Wad diameter

[Hubertus]

I am slowly gathering components to start with the Holy Black (hopefully I will get the license soon). Similar to the paper patching thing - it is all your fault, only reading this forum creates such desires. :D

Reading here in the forum and some books I understand the wad to be an integral part of the loading procedure.
Checking the Buffalo Arms site I found some wad punches to strike with the hammer. Well ordering across the ocean is one thing, I checked a the local hardware store and they do have punches but only 10 mm and 12 mm, as expected because they are not specifically made for BPCR.
The 10 mm beeing 0.394" and the 12 mm beeing 0.472" I took the larger one and punched some milk carton.
The result was a nice wad which is of course a bit oversized to fit the neck of my 45-70. I can apply it with a little pressure. It cups a bit and goes down quite well.

Here comes the question, would this work? Or better to ask would it be dangerous to use this oversized queezed-in wad?

Another thing about the milk carton. I read a lot of people are using waxed paper from milk or juice carton. They sell a special carton here that has a layer of aluminum foil on the inside. Is there a reason besides the foil not rotting not to use this?

I know these are again stupid not even yet beginner questions, but please be patient with me.

Hubertus

[Dan Cash]

There is nothing dangerous about your slightly oversized wad, in fact, it might seal better. I also see no problem with the aluminum laminate milk carton wad. Another material which I use exclusively is weatherstripping felt. It is about 3/16 inch (2-3mm) thick and an inch (25mm) or so wide and should be available from a hardware store or a door and window firm. For some reason, the fouling is softer when this material is used.

For different size wad cutters, do a search for Gasket Punch. I used to have a site for a German firm that made excellent punches in a wide variety of sizes.

Good luck,
Dan

[powderburnerr]

my wads measure 460-61 you might try peening the end of the punch and see if you can shrink it aa little ... light taps on an anvil while rotating it. if you cannot find the right size,
The aluminum foil is abrasive and I would not use it.. dont need it if you have the reg stuff,.. tablet backing works also as does liners in boxes or anything about the right thickness ,try it both with and without , you may not need any,, it depends on how you load and shoot..

as to being dangerous it may not move properly , but I have never shot any that size so I cannot say....

[BPCR Bill]

Hubertus,
Personally I would shy away from the aluminum laminate wad material. I don't need any other metals in the bore. Wad diameter can and does affect accuracy, and the wad should be no bigger in diameter than the bullet by .002 to .003". A larger wad can contribute to case stretching to some degree as well as increased pressures. (Not to a dangerous degree, but increased pressures equal increased velocity, and that can contribute to leading in the bore, dependant on your alloy).
Dependant upon how much you shoot, you may find the hammer and punch method to be pretty tiresome. Buffalo Arms offers press mounted punches that make the job go quite quickly. I can do 1000 wads in an hour. With all the other steps I have to do to prepare match ammo, that's a plus.
I imagine you could go to an Automotive parts store and obtain gasket material for making wads. There is gasket material that is made of cork (pretty thick) or a vegetable fiber that works quite nicley and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I use card material that seperates layers of dog buiscuts in the box. Of course, I have two hunting dogs and I have more of that stuff than I'll use in a lifetime. That material is .030" and works splendidly. They punch out at .461". This is just my humble opinion, and welcome to the world of Black Powder Cartridge. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask, my friend!

Regards,
Bill

[Lead pot]

Hubertus

Pay for the postage one time and get the press mounted wad punch from Buffalo Arms.

You wont regret it when you start using it.

[montana_charlie]

I have the press-mounted punch that others are recommending, and agree that it is the 'best' choice, but...

Looking at your 12mm punch, is the internal hole straight, or tapered?

If it's tapered, the 10m punch would 'grow' if the bevel was ground higher on the body.
Do you estimate that bevel could be raised high enough to get to .460" before contacting the wad removal cutout?

How about using a dowel and 320-grit emery paper to polish out the inside of the 10mm punch?

I doubt that you have a dangerous situation with the .470" wads, but I just dislike things that 'don't fit right'.

CM

[Hubertus]

Thank you for all the prompt and helpful posts.

I will try to find an 11 mm one some place and open it up a little to get close to the .460" - since the peening operation with the 12 mm punch didn't work so well this morning :oops:.

I'll keep you posted.

Hubertus

[Southern Son]

Hubertus,
I don't know how expensive postage from US to Germany is, but it was well worth getting the press mounted one from Buffalo Arms sent to Australia. It makes perfect sized wads out of just about anything I feed it.

[Hubertus]

Thanks Southern Son and others for the encouragement.
Looking at the website, the tools of BA are looking really solid and I may order it later.
For now I am trying to get by on the low cost side, I know usually that means buying stuff twice and most probably spending more in the end, but I'll try and see how I like this BP thing...

As much as I am willing and eager to try starting the Black side of life, there are not many possibilities here. There is only the 50 or 100 meter range and most probably I will get very strange looks showing up at the range. Usually only hunters with bolt actions or Drillings. Last time everybody was quite curious about the Rolling Block and people were gathering behind me, and that was only with SP - imagine I fire up some Black :lol:

Hubertus

[montana_charlie]

since the peening operation with the 12 mm punch didn't work so well this morning :oops:.
Knowing something about the quality of German-made tools, I would have been surprised if you could successfully 'peen' the edge of that punch. The person who suggested it may have a bit too much experience with the 'China-Lite' implements available at Walmart...which masquerade as hand tools.

CM

[iron mule]

hey Hubertus some thing you may want to try that no one has mentioed here and it may work out pertty good//// try loading some rounds with no wads and see if they work out for you // i have a win 1885 in 38-55 that shoots it best groups with no wad used between the powder and boolit , when i tried a wad the groups opened up a least a 1 1/2 at 100 yds little less than 00 meters to you over there// try it may work out that this is what your rifle pefers
mule

[bubba.50]

for what it's worth, that's the way they were loaded way back when-no wads and they got along o.k.

[powderburnerr]

charlie ,I suggested it as a last resort and I do believe it can be done if done carefully , no matter who made it..... it is only 10 tho . another way is ro sharpen a case mouth and spin it through the material if you need them bad enough,, ......Dean

[Hubertus]

charlie ,I suggested it as a last resort and I do believe it can be done if done carefully , no matter who made it..... it is only 10 tho . another way is ro sharpen a case mouth and spin it through the material if you need them bad enough,, ......Dean

No problem here, I just tried it - well most probably I am a bit to clumsy and/or the material to strong. There was no other application for this punch in the house so I gave it a try. I am not giving up yet, maybe I can resharpen and reround it with a coned stone in the drill, we'll see.
The idea with the sharpened case came to my mind but the 45-70 cases are quite weak and it might be quite a chore to "drill-out" the wads. But again you are right - it only depends how desperate you need some.
The funny thing is one can buy carton wads via the internet here (0.03") about $12/1000, of the right size. I found this after buying the punch.Call me cheap but I'd rather buy something to make my own - in case it works of course ;-)

Thanks for the tips as well, I will try without, too.


I will keep you posted.
Hubertus

[4060MAY]

I have used oversize poly wads, and they stretched the cases, causing fatigue cracks where the wad is located in the case.
It would be better to not use a wad than an oversize one.IMHO
the normal wad size for .40 cal. is .410, I had Fred make a wad punch at .420 figuring it would seal better. lost about half my cases before I figured out the problem.
HTH

[Hubertus]

I have used oversize poly wads, and they stretched the cases, causing fatigue cracks where the wad is located in the case.
It would be better to not use a wad than an oversize one.IMHO
the normal wad size for .40 cal. is .410, I had Fred make a wad punch at .420 figuring it would seal better. lost about half my cases before I figured out the problem.
HTH

Thank you for that. Now I just threw away the wads I had made before.
I was really tempted to use those.
Certainly that is why I am asking those newbie questions here, to learn from others experience. It is a really good forum and tons of good info here.

Thanks for sharing
Hubertus