Micro-grove or Ballard rifling ?

[SmuvBoGa]

Gentlemen (ahem),

Thinking of a new "toy" a .357 Marlin lever action: so the question is go with the micro grove or pay extra for the Ballard rifling ? I would like to use the same cast ammo as I have for my Ruger(s) .357. Price is $510. vs. $622.
Thanks for the feed back. :wink:

[Marlin Junky]

All Ballard rifling over the last 60 years is not created equal; however, I've witnessed little frustration with so called Marlin "Ballard" rifling apposed to their MicroGroove rifling. Unfortunately, a lot of the frustration has been due to the stamping on the barrel than the actual design of the MicroGroove rifling. Marlin really should have been laser etching their MicroGrooved barrels, but the slight constriction resulting from the stamping doesn't appear to affect jacketed bullets much. A friend's MicroGrooved .357 began life shooting buckshot sized groups at 50 yards with commercial cast boolit, then he shot a bunch of jacketed bullets and ended up shooting 2" groups at 50 yards with my cast boolits propelled by mild loads.

MJ

[stubshaft]

I have an old 1894C in 357 with MG rifling. When sized properly (.358 - .359) i generally get 3/4" - 1" groups at 50 yds with cast boolits in the 160gr - 200gr range. I have found the constriction in Marlin barrels to be easily lapped out in both microgroove and ballard rifling and generally find it near the barrel band.

[S.R.Custom]

Microgroove rifling is a non-issue if you use a boollet design that puts the bearing surface right up against (or damned close to) the rifling.

[Three44s]

I'd look closer at the twist rate for the two rifling styles than whether it's Ballard or Micro rifled.

Three 44s

[6pt-sika]

I've spent the better part of the last 5 years addressing the Micro Groove cast thing !

And let me say it's worked well for me in the 30-30 , 356 WIN, 375 WIN , 357 MAg , 35 REM , 44 MAG , 444 Marlin and 45-70 !

Matter of fact I still have Marlin's in all the mentioned calibers except 357 , 35 and 44 with Micro barrels and shoot cast bullets exclusively in them ALL !

The ONLY thing I have found where the ballard has been a plus for me was when I wanted to shoot 400 grain bullets in the 444 Marlin . About max for me in a slower twist 444 Micro barrel has been 375 grains pushed kinda hard . To get anything decent from a 400 grainer in a 444 I had to go to Ballard rifled faster twist barrels . And I ain't sure that was because of the ballard rifling but more related to the 1-38 twist as opposed to the new faster 1-20 in the ballard barrels .

[smilie=w:

[EDK]

I'd be more concerned with whether I wanted an 18.5 inch round barrel versus a 20 in octagon. If it had a 24 inch octagon, it would be in lay-away or my safe!

Either style can have issues, but a little judicious measuring and tuning would pay off. Conventional wisdom for the rifles would be harder alloys, gas checks, sized to .360+, and 158 grains...or heavier AND load to higher pressure/velocity. (Since I load 357 for a micro groove 1894c and ballard rifled 1894 Cowboy rifles plus an assortment of revolvers, I tend to go generic for 95% of the loads.) NIGHT OWL ENTERPRISES 360 180 WFN is my newest mould, in PB and GC, and has shown promise so far.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[NickSS]

I have found the same thing with several Marlins I own. I get about the same accuracy with either rifling type in my rifles. In fact my 357 is a MG barrel and it shoots very well in deed as does my MG 45-70. I have had just as much trouble developing loads for them as my ballard rifled guns.

[SmuvBoGa]

Thank you all for the info - I have a "patch & ball" back ground & deep rifling can be a mixed blessing - amazing how MUCH patching those groves can hold but once you get a good patch you want to buy all the same patching you can.
I'm trying to understand why the .357 has grabbed my attention so - I got revolvers in 357 & have been loading down my 30-30 for plinking - maybe I should NOT buy the 357 & work on more moulds .... :twisted:

[StarMetal]

Thank you all for the info - I have a "patch & ball" back ground & deep rifling can be a mixed blessing - amazing how MUCH patching those groves can hold but once you get a good patch you want to buy all the same patching you can.
I'm trying to understand why the .357 has grabbed my attention so - I got revolvers in 357 & have been loading down my 30-30 for plinking - maybe I should NOT buy the 357 & work on more moulds .... :twisted:

The Ballard rifling is not deep rifling on the new Marlins by any means. In fact when talking to a big barrel maker we both conclude that Marlins Ballard rifling is buttoned in just like their Micro Groove. In fact I think of it as Micro Ballard. I really didn't think Marlin was going to tool up for deep cut rifling. I feel they have mislead the public. Yes I know they advertise it as deep cut rifling. I have a 45 cowboy with it and it's anything but deep.

Joe

[RLJ10X]

Micro Ballard.

Why didn't I think of that. I think SM is right on the money.

My Ballard barreled 357 Marlin is a fussy cast shooter. My Moriku/Win 92 in 44mag will shoot well with anything.

[SmuvBoGa]

RLJ10X -

Ok, just what i didn't want to hear - - What flavor is your load - I was thinking of using my 120 grain RN with GC ... maybe try it without the GC ... maybe try 6 or 7 g of Bulleye.

[Lutzy48]

I have a new Marlin in 357 with the ocatagon barrel. It does have thae ballard rifling and it does shoe well. Since I always shoot it off-hand, i can not tell you how well other the I get better groups of-hand with it that when I was bench/load testing for my Ruger Vaquero also in 357. I find the Lee 358RF158 works well for me.

[StarMetal]

Micro Ballard.

Why didn't I think of that. I think SM is right on the money.

My Ballard barreled 357 Marlin is a fussy cast shooter. My Moriku/Win 92 in 44mag will shoot well with anything.

My 45 Cowboy shoots very well. I've shot it with a variety of bullets, even ones meant for the 45acp, and it shot them all very well. I'm more then pleased with it. The bore cleans up real nice too and I'm happy about that because the doggone thing has a 24 inch barrel and that would be lots of cleaning if it fouled.

I'm basing my posts on my particular rifle with the Ballard rifling. Maybe it's different depths on other calibers.

Joe

[Newtire]

A guy I see at the range tells me that the 190 grain round nose flat point gas checked group buy .357 boolits I make for him are the most accurate bullets/boolits he has ever shot in his Marlin micro-groove. I size them .359". He now says that his S& W M27 likes them as well. I keep 1000 in my car for when I see him & he takes them off my hands every time.

I have a .444 micro-groove that shoots anything I feed it provided it is .430-.431. I shot some commercial .429 "silver-bullets" in it and found out what leading was all about.

I think it has to do with fit of the slug in the barrel in the case of my rifles of the micro-groove persuasion.

[405]

Not much to add except re-state from experience. Agree with the idea that the term "deep" rifling is over-used... mis-used a lot. There is no comparison between what the muzzleloader shooters call deep rifling and what one sees in modern type bore "deep" rifling. On the issue of the better 357 carbine type rifling. Crap shoot? I do know that ever since Marlin came out with the MG rifling I have never found one that wouldn't shoot a Jbullet extremely well. And for whatever reason, they also shoot 22 rimfire very well.

Also, I don't think mentioned in this thread yet, but I have found that the MG rifled bores to be very easy to clean. Don't ask me why or how... just an observation.

[SmuvBoGa]

FWIW (not much),

Yesterday I telephoned Chatt Tenn, Dalton, Ga, Chattsworth, Ga, Bass Pro Shop, Atlanta, & Oudtoor Adventure, Atlanta - no marlin 357 to be had ... :-(

So, thank you all for the information, maybe I didn't want "no stinking gun" :holysheep

JohnMc

[dsmjon]

FWIW (not much),

Yesterday I telephoned Chatt Tenn, Dalton, Ga, Chattsworth, Ga, Bass Pro Shop, Atlanta, & Oudtoor Adventure, Atlanta - no marlin 357 to be had ... :-(

So, thank you all for the information, maybe I didn't want "no stinking gun" :holysheep

JohnMc

I *believe* I know of one FS in NC, if you don't mind a used rifle. I'll go put my hands on it if it's still there if you'd like. Just lemme know.

[Lead Fred]

I have one of each.

Micro for FTX

Ballard for cast

[O.S.O.K.]

My microgroove Marlins shoot cast just fine. As already mentioned just size .001 or .002" over bore size to force a good grip on the rifling and load with enough pressure to obturate the bullet's base.

I also have a couple of ballard rifled Marlins and I will say that they are more forgiving than the microgroove models but that's about it.

:drinks:

[SmuvBoGa]

DSMJON,

Maybe interested - a few questoins if I may - what is the asking price (+/-)? where in NC ? Common sence is saying no - BUT it might be a great deal & not too far to drive ...

JohnMc

[EDK]

There were plenty of 357 MARLINS over on gunbroker, marlinowners and sassnet lately. A 24 inch was around $525, IIRC, on gunbroker a day or two ago....that's a great deal.

You want something rare or discontinued, you go to the internet auctions on a daily basis AND have your wallet ready if you see what you want with a BUY NOW! There's some bargains to be had....BUT if you snooze, you lose.

:redneck::cbpour::Fire:

[SmuvBoGa]

Not a big issue, not an issue at all, just had a day off, cash in the pocket & thought that a Marlin .357 would be fun to shoot. Have not made it into the cowboy shooting - stuck along in the 1861 - 65 for my main toys & casting. Was trying casting for my 30-06 & thought how cute a boolit - a dinky .309 - the .544's & .577's cast boolits were laughing at the little thing. Also trying casting for my Ruger .357.
I am surprised at how difficult it is to find one "in driving distance" - wounder if Marlin is making them or just selling them out ?
I AM better off keeping my $600. in my pocket - just :violin:

Keep your powder dry & watch for the yank supply trains (joke)

JohnMc

[looseprojectile]

If you just want a good shooting rifle that will shoot the same ammo as a Ruger hand gun get a Rossi / Puma / Italian 92 Wincheater clone.
I would never again go through the disapointment / frustration of a Marlin slow twist, oversize groove gun in either Ballard or Micro Groove. Ranch Dog made a business of selling special boolits for Marlins.
I could never understand how Marlin arrived at their specifications which are all wrong. Just MHO. Crikey, you would think even Mossberg would jump in there and make a good 94 Marlin copy. I now am in deep cover and have my flak vest on.

Life is good

[SmuvBoGa]

So the Rossi's are good ? I have had a few questions about Rossi pistols & .357 they looked a bit sloppy, NOT real bad but "off a bit". I like Marlin just because it is USA made (not that it REALLY amounts to anything) & a STRONG frame (say hello Ruger). I have a 20 yr old .336 that I can take apart in my sleep. I did look at the internet price on other brand 357 levers & the low end were a few $$ less that the marlin - I can live with extra $ in my pocket.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Just a little imput....not on levers , but on Rossi , I bought 2 of their DA 44 special revolvers a few years ago...Pure Junk, out of time, would not shoot half the time, I gave one to my brother before I shot mine and he ask if I was trying to kill him....Rossi gave me the run around , and I took both of them and cut them up...I would not even give them to anyone else.

The rest of their products may be first rate, but I will never buy another....Just my humble opion .

[finishman2000]

I really enjoy my Rossi in .357 It is an older one and the more I shoot it the better it is. Never a bit of trouble.
I also just sent in my Marlin in 44 mag to be rebarreled. I wanted the micro gone since i bought a Master Caster and now popin boolits out like crazy.