors because I cleaned 100 years of crud off of the weapon without their permission.
They are a cool weapon tho and I wish you luck and happy shooting.


Jim

I don't collect guns I shoot guns. You can clean a gun up with out ruining the collector value. If you sand it or reblue it, that may ruin the value, BUT, ultimately you bought it and paid for it and can do as you please with it. I have sporterized a number of surplus rifles over the years and apologize to no one for it. When they were dirt cheap and plentiful, and factory guns were an arm and a leg it only made sense. I don't do it anymore because I actually enjoy shooting them as they were built and they are worth almost as much as a factory gun. :shock:

Bob

[Ernest]

My plan is to cut some black walnut plugs that will fit on both sides. I will then glue them in and stain as best possible to match the rest of the stock. If I can get all this done in time I'm gong to do my deer hunting with it this year...:-)

[Boz330]

Ernest,
I was thinking the same thing, so yesterday I had a bunch of Milsurp rifles to test loads for and dug out the Martini Henry and some ammo that has been loaded for awhile. Figured I would empty the rounds and load up fresh loads for deer season. Well I had needed an ammo box sometime back and had dumped a bunch of loads in some cardboard boxes and lost the load info so it was a mixture of several different loads. The group in the picture was the last group that was shot and I "THINK" I know what the load was, but not sure.:groner: [smilie=b:
The 5 rounds were fired with no blow tubing or cleaning between shots and it was a BP load. These were fired at 100yds. As I said before the MH can turn in a good performance when you find the right combination, and of course the stars right.

Bob

[Ernest]

Wowy zowwe! you are ready to go! I hope I can get mine to do that well..